Muscles and strenght for fighting efficiency(not for sowing off on the beach!)

[flow]

I would say that it's true,weight and mass aren't so important in "real" fight(but in the ring it is obviously different).Without gloves and in real situation someone well trained knowing how and where to hit can beat one or more larger and stronger opponents.I say someone well trained of course.For exemple,let's say i'm facing MR muscle and he tries to hit me with a jab:i could dodge easlily and then plug my fingers into his eyes(nasty) or give him an elbow(nasty too) or rip his face with a claw,or rip his throat with a claw...We often forget that big guys have the same weaknesses as everyone(i forgot the classic kick in the balls).Then if i'm not well trained and he hits me with his jab...Well surely i would fall down KO if he knows how to give it.

Something else that we often forget...Big guys usually are impressive,that's why nobody dares to quarrell with them...and that's why they have no experience also(if they don't practise in a club 3 hours a day of course).

To come back to Asia,for sure these skinny monks(or Thai Boxers) are not only legends,and they train so hard that they cost four times their weight,as well as their conditionning makes them really dangerous.That's what i think.

BTL,i would like to ask you:are you professional?In which style?How did you become pro?Have you ever been to China?Have you ever fought?How old were you when you started?
I always wondered how was it possible to earn money with martial arts only...Surely you know as it looks like you are a teacher.So please tell me all that///Cheers.Oh!Thank you again for everything that's very nice of you!I know you have info(obviously)and it's always good for me to get some from eldest people,wherever they're from i don't care.

Juszczec,i'm waiting for your exercises...Thank you a thousand times!

I also would like to remind that in a conversation we don't always agree,that's what makes a conversation!How would it be if we were all the sameamned boring.So i think there is no need for getting angry when someone thinks differently,but rather stay calm and accept and learn from it.Hugh!

Waiting for more tips...Cheers to you all!

[zachsan]

mark, thanks. there's really no use in trying to reason with her, but it's good to know that there are working brains out there.

flow, it's not so much that we get angry. sad is more like it.

[juszczec]

I would say that it's true,weight and mass aren't so important in "real" fight

Anything that can give me an advantage over the opposition is important. Anything that can give my opposition and advantage over me is important.

Mr Muscle (let's say he weighs 200lbs) may only know how to do wild, swinging round punches. But if one of them connects - well, you've just had 200lbs (ok, some percentage of 200lbs, but you get the idea) slam into your head.

Then if i'm not well trained and he hits me with his jab...Well surely i would fall down KO if he knows how to give it.

Well trained or not, 200lbs hits you in the head and you are in trouble.

Juszczec,i'm waiting for your exercises...Thank you a thousand times!

No problem. I just talked to my brother.

He did pushups using 3 different hand positions, 2 different foot positions and 2 different levels.

Hands:

1. palms flat on floor under shoulders
2. on first 2 knuckles under shoulders
3. hands under center of chest, index fingers and thumbs touching to form a diamond

Feet:

1. feet shoulder width apart
2. one foot crossed over the other

Levels:

1. feet on floor
2. feet on a chair

He'd mix these up so he did a set of

palms flat on floor under shoulders, feet shoulder width apart. feet on floor
palms flat on floor under shoulders, feet shoulder width apart, feet on a chair
palms flat on floor under shoulders, one foot crossed over the other, feet on floor
palms flat on floor under shoulders, one foot crossed over the other, feet on a chair

and so on

Abs:

He did:

crunches
sit curls (kind of like a crunch but you draw your knees to your chest)
leg lifts

He'd hold his feet in different positions as he did the crunches. The order was:

feet flat on floor, toes touching, heels apart
soles of feet touching, knees spread
feet raised (thighs perpendicular to ground, calves parallel to ground)
feet raised (soles of feet touching, knees spread)
feet straight up in the air pointing towards ceiling, feet touching
feet straight up in the air, feet apart (legs look like a big V)
feet in air, left leg exteneded, right leg bent at the knee
feet in air, left leg bent at the knee, right let extended
knees bent, knees on floor pointing to left
knees bent, knees on floor point to right

They were all done quickly. The position of the feet were supposed to work different parts of the abs.

We also did lots of crunches with feet flat on floor. I've done them quickly and for a 5 count (raise up, count to 5, lower, repeat).

When you do them to a 5 count, you can hold your hands in different positions. You can leave your hands on the ground, put them on your thighs, cross them over your chest, put them behind your head, hold them straight up towards the ceiling or hold them up and bend them at the elbow. If they are up in the air, you can hold dumbbells. If they are crossed over your chest, you can lay a weight plate on yourself.

