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  • #16
    Sorry Lotus, I didn't mean to anger you, I was merely trying to answer your question and give an opinion. In actual fact I have a degree in Genetics and have been working in that field for about six years (both in the UK and Hong Kong), so you can imagine I have actually read many, many books on the subject of RNA/DNA and virus. My work requires me to read journals (and write for them too) to keep up to date with the field. Admitedly my knowledge of Hepatitis is less than other viruses such as HIV, AIV, FMDV, etc but ultimately viruses and RNA behave in similar ways. So I do infact have at least 'half a clue'.

    I answered your question, without malice, based on the information you gave and based on the knowledge of working with RNA/DNA practically everyday. If I wasn't confident of the information I gave, I simply wouldn't have wasted time writting it. But I do apologise for getting you back up, it was not my intent.

    If you manage to track down some papers relating to other scientists pursuing your idea (or similar) I would love to read them, perhaps their explanation will show me how this can work without stopping the cellular functions. Try searching PubMed for scientific publications (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed), if nothing else it may just help in your own research.

    R

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    • #17
      i much prefer "i was trying to encourage you, you psycho." but to each his own.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Shaolin Science
        Sorry Lotus, I didn't mean to anger you, I was merely trying to answer your question and give an opinion. In actual fact I have a degree in Genetics and have been working in that field for about six years (both in the UK and Hong Kong), so you can imagine I have actually read many, many books on the subject of RNA/DNA and virus. My work requires me to read journals (and write for them too) to keep up to date with the field. Admitedly my knowledge of Hepatitis is less than other viruses such as HIV, AIV, FMDV, etc but ultimately viruses and RNA behave in similar ways. So I do infact have at least 'half a clue'.

        I answered your question, without malice, based on the information you gave and based on the knowledge of working with RNA/DNA practically everyday. If I wasn't confident of the information I gave, I simply wouldn't have wasted time writting it. But I do apologise for getting you back up, it was not my intent.

        If you manage to track down some papers relating to other scientists pursuing your idea (or similar) I would love to read them, perhaps their explanation will show me how this can work without stopping the cellular functions. Try searching PubMed for scientific publications (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed), if nothing else it may just help in your own research.

        R
        considering what you said about rna being only a viral production order and indicatve of virus even in single strandedbness, I'm sorry Mr.Science man, but I just can't buy. Talk sense and I'll happily reply.

        cheers and happy rehashing

        Blooming Lotus

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        • #19
          Originally posted by doc
          I gotta start selling shit like that on this website, and finally, make some money.

          The crap that people try to pull on others. BL, I can't believe that you even bother reading that shit.


          Beats ignorance and arrogance I guess. ( shrug)

          cheers

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          • #20
            I never said RNA was only a viral production order, at least that's not was I meant to imply. Viral RNA tends to be short and only contains the messages it needs to survive (as opposed to e.g. human DNA which contains lots of useless sequences). Contained in the viral genome will be messages to create the protein coat, other proteins it needs and messages for what the virus does, i.e. replicating. Since the second strand will be a compliment of the first, having one of the strands will still constitute a viral genome and if detectable in the cell will be regarded as an infected cell. Anyway, no more rehashing.

            I was thinking about your cure though, and you may want to look at something called siRNA (I think it stands for short interfering RNA). This is a relatively new technology where a short stretch or RNA is sythesised complimentary to the target RNA. When it binds together it has a signal which marks it out for destruction. At the moment this is mainly used in research for silencing genes and assessing the effect but many people are looking into therapeutic applications too and it might be applicable to what you're after. As long as the sequence used is unique and specific to the virus it will have no effect on the host RNA production/function.

            I am trying to encourage you by the way too.

