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  • #16
    Originally posted by doc
    Interesting Uwe. There are many similarities to four of the maneuvers in Ba Duan Jing qi gong which is found quite extensively at Shaolin. I wonder if it evolved from what you posted here.

    Having had an email conversation with Agan about this, I suspect that he was thinking along different lines though. I'm curious to hear more about what he was thinking. I found it a bit puzzling; it should be good stuff.
    I will post the other eleven ones later on. Should be fun for comparison purposes.

    Uwe

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    • #17
      "You feel a difference of application in martial arts breath through a mouth and through a nose? In what their difference? To me interestingly your opinion. I think, that long use an exhalation through a mouth gives fighting abilities, but does not give confidence before people. The exhalation through a mouth deletes mental force from an organism and the person loses immunity against meanness{low act}. I have carried out research of people from special troops and trainers, they practise a fighting exhalation through a mouth. They good masters of war, but they are very weak in an ordinary life. I have studied{investigated} methods of masters of Japan and China. My conclusion such: they use in martial arts an exhalation through a nose. Long use an exhalation through a nose gives increase of mental force, kind health and the fighting superiority.

      Chineses and other teachers very often say lies: they practise one method, and to other people teach other method.

      What do you think of it{this}, can tell?"


      isn't it weird when a piece of gold walks up, bites you on the leg, and you don't now what it is? Or you think maybe it is plastic or dirt?

      You really don't know what you are seeing do you Doc? This man is very insightful. I am kind of in awe. You do not get this kind of insight on the internet but once every.....5 years or so.

      This reminds me of another situation exactly like this one. Let me relate it to you.

      There was a guy named Dan something or other who wrote a Ba Gua journal. It was quite well known for some time.

      As part of his writing and editing duties, he went to China to some kind of kung fu gathering. There were martial artists from all over China there.

      People are the same the world over. Men always test each other and always preen and show off in front of each other. Chinese, Americans....all men are the same.

      A Chinese man with a younger man in two approaches the editor of the magazine. From the Chinese man's perspective, he sees a white guy who is supposed to be high status. He flies in from the USA and edits a magazine. So he must be somebody. Right?

      The Chinese guy is going to test the editor. That is what men do right? They test each otehr to see who is best.

      The Chinese man began to perform his martial arts form, whatever it was. During the performance, the editor said that the chinese man "continually shook himself like a dog shaking water off of itself". At the end of the form, the chinese man turned and looked expectantly at the editor.

      The editor looked at him for a minute and said "What's that for"?

      The Chinese guy and the young student looked at the editor for a minute, then turned and walked away without saying a word. The editor did not know what to think. He knew something was going on. He just didn't know what.

      The Chinese man had just shown the editor high level kung fu talent. And the editor, who was the editor of a magazine devoted to Ba Gua, did not even understand what he was seeing.

      So the Chinese man turned his back on the editor like he would turn his back on a worthless fool, and walked away without saying a word.
      ----------------

      You can go get the back issues of the magazine to verify the story if you want to. My details will be slightly wrong, but overall it should be write.

      Doc? This man is like the chinese man in my story. You are the editor.

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      • #18
        "You feel a difference of application in martial arts breath through a mouth and through a nose? In what their difference? To me interestingly your opinion. I think, that long use an exhalation through a mouth gives fighting abilities, but does not give confidence before people. The exhalation through a mouth deletes mental force from an organism and the person loses immunity against meanness{low act}. I have carried out research of people from special troops and trainers, they practise a fighting exhalation through a mouth. They good masters of war, but they are very weak in an ordinary life. I have studied{investigated} methods of masters of Japan and China. My conclusion such: they use in martial arts an exhalation through a nose. Long use an exhalation through a nose gives increase of mental force, kind health and the fighting superiority.

        Chineses and other teachers very often say lies: they practise one method, and to other people teach other method.

        What do you think of it{this}, can tell?"


        I agree that Chinese people do one thing while telling others to do something else.

        I am not anywhere near your level of understanding. I can offer my humble opinion.

        I agree that mouth breathing will lead to low kinds of thinking. I also agree that mouth breathing is associated with power. I feel it is important to not deride people who mouth breath. Yes their thinking is of lower.....moral standard. Yet they are able to generate immense power with their methods.

        Not everyone is suited to high thinking. But I feel everyone deserves power. I think it is OK to say mouth breathing people have a lower mental standard as long as it is not used in a derogatory or hurtful way.


        I agree that a particular style of nose breathing is associated with higher mental states and higher types of energy than with mouth breathers. I feel it is necessary to emphasize that high and low apply as physical words describing height. The nose is higher than the mouth. The mouth is lower than the nose.

        High and low in this context does not mean good and bad.

        I can recommend a video to you that I think you will find interesting. There is a documentary video on one of the Gracie Jiu Jitsu fighters. I can't remember which one there are so many Gracies. One of the older ones.

        In the documentary, you will see him do a nose breathing exercise. This man was one of their best fighters. They made a documentary about him.

        Is the nose breathing he demonstrates part of what makes him a superior fighter? What exactly is he doing?

