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  • #16
    Alright you kinda lsot me now... At first I thought you were trying to have a serious conversation....

    It was at the point when I went to chill out that I collapsed... mainly because it was over 100 degrees in that place.... and humid.... just not safe.... As for everyhting else your wrote I'm not sure what your talking about....

    Slowing down the class???

    I was in perfect health... I don't understand the arguement... Since I'm the only one that got heat stroke its all my fault??? is that what your saying?? does that mean if everyone collapsed at the same exact time it would be different??/

    The difference being I had already run a class before regular class... everyone in that class went home...I stayed for the regular class.... I'm not gonna talk about thinking back on how maybe I shouldn't have or whatever.... That issue is painfully ****ing obvious to anyone with half a brain.... I mean go down that road and I would've avoided USAST from the beginning...

    The point is it happened... the circumstances leading up to it are really moot... You seem to be implying that I was almost asking for it.... does that justify their lack of response???

    Out of curiousity do you train at the USAST? if so who are you? do I know you?
    The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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    • #17
      You said it man... unbelievable... You know a few people I've talked to got mad at me for being upset and even said I should be thanking Yan Ming and those there for their response.... Saying it must have been the right one because I'm still alvie arn't I....

      ha.... all I can say is veeeery interesting...
      The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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      • #18
        You see lawman...

        he was in his 2nd back to back class and the truth comes out... he was clearly overtraining and unfit for the next round ... hence not being able to "move fast enough" to not be a disruption.

        every other student in that class was okay.

        take care when you train.. if you do extra, you need to take extra care.

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        • #19
          For the record for the past 3 years I would trian that way.... Demo class for an hour... rest for a few minutes then train regular class.... That WAS normaly for me....

          You still seem to be avoiding the main issue though... Others might have been fine but I had heat stroke... I was dying... I needed an ambulance... thats the whole ****ing point....

          Let me see if I understand your logic... If the entire class was doing tornado kicks and 1 person out of 20 landed wrong and broke his ankle would that mean there is no problem there and we should jsut leave him in the corner? I mean everyone else was fine..... In fact we should be mad at him for slowing down class right???

          YOu never answered my other questions... do you train at USAST/??
          The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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          • #20
            She doesn't train at USAST, she's just crazy. (She's Australian.)

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            • #21
              The crazy part I was beginning to wonder about..... Seemed so content on defending the place....

              Hmmm.. Australia makes me think now... a group from national geographic australia came to the place once to do a documentary... there was a girl who was in charge... and she became very taken by yan ming and the place... maybe theres a connection ...... oooo weeee oooo weeee OOOOO!!!

              HA!

              Or the other possibility just a random crazy person....
              The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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              • #22
                I'm sorry to say that no that wasn't me. I highly doubt that we've ever met.


                Not at all do I think aninjured person shoud be left untended....

                and because you normally can deal with training like that, quite clearly that day was an anomolic episode..

                there werre other factors that day that put you in diffrerent health to everyone else there.. and while I understand that you were in a serious state of acute health affliction, this kind of thing was nOt a normal occurance.
                At some stage IronCross a person has to take some responsibilty for themselves.
                If I was sincerely feeling like I was approaching a chronic state, whether someone yelled at me not, If I felt instructions were unreasonable and I had another choice, ..I would've left.

                You weren't being forced to stay there, you were being invited to stay.
                Zachsan has always been big on dismissing a persons responsibilty of duty of care to themselves.. it's a favourite argument of his in these type of circumstances..
                I do empathise with what you went through ... but honestly IronCross..who allows themselves to continue to their detriment then blames someone else for not stopping them ??? ... like the alcoholic who blames the bar man.. hence laws that say that in diminished capacity, someone else should be responsible.. but you weren't on drugs or drunk..

                I'm also sorry to hear you now have problems training at any intensity for whatever reason emotional, physical or otherwise... it can be traumatic when you find out that you're alone at times when you most need someone....... sometimes the calvary isn't coming and particularly when it's about how to handle whats going on in your body... you haave to develop strategies to deal with those times or you wiiill die early and get eaten up by the world... why sOme ppl survive cancer and others don't...
                this is something that zen lends itself to well ... it comforts through those times... and gives us means to find ways to get through all on our own...opreating on the premise that we maay indeed be left to live or die on our own will and proactivity when the heats on and conditions are adverse...

                Regardless of YanMings innocence or otherwise, maybe you want to have a quiet think about that sometime... what to do when you find yourself alone and in trouble...

                carry a cell phone so if you need to, you can call for help yourself..

                practice qigong breathing and learn to relax..

                maybe YanMngs temple was trying to steer toward thaat.. and it did...

                you have my condolences on the realisation ...

                if it's any comfort .. you're not alone in being alone when it counts ... it happens to rthe best of us and reality is harsh but better than delusion.

                Amitabah IronCross.

                Bloming Lotus
                Last edited by Guest; 08-22-2006, 12:09 AM.

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                • #23
                  Well, as I've already mentioned before I was stepping out when it happened... I had stopped training and was at the window getting fresh air....

                  and your right that severity in heat reaction has never happened to anyone else to my knowledge... Doesn't that then mean GREATER care should be taken... I mean its not like it happpens everyday and people are used to dealing with it...

                  By that statement alone it seems logical to call for paramedics right off the bat... given that its a situation no one has been in before... to not call for paramedics is gambling with some pretty heavy odds...

                  but I still think your missing the point... What happened happened... the situations leading up to then are really moot... I'm not talking about all that.... we were all jsut training like we always did...

