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So many styles...which is the best?Hard to say!

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  • #16
    the only advantage a grappler has in the octagon/ring is the fact that they are in a closed area.

    grappling is a huge threat to stand up fighters in and out of the ring. espcially gung fu fighters because of the fact that once our connection with the ground is gone, we are screwed. in the real world, if your lucky to be outside while in a confrontation, then you can dodge a shoot all day, but that is nothing, a grappler doesnt have to shoot to grab you, and once they get in the clinch its over unless you know how to defend against them.

    most NHB fighters are skilled in standup moreso then in grappling, well i should say the good ones. all the best gravitate towards standup fighting like muy thai, because its very good and very easy to train. these well rounded fighters nowadays outclass the grapplers of old like the gracies or the shoot fighters.

    to say the octagon favors grapplers because of the slippery floor is ridiculous. for one you can wear shoes, and two its not that slippery, many many fighters avoid the shoot, most times when people get taken down its from the clinch, just like in the "real world". as for the gloves people get cut in NHB more then any other sport and to act like thats a severe hindrance to your abilitys is laughable, because obviously if thats a concern you dont have any skills, they are all in your mind, lolo
    "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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    • #17
      maestro's completely right (notwithstanding the "you're obviously weak" bullshit). it's funny you bring this up because i was just watching a series of UFC fights on cable last night for lack of sleep... and all three ended in a knockout, including the heavyweight world champion bout. and only one out of the 6 fighters trained in BJJ... namely, the UFC world champion that got his ass handed to him, ricco rodriguez.

      in fact, that was the only fight of the three that went to the ground at all; and they were back on their feet in 10 or 15 seconds every time. so it's safe to say the golden days of BJJ are over. i'm sure it will ride its initial popularity for a while longer though, in terms of gaining students for schools.

      the gloves are thin and basically cover only the knuckles. they provide a huge advantage for the striker because they protect the hands from being broken, something that happens constantly in "real" fights. with the power these apes put into their punches, an inch of rubber isn't gonna help the punchee one bit.

      it's also interesting that maestro brings up the clinch, because i've always interpreted a lot of gongfu techniques as being useful in breaking up a clinch without going to the ground, especially the dropping-and-twisting sort. which would explain the need for a strong horse stance. of course, that hardly makes up for a complete lack of ground skills.
      Last edited by zachsan; 06-13-2005, 07:08 PM.

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      • #18
        I was sparring (boxing and grappling freeplay seperately, not no holds barred) recently at an open mat in a school in the LBC which teaches Xingyi, Bagua, and BJJ. That was interesting. Personnally I've always been at a disadvantage grappling against a skilled bjj exponent unless they wore a ge. But that's cause my grappling training came from competitive judo. Frankly I'm almost useless on the ground if I can't hold onto the guy's shirt.

        But aside from learning that my blocking isn't that great, I learned a lot and performed surprisingly well in fists only sparring against one of the xingyi students (he had only been doing xingyi for 2 years, but used to teach some korean style, something that started with tang).

        Frankly, what he was doing looked like boxing more than xingyi, but the only thing I know about xingyi is that it uses five element theory extensively. But another odd fact was that he seemed very surprised that I never trained Muay Thai, because apparently my fighting looks like mt.

        For someone who was always waiting for me to lead and countering, he had severe trouble with a few basic attacks of mine, one a simple rear cross high feint to cover a low jab to the ribs, and the other two were wing chun techniques, the pak punch and bong sao to lop punch. Both performed admirably well, especially considering that my wing chun sucks and I haven't practiced more than 30 minutes in the past 3 months.

        Just some personal experience I thought I'd share.

        And if I might say, Mortal I always seem to agree with you when we aren't talking about politics. Funny how that works.
        Show me a man who has forgotten words, so that I can have a word with him.

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        • #19
          On a side note, I'd say I threw that high rear feint to cover the low lead to the ribs at least 50 times. And it landed more than 60% of the time I threw it. It was really frustrating the hell out of my opponent, he never really caught on just started backing out of range every time I threw a high left. But it still landed many times even when he knew exactly what was coming. Beautiful simplicity.

          Whats that saying? Look to the east punch to the west.
          Show me a man who has forgotten words, so that I can have a word with him.

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          • #20
            Great input, everybody.
            Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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            • #21
              "And if I might say, Mortal I always seem to agree with you when we aren't talking about politics. Funny how that works."

              That is why they say never discuss politics with friends.

              lol Nice to know someone does.

              Your sparring experiance sounds well rounded. I wish we had some xingyi guys to spar.

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              • #22
                yeah, I mean, long ago I knew a lad who had such a crappy life that it filled him with an ample amount of rage. he got into fights practically everyday. I fought him. The thing is, you couldn't really ever beat the kid cause he always got up. He would spas out again and again until he beat the living crap out of you, you conceded out of sheer exhaustion, or just got bored. There was no bell... he would just keep coming and coming. Actually he was quite a hand full and later got killed when breaking into a house.. But, i think the point I'm trying to make kind of parallels something i once read by bruce lee, that is, if a person wants badly enough to rip off your nose, he's going to do just that.
                I think if someone knows how to take someone down and control them, then they well keep the pain on until they give up. But I think the best thing to do is #1 not get into a fight to begin with or #2 leave the situation. If someone gets attacked by four people with knives can they win? Maybe, but it be difficult. They would have to be really good.