            R

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            • #21
              yeah, you're encouraging her all right... The question is how...
              ZhongwenMovies.com

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Shaolin Science
                .......... and you will find that the RNA in the live infectious virus is single stranded. RNA by its nature tends to want to be single stranded all the time. So stopping formation of the double strand if it were possible would have to be constant to stop replication however the viral RNA would still produce it's proteins and the still viral and infectious RNA would still be present,
                R
                This is exactly the Fwit comment I was talking about. You obviously have your rnas confused with your dnas and strands confused with their morphs. I can'r even pretend I'm taking you half seriously nor your submission to accept you as learned in the field.
                ..........moving on though...........

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                • #23
                  Yes, and the saga continues. I feel all warm and funny inside.
                  ZhongwenMovies.com

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                  • #24
                    Your ignorance is encourangement enough............. :0 :0

                    Originally posted by Shaolin Science
                    I never said RNA was only a viral production order, at least that's not was I meant to imply. Viral RNA tends to be short and only contains the messages it needs to survive (as opposed to e.g. human DNA which contains lots of useless sequences). Contained in the viral genome will be messages to create the protein coat, other proteins it needs and messages for what the virus does, i.e. replicating. Since the second strand will be a compliment of the first, having one of the strands will still constitute a viral genome and if detectable in the cell will be regarded as an infected cell. Anyway, no more rehashing.

                    I was thinking about your cure though, and you may want to look at something called siRNA (I think it stands for short interfering RNA). This is a relatively new technology where a short stretch or RNA is sythesised complimentary to the target RNA. When it binds together it has a signal which marks it out for destruction. At the moment this is mainly used in research for silencing genes and assessing the effect but many people are looking into therapeutic applications too and it might be applicable to what you're after. As long as the sequence used is unique and specific to the virus it will have no effect on the host RNA production/function.

                    I am trying to encourage you by the way too.

                    R
                    lol............. thx !

                    Actually, as I 've said before rna production is a neccessary function we have in our dna sequencing and helps constitue a healthy cell. Until you can talk to me like you accept that, you're a dribbling wank! ( as classy as that judgement is ) . On the order to protein coat, I can hear you have no idea about that either. If you truly are studying this area yourself, goddammed how I pitty your professor!!!!!!!!!!!

                    BL
                    Last edited by blooming tianshi lotus; 06-20-2005, 02:00 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Actually I think you are the one who is misunderstanding, I never said RNA was only a viral thing, in fact, the reason I said your cure wouldn't work was because it would shut down the normal healthy cell functions which require the use of cellular RNA. This was why I proposed a more specific targeting of the virus rather than just the RNA in general. And where do you think the viral coat comes from if the order isn't in the RNA? Do you think these things are just sitting around in the cell? For someone so ready give abuse about not understanding it seems ironic that you are the one not reading what I am saying properly.

                      Your posts are pretty irritating, I would have thought as a martial artist and budding scientist you would have more of a tollerance and open mind. Surely it would be more productive to discuss and try to elucidate where either of us are mistaken, not simply have a view and abuse anyone who fails to agree with it in it's entirety.

                      To be honest if I'm wrong, it really has no effect on me, but if I'm right then it messes up your 'cure' so why should I care? Perhaps you should try reading more basic molecular biology and virology books rather than the frankly basic web sites you seem to be looking at to base your entire theory on. I'm reminded of an old school mate who suggested curing HIV by simply removing all the blood from the infected person and replacing it with heathy blood. Your ignorance is on a par!!

                      Fun as it has been entering into this high level debate, with as much swearing and name calling as goes on at any of the big scientific meetings, I think it's time to call it a day. I have more important things to be doing... like dribbling furiously while I crack one off!

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                      • #26
                        I am trying to encourage you by the way too.
                        you psycho. you left out the you psycho. purely voluntary, but the best part, in my opinion.

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                        • #27
                          buddhist scientist ???? ............lol............

                          Originally posted by Shaolin Science
                          Actually I think you are the one who is misunderstanding, I never said RNA was only a viral thing, in fact, the reason I said your cure wouldn't work was because it would shut down the normal healthy cell functions which require the use of cellular RNA. This was why I proposed a more specific targeting of the virus rather than just the RNA in general. And where do you think the viral coat comes from if the order isn't in the RNA? Do you think these things are just sitting around in the cell? For someone so ready give abuse about not understanding it seems ironic that you are the one not reading what I am saying properly.