        If you are a perceptive person, and you have demonstrated you are, you should be able to see the effects on his body of his nose breathing as he breathes. It is fairly clear.
        ---------------------

        Thank you for sharing your research with us. It gives me hope to know that there are insightful people out their trying to teach others what they know

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Happeh
          I can recommend a video to you that I think you will find interesting. There is a documentary video on one of the Gracie Jiu Jitsu fighters. I can't remember which one there are so many Gracies. One of the older ones.

          In the documentary, you will see him do a nose breathing exercise. This man was one of their best fighters. They made a documentary about him.

          Is the nose breathing he demonstrates part of what makes him a superior fighter? What exactly is he doing?

          If you are a perceptive person, and you have demonstrated you are, you should be able to see the effects on his body of his nose breathing as he breathes. It is fairly clear.
          It is interesting. I can make the analysis of its style and a method. But I live not in America and I have no full access to video Gracie. I saw only short plots. The full analysis needs a lot of time of video, and very carefully to analyze. If you want, send me video Gracie to me on a home address and I shall closely study it. At me in the country the Internet of bad quality and it is very dear in money.
          You agree?
          But. There is one more question. The skilled fighter hides the method. If I shall understand a method, whether it is necessary to publish it? In fact fight is a business for clan Gracia. You understand me?

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          • #20
            I too find this all very interesting... As I read, I was thinking about how I breath in various situations. Indeed I do breath in AND out through my nose when taking a written test. I am using my mind in a more focussed way. When I throw a punch, I am breathing out through my mouth. Every martial artist knows this gives you a short increase of power. Interesting !!!

            Back to the original question though... How can we use breathing methods to improve ourselves ? And, what would these methods be ? Someone help PLEASE !!!

            My biggest hindrance to practicing MA or simply jogging is breath control ! After even one simple short form I am horribly winded. This problem dosen't change when I'n in my best shape ! I know there must be some breathing practices to help develope better breath control. I can't turn to my master because he only speaks Chinese and I only speak enough for basic conversation...

            Another question / example ??? Some of you out there must be fairly talented MA'ists... Think about this for a moment... How do you breath durring your forms. Is it short breaths that coordinate with your movements ? or, Long breaths that you inhale and exhale through the course of several movements ???
            I think I subconsciously hold my breath on certain movements. I think this is my downfall. Just like it is not good to hold your breath when lifting, or I guess pressing heavy weights, I think (meaning I don't know for sure) it's not good to hold your breath through difficult movements.

            Tell me what you think. How you breath durring practice. Form practice specificaly...
            "Winners turn to losers, losers are forgotten..." - A Tribe Called Quest

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            • #21
              Originally posted by baiwanxi
              I think I subconsciously hold my breath on certain movements. I think this is my downfall. Just like it is not good to hold your breath when lifting, or I guess pressing heavy weights, I think (meaning I don't know for sure) it's not good to hold your breath through difficult movements.
              It's not good to hold your breath during exercise, especially when lifting weights. When you hold your breath, and exert pressure on your chest with external musculature, you can increase your intrathoracic pressure, which inhibits venous blood return to the heart, thus possibly diminishing your cardiac output. It will also diminish venous blood flow from the head, which can subsequently increase intracranial pressure. (In me, that triggers migraines). Remember, breathing helps move blood as well as air.
              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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              • #22
                well i can say as far as breathing during forms, and breathing while sparring or even chisau for that matter my sifu always taught me to just relax and breathe normally so my breathing is always very slow and deep, same breathing when im walking around normally in a relaxed state,so i try to duplicate that while im sparring.. and ill spar constantly, switching between 3 - 4 people and not even get winded.. then other people in my school think i never get tired..ive noticed that trying to breathe out with certain movements or breathing out through the mouth while throwing a punch forces me to tighten up my abdomen, which tires me out or gives me a cramp, if i had previously eaten or something.. i think your breathing too helps alot with your ability to remain fluid with your movements, i noticed when people spar with me and try to throw a power punch and i can hear them breathing out with it, if they miss or i step to the side its almost impossible for them to use the movement to create power for another attack... for wingchun guys we use the chain punches, so when ur throwing 3- 4 punches a second it would be kind of hard to exhale with each punch without passing out

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                • #23
                  When lifting heay weights, it's important to breathe at the correct time, and hold at the correct time. You shouldn't be breathing in when you're at the point of max exertion, definately.

                  -edit- To explain more, it's simply more wise in most lifts to keep your core steady throughout a large majority of the lift. This is accomplished by holding your breath.


                  A method I use while running is in through the nose, out through the mouth in a controlled fashion. I also try to hold my breath for several moments after inhaling. This way, I don't immediately exhale all the fresh air I've taken in.

                  You can also try swimming for cardio. By controlling your breath like 3 strokes/breath, you're going to help develop your rythym.
                  Last edited by LeiYunFat; 12-15-2006, 09:30 AM.
                  Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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                  • #24
                    i like suspending the breath.
                    "Life is a run. In attack we run, in defense we run. When you can no longer run, time to die" - Shichiroji "Seven samurai"

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                    • #25
                      Usually in a boxing match, the fighter who's going to lose the match will be the first one to start breathing out of his mouth. Its a dead giveaway.
                      Show me a man who has forgotten words, so that I can have a word with him.

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                      • #26
                        Breath and its result depends on synchronisation with a stomach. A question: how to you it is more convenient, to compress a stomach inside or to inflate it? During an exhalation.

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