                I saw a news story about these kids doing this no holds barred fighting. There were these two girls fighting. They were swinging there arms around wildly. I think this was an untrained person. That is without any training that is what most people are likely to do. I think by watching video clips of real life you can see what is real life.

                Personally, I have long arms and wearing pants doesn't favor kicks.
                "If you want pure self-defense buy a can of mace." Grandmaster Villari (I think that is it).

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                • #23
                  I have sooo many issues with you boys whole arguements! Really sick though, so going home to die for a day or 2 or and I'll come back to it.


                  Chat soon and enjoy your peace

                  Blooming tianshi

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                  • #24
                    I love the way you guys write...But what do you think of Kung Fu vs Muay Thai,San Shou vs Muay Thai,taekwando...all that in the ring,like real men with rules and no treachery,no guns and one to one...
                    Which style do you like the most(even if we all have different views)or if you had to go to the ring tomorrow,which style would you choose to be a master of?
                    The East? The West?

                    Men and Women, that's all...

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                    • #25
                      if i had to go to the ring tomorrow, i would choose to master the style of bullshitting-an-excuse-to-get-me-the-hell-out-of-that-ring.

                      but in all seriousness, the definitive and unequivocal answer is: chewbacca style.

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                      • #26
                        hahahaha alright,i see,interesting!Which weed do you actually smoke?I want some.
                        The East? The West?

                        Men and Women, that's all...

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                        • #27
                          chewbacca weed.

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                          • #28
                            Star wars fan ha???? Who'd 've guessed ...........


                            anyway.......... I thinkthe point here is that whatever actual art you practice, gongfu is a whole other extraeneous ( though somewhat related for a lovely monday morning chan paradox) concept . Gongfu is gongfu ...........the art you get your apps from to pull it off is negotiable. Fighting proficiency ( like defence proficiency) is somewhere is the midst of understanding both. .............
                            Cheers and go meditate on it ..........


                            Blooming Lotus

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                            • #29
                              "I love the way you guys write...But what do you think of Kung Fu vs Muay Thai,San Shou vs Muay Thai,taekwando...all that in the ring,like real men with rules and no treachery,no guns and one to one...
                              Which style do you like the most(even if we all have different views)or if you had to go to the ring tomorrow,which style would you choose to be a master of?"

                              if u wanna talk sport, imo alot of the K-1 fighters would whop most of the san shou guys in a heartbeat..i heard something about cung le in K-1 but i cant confirm or care enough to confirm that, i hate cung le..but anyway the K-1 fighters are tough, san shou is more i throw u, u throw me, a couple punches and kicks point type stuff..i rarely see k os, and even when i do they are whack

                              NHB is the best imo, you wont find better fighters all around

                              the point is comp fighting doesnt really prove or disprove anything other then what masters in the past have been emphasiseing for centurys.
                              "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                              • #30
                                Lol.......you only hate Cung Le 'cause he's so pretty and decorated!!!!!!!!!!!

                                Anyway, k1 is like a whole new paramter and sport gongfu is not always anything like street defence proficiency. I had asome boys elsewere question me on some buijinkan stuff and here's my reply. Hope it helps............


                                http://www.martialartsplanet.com/for...n/post_old.gif Today, 10:43 AM
                                http://www.martialartsplanet.com/for...rs/catface.gifBlooming Lotus http://www.martialartsplanet.com/for...ser_online.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_539103", true);
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                                Firstly , for "everyone else " having more knowledge and experience, I think that the following will just speak for itself.

                                ......and yes, that post was written midst 3-day drinking binge between training and business, but you'll just have to spank me and send to me hell http://www.martialartsplanet.com/for...s/rolleyes.gif .

                                Regardless though, I did actually consider your request the other night to provide you with names and personal contacts to harangue, and I've conservatively decided that to protect both my own individual privacy and to prevent that particular sensei being unduly harrassed - I will not be provding you with those details.

                                However, the information should be available from your own local bujinkan senseis ( if you're not one yourself been priviliged to previously study and train at the soke's Japanese school branch ) .

                                On the bujinkan / internal ma connection though, I think that when you understand 2 particular important subtlities of bujinkan and ninjutsu in general ( that so many just don't and never do ) in that A. the pressure point striking currilculum app techs relate to and are directly dependant on meridian existance, acknowledgement and utilisation ( though termed and phrased in Japanese and bujinkan specific language ) , and that B. the "zen" tone and qi ( ki ) cultivation methods utilised by bujinkan including their awareness development drills and exercise sets and form sets etc, are directly comparative and translatable to buddhism's "satori " cultivation techniques ( personally poiniant to my own grasshopper understanings btw http://www.martialartsplanet.com/for...ilies/wink.gif http://www.martialartsplanet.com/for...lies/smile.gif ) and again found in Japanese / bujinkan terminology , then it becomes extremely and blatantly clear A. on what parameters these MAs meet and that B. the internal aspects of of bujinkan is as important to proficiency as it is to understand and acknowledge under any other system.
                                Additionally and imo, the discovery of these exact relationships and these types of conceptual consistencies is exactly what the whole cross branch study / training trip is all about . At the end of the day, it comes down to those that get it and those that don't- and respectively interperate and play and train their arts and life - choice modal operandi accordingly.

                                Cheers, be well and feel free to conduct your own research before nxt pretending you know about what you're speaking or are being in anyway mature or objective. http://www.martialartsplanet.com/for...ilies/wink.gif http://www.martialartsplanet.com/for...ilies/cool.gif

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