                          Your posts are pretty irritating, I would have thought as a martial artist and budding scientist you would have more of a tollerance and open mind. Surely it would be more productive to discuss and try to elucidate where either of us are mistaken, not simply have a view and abuse anyone who fails to agree with it in it's entirety.

                          To be honest if I'm wrong, it really has no effect on me ( you're not a human with same vulnerablities and potential to benifit from the solution !!!!!!!????? @ sweet ignorance then I guess ! ) , but if I'm right then it messes up your 'cure' so why should I care? Perhaps you should try reading more basic molecular biology and virology books rather than the frankly basic web sites you seem to be looking at to base your entire theory on. I'm reminded of an old school mate who suggested curing HIV by simply removing all the blood from the infected person and replacing it with heathy blood. Your ignorance is on a par!!

                          Fun as it has been entering into this high level debate, with as much swearing and name calling as goes on at any of the big scientific meetings, I think it's time to call it a day. I have more important things to be doing... like dribbling furiously while I crack one off!

                          You're right. You're definately out of your league on it and while it's been sweet of you to try, it gets hard when you miss the point doesn't it??? .............. I think you'll actually find it's been your own posts that have been irritating but you're right. I should take a more open view , be more generous with your lack of perspective and appreciate your effort! ...............and once I got over the fact that you are more than likely full of your own embellished ego, very little information and an endearing desire to talk with me about this despite those things, that's exactly what I did for myself. I actually spoke again to my surgical / anesthetic nurse come med ass. union member about siRNA and this morning I did a very quick google on it ( and yes, thx to you okay ).
                          From what I gather about their progress on it so far though , they are actually using this concept of siRNA treatment but they're still imo just slightly off the mark in terms of erradicting viral command from it's crux in our bodies indefinately and in terms of all virus and throughout our lives. It does sound half fantastical but if you check this out http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=e...treatment&meta=
                          it's actually exactly where they're at.
                          I say this about it's lack of viabilty though because like yourself ( after however many cracks at sense you needed to reach the logic) they are promting researching and using drugs on siRNA parameters with the goal of targeting the proteinic coating.
                          I understand the logic and merit of doing this, but I also understand that catabolism under the guidelinse I've already described numerous times here and elsewhere myself , does exactly the same thing and with no side effect bar daily bouts of diahorea for a short period ( that can be timed and scheduled for ) , and t consideration of electrolotye balance ( negated by 750 - 1.5 lt water of a late pm, milk as a 6 x daily dose and morning orange ( for spleen function , potasium intake , iron absorbtion and oxygen uptake to aide elimination ).
                          As you can see from this link http://www.in-pharmatechnologist.com...facturing-deal
                          the article states that while this a very definate and viable treatment for control and maintance, patients still suffer the disease and it does not erradicate the body's dna command to produce the double strand so much as control it post this order sequence.

                          I also understand what you say , that by removal of that particular dna sequence relating to the order to produce RNA , would have adverse effect in that the necc RNA production order is ommitted. That's why I'm also saying that that would only work if we could simultaenously ( even on a one off basis ) transplant that sequence from an extraeneous source.
                          This is what I've been discussing with my med friend and association members and this is the information he's trying to find for me. Apparently, other med research ppl worldwide have caught wind of the same concept potential themselves and are persuing new fields of research to facilitate it.
                          I think that the issue here lays with isolating the sequence relating to RNA split order and very else. He assures me they're onto it though and no doubt I'll continue to look into myself until I find a way to do it.
                          The important thing though is that the idea is in the med industry conciousness and being worked to resoloution.
                          I think that's extremely huge myself for all of us as a human society and is beyond doubt a very cool indication of things to come in everything from immediate pains and sufferances to lifestyle and mortality and so on.
                          I'm excited anyway !