I've tried doing the routine with all the different foot positions to a 5 count. I've got a bad back, it hurt, I stopped. The back is the reason I don't do leg lifts either.

I also do hip raises. Lay on your back with something you can grab behind your head (like a table leg). Reach behind you and grab the support. Point your feet in the air, slowly lift your hips off the ground, slowly lower them, repeat.

I also do planks. Get in a push up position, but instead of being on your hands, put your forearms on the ground. Hold that position. You can also do planks for your obliques, simply put one forearm on the ground and point the opposite hip to the ceiling.

There's also this thing called an ab wheel. Its a little wheel with a stick thru it. Get on your knees, hold the stick in your hands, push the wheel out and lower yourself slowly with your hands till you are parallel with the floor, bring the wheel back to the starting position.

For the legs, there's the 4 Corner Balance Drill at www.rmax.tv and the stepping drill I mentioned.

Look around on the 'net for ways to use a heavy bag for weight training.

Let me know if you need any further descriptions.

Mark

[juszczec]

mark, thanks. there's really no use in trying to reason with her, but it's good to know that there are working brains out there.

BTL posted something I didn't understand. I asked (in my own way) for clarification. She's got reasons she made the statement, in order to learn I want to know what her reasons are.

Mark

[Maestro]

listen, anybody with experience and knowledge will tell u, size matters. in the beginings of the UFC there were no weight classes, and things were crazy. i remember when hoyce had to fight kimo and ken shamrock and the like, now that i look back its funny ken couldnt even ko or submit hoyce..hoyce is a friggin welter weight. the light heavyweights today would destroy hoyce..lolo

anyhow, why do you think there are so many weapons taught in CMA? because they are fun? man made weapons to equalize their inability to cope in a fight against animals(which are bigger and stronger then us) and against humans, who may or may not be bigger, regardless, weapons make all the difference

u wanna talk about hand 2 hand and say size doesnt matter..well, lol maybe there are just some people that need to learn the hard way...

[mortal]

One of my biggest thrills in life is knocking out bigger muscle bound guys. I have many friends that feel the same way.

Not only that in sparring those guys get owned consistantly by the smaller more experianced students. I have seen the same in juijitsu classes. A small experianced guy will tap or choke out a big inexperianced guy anyday.

Size matter but heart and true fighting ability matter more. What is sad is most school don't teach true fighting abiilty. They teach all of the curriculum on cooperative opponents. Or they never had any skill to begin with because the so called master sucks and never had fight in his life.

I think the only people who should be called master are ones who can fight, everyone else is just an instructor. There is nothing wrong with being just an instrucor but please drop the word sifu from your name if you never actually fought. Its making the rest of us kungfu nerds look bad.

[mortal]

Also fo the record it is spelled Royce. They pronounce there names with an h sound but spell it with an r.

[zachsan]

anything that happens in the UFC can be explained away simply by virtue of the fact that it happened in the UFC, and not in the "real world", if someone really wants to explain it away (which obviously some people are interested in doing). the thing is, that line of reasoning can only end with the conclusion that we have no reliable way of testing what works in the "real world", so let's just all get together and argue hypotheticals.

anyway maestro's point about weapons is interesting. you're right, that given the right weapons, size really doesn't matter. i also agree with mortal that heart and ability matter more. i never said that size is the ultimate deciding factor, simply that it's another advantage, and for the serious martial artist, if you can get it, you ought to.

[Maestro]

"Not only that in sparring those guys get owned consistantly by the smaller more experianced students. I have seen the same in juijitsu classes. A small experianced guy will tap or choke out a big inexperianced guy anyday."

the keyword is inexperienced bro, and theres no A. you point is worthless mortal, you think because u beat up an inexperienced student that happens to be strong that your good? yea right, i bet it does give you and your friends a thrill lolo.

obviously your comment about jiu jitsu is bullshit aswell to ANYONE who has seriously trained grappling, because nothing can beat height and weight in a grappling match, i dont give a **** if your mighty mouse reincarnate, your gonna loose to someone who knows what they are doing. espcially since all they have to do is wrap themselves around you completely, not to mention that most big guys can just stand the **** up when little guys try and do anything to them on the ground

yknow, here we go again with mortal the wing chun student talking out his ass, i really dont care how much heart you have, it goes a long way sure, but that doesnt have jack shit to do with fighting someone who is bigger then u, and who trains to fight, u think people like that are a pushover huh? consistently getting there asses beat eh, maybe u should come visit us, i could gurantee an ass whooping for you.

unless of course..u factor in the weapons, which i already commented on. even a rock could change the difference of me winning or looseing to crocop on the street..lolo. but thats not the point.

[zachsan]

no, stop. this is a more or less interesting topic without it needing to devolve into another "you're obviously not that good since you think..." internet pissing contest. both of you agree that size matters.

to tie this in with the original intent of the thread: it's evident that almost all of us agree that size can be a huge advantage in a fight. and we've established that weapons can be a great equalizer. so, for the little guy/girl who's never going to have the size advantage, what muscles specifically should be trained to make up for it, and to best facilitate a weapons-based approach? and for the big guy, how to best go about building strength while staying quick enough to compete when there are weapons involved? you know, as the plate armor thing really isn't an option anymore.

[Maestro]

listen zach, i could give a **** about mortal and what skills he thinks he has, that has nothing to do with the fact that size matters, and it matters more then fighting ability and heart when it comes to h2h. just look at sapp vs nogueira, nogueira would have been DEAD if he fought sapp on the street, he would be dead ****ing meat, but he beat sapp after he got him tired and on the ground. shit like that, makes people think that proves something..that doesnt prove jack shit

theres plenty of people ive met that think they have heart, they talk about it like its some kind of treasure, same people get there asses beat cause im faster and stronger

"so, for the little guy/girl who's never going to have the size advantage, what muscles specifically should be trained to make up for it, and to best facilitate a weapons-based approach? and for the big guy, how to best go about building strength while staying quick enough to compete when there are weapons involved? you know, as the plate armor thing really isn't an option anymore."

muscles arent a small mans advantage, if its there best weapon, they will be screwed against most bigger people. about big guys..i dont really know who thinks big guys are so slow..ok im 6'1, no i cant fly across the room like yan ming or some 50 kg asian, but i am very fast, so fast really i havent met anyone yet faster then me except for a few skinny bastards who have no power anyway. espcially when they hit with their fists loose lolo..

look , when weapons get involved u better be good if u think ur gonna try and fight someone whos armed. u wanna go against a knife i dont care how big u are, anyone can get a buck fifty right across the face, if thats to far a target, theres plenty more

u guys wanna talk like big guys are shit, heart and skill matter more, ok anyone seen kimbo slice? that guy has no skill, and i bet not a damn person on this board would have a prayer against him. if u dont know who he is...

http://www.sublimedirectory.com/basement/

and that guy really isnt shit, like my sifu says, hes definately not unbeatable but hes a perfect example of what im trying to get across to morons like mortal

[zachsan]

maestro... relax. size matters, a lot. we all agree. lol... rather than waste time arguing exactly how much size matters to the tenth of a percent, we could at least go through the motions of trying to get back on topic.

muscles arent a small mans advantage, if its there best weapon, they will be screwed against most bigger people.

yes. yes, we know. some small people however will never be big people. so how should they train? this is the question.

[Maestro]

they should do what most of them do do, which is train martial arts. most of those little bastards go in thinking they are going to perfect some secret death techniques that will give them some crazy advantage. best thing they can do is what masters have been emphasiseing for centurys. learn how to throw your body behind your punch, and that rock, that rock thats attatched to the rope of an arm, turns into a boulder, thats how they should train.

problem is "big" guys like me, that know how to utilize the six harmonies, along with fah jing..well, not much i can say i guess. but im always looking for someone who can beat me up, if i wasnt, id never get better.

[mortal]

"problem is "big" guys like me, that know how to utilize the six harmonies, along with fah jing..well, not much i can say i guess. but im always looking for someone who can beat me up, if i wasnt, id never get better."

You found him.

Maestro

So full of anger. And all the unprovoked name calling. Your not over the hungga thread I guess. Take it easy dude stop getting so worked up if someone disagrees with you. It doesn't mean it is a personal attack. lol

If I wanted to attack you Id tell you to go get your shine box.

You make all these assumptions about me. You know nothing about me. You don't know how big I am if i'm muscular. Nothing. Just on the internet talking a lot of junk. If we were face to face and you said some of those things I'd knock your 6 1 ass out. You mentioned little skinny guys. Let me guess your one of those big fat hungar practioners because you don't have to move around that much. lolol

[zachsan]

i hate the internet.