                          cheers and thx for playing .

                          BL






                          Btw : if the frag units are kept below 15 unts per frag, the incubation and cellular spread doesn't happen at all!

                          cheers

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                          • #28
                            Do you think these things are just sitting around in the cell?
                            This question is just oddly whimsical.
                            ZhongwenMovies.com

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                            • #29
                              You're right BL, perhaps I was rather rash in saying it wouldn't effect me, on the larger scale of things of course you are right, this type of stuff can have and affect on all of us.

                              The medical info you provide is interesting, I tend to look at these things from a biological perspective, so I bow to your wisdom over that. I happened to be reading a textbook today about viruses and their modes of infection, treatments etc (I would post the text but I couldn't find time to photocopy and retype it (the book was too huge to bring home)) Anyway the gist of it was that Hepatitis C is single stranded positive strand RNA virus with one large open reading frame and two untranslated regions flanking this. It is thought that one of these UTR's has a region which autonomously attracts the ribosomes in the cell to initiate translation (i.e make the protein from the open reading frame). This large protein is then cleaved into small active units, some of which form the coat of the new virus and others which initiate the creation of the negative strand RNA. The negative strand then acts as the template to create the positive strand which will be put into the new viruses. (I will find the reference to post if you don't belive me)

                              Point is, for this particular virus DNA has nothing to do with the replication so you should rule this out as a target. Also despite massive mutation from the lack of proofreading of the proteins involved in replication, the UTR is highly conserved in functional viruses suggesting that this would be the best target.

                              I actually hadn't intended to continue with this, but not only did this book confirm what I expected from other viruses, I do actually have a desire to encourage you. (psycho or not). And regardess of what you may think my ego is actually rather small this just happens to be an area I know a little about and wanted to help.

                              I'm glad the medical industry is working along the same tracks and hopefully some treatment will come eventually. I wish you all the best too, I hope you can get past my dribbling and we can kiss and make up!!!

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                              • #30
                                For Chrissakes shaolin science ! Any virus at ALL is only defined by having a duplicated RNA strand . I want to believe you , but your logic just makes it hard!


                                As for Zachsan , you can go to hell ok!! FYI , it is me who has had harsher strained of the 15 the liver disease ( equating to a cancer type virus ) for going on 15 yrs , and it is my own life ( amongst many many others ..and I've been dying or surving for yrs so don't give it a thought just quietly ) that depends on my research. I've neen sick as a mofo for 6 weeks and made peace with death over and over through every godammed excruciatng day of painful zen detatchment insight ........

                                Anyway, I spoke to my Aus med union friend again last night about the siRNA treatment and research and he tells me that a professor Morris he used to work with at St.George Hospital in Sydney Aust, did a similar thing with kryo - micro cellular DNA treatment , but because of the local conventialist vote within the system , ( though his research subjects all made full recovery from multi - tumored orgns and he saved patients with more than 2 godammed thirds of their liver missing ( where we're logically meant've died btw ) ) and the pharmecuetical industry bitch about the lost revenue , and lft wingd practioners to support the treatment and justify the cost of making and running the equipment , it never went beyond that. Same logic but he uses evasive surgery based on cold , I 'm thinking a nano - technoloy based piece of equipment based on multi - consistently spaced - radio- lasers at particular frequency and heat will achieve the same thing ( with a ribavirin 6 week pre-op styled control procedure ( high protein chemical catabolism regime will do too ) prep instruction to avoid the disease command comming back around in the blood stream while the order is fried out of the sequence.)

                                AS it turns out, no one gives 2 ****s about curing ppl in earnest and all it comes down to is which $$$ industries pocket you piss in at what time and how hard. Crux is unfortunately, unless you can get on reasearch patient trial list , you 're likely up shit creek with a prayer and no-one to justify it.


                                Kinda sick to **** of being in pain myself and just drinking myself stupid for a days, so if I'm absent, that'll be why.

                                cheers

                                Blooming tianshi

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