                  Its jsut like my analogy of someone breaking an ankle doing a tornado kick... if it happens then it happens...

                  Its the response thats the BIG problem here... I mean I wouldn't treat a perfect stranger that way... why is there even an arguement as to whether or not they should've called for an ambulance.. of course they should've.... hence why I am upset about the whole situation... even arguing about that fact raises other issues about the place... that whole cult mentality... but thats another issue..
                  The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Oh yea... carry a cell phone? I'm not talking about a flat tire here... I was unable to move.. let alone talk.... I don't think I had strength at the moment to press the buttons... not like you can carry a cell in your robe.... lol
                    The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Oranges in socks started something...

                      Seriously I kid with you because i want to lighten the mood. You always seem so serious in your posts. You get across these great zen-like ideas and seem so rooted in your opinions. I admire that. You are really someting special.

                      I'm an asshole. Despite what other people say of me. You should hate me. You should think I am a small-minded, woman hating, "blame it on someone else other than myself" american. I haven't trained in months. I'm lazy. I'm getting fat. But I'm honest and I have a good idea of who I am. I am not trying to be someone else.

                      Why do you side with YM? just because or is there another reason? He does know a little qi gong and he surely knows some forms and some good training basics. The non-explaining that went on with the qi-gong teaching was misunderstood. I wasn't looking for specifics I was just looking for a direction to look in. You can teach a monkey how to move but some dialouge and introspection goes a lot further. You are me and I am you. Lets get crazy.
                      "What is barely legal?" - Ali G

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                      • #26
                        I'm fairly sure that Steve is about ready to concuss himself on his keyboard trying to either lock me out or send me a virus or something but before I go I want to tell you that I think yoU're missing the point of the term 'temple' and what that means here....

                        of course if you felt you needed an ambulance you might've... and if I were there I might've even called you one...

                        zens best lessons are ones that aren't asked for ..

                        if anything, from your experience you should at minimum understand that crying changes nothing and neither does a law suit. It's learning to cope that's your true friend.... and rather than trying to stopevery atrocity that human life presents us, stiill I believe the best we can do for ourselves is learning a strategy to deal with those things when we come across them and need to ... leading a person twd that, accepting lifes hardships and standing up all alone maay indeed be perceived as a cult goal and hard and insensitive and so forth.. benificence of that debateable.. but I will be buggered if I'm going to put myself at the mercy of hope that help might arrive.. because the reality is that sometimes it is just sincerely not going to.. and so we need to cope to a comfortable level with that load and keep progressing nonetheless...


                        and forr the record ... you made it to window through that whole traumatic event .. you say you thought you were dying.. .. if you had a cell phone and sincerely thought you were in trouble you could've made it to it aswell....


                        I'mreally going to get locked out again any moment , so peace and amitabah to you all. .

                        Blooming Lotus

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                        • #27
                          Mmmm no i couldn't have made it to my phone.. but seriously why would I need to... my friends and temple brothers surrounded me surely they would step up and call for help... oh wait ... hmm... yeah thats right...

                          My phone was in the dressing room on the other side of the temple... doing me no good there... but then it was Yan Ming that told me you never need an ambulance... hooray for saftey!!!!

                          I took qigong at the temple also... learned the whole yi jin jing.. only took me a year and a half... ugh... looking back that was probably a mistake... oh wells..

                          tetsumaru do I know you? you mentioned you studied qigong there once... when exactly?
                          The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by tetsumaru
                            Oranges in socks started something...

                            Seriously I kid with you because i want to lighten the mood. You always seem so serious in your posts. You get across these great zen-like ideas and seem so rooted in your opinions. I admire that. You are really someting special.

                            I'm an asshole. Despite what other people say of me. You should hate me. You should think I am a small-minded, woman hating, "blame it on someone else other than myself" american. I haven't trained in months. I'm lazy. I'm getting fat. But I'm honest and I have a good idea of who I am. I am not trying to be someone else.

                            Why do you side with YM? just because or is there another reason? He does know a little qi gong and he surely knows some forms and some good training basics. The non-explaining that went on with the qi-gong teaching was misunderstood. I wasn't looking for specifics I was just looking for a direction to look in. You can teach a monkey how to move but some dialouge and introspection goes a lot further. You are me and I am you. Lets get crazy.

                            Tetsamaru,

                            hate is something a level person doesn't really do ....

                            The reason I do seriously serious so often is because I can't afford to play ... it leaves a girl open... and when I'm my only back up that doesn't bode well..yoU see what happens here ...

                            So you aare clear i don't believe your not the person ( or one of that ) I've been talking to on celland email for the past couple of yrs.. therefore you are nOt in America...
                            It's not YanMing I 'm particularly siding with ... so much as zen and what to do when your innocent and up shiva creek... the guy said he believed he was dying and no-one would help... so the lesson should then be that that will happen sometimes...Yan MIng and the boys are also acutely familiar with this occurance ...



                            If ever you need a direction to look in... don't loook at the crazy woman !!.. look inside ... and look like you were looking where no-one else could see you doing it.. there'll never not be somewhere to go or instructions to get you there.. keep doing that and you'll see how you can trust whats in there..

                            you know I put my myself inother shoes... I just like my own more often.. be me and enjoy the ride .

                            again

                            BL.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Iron Cross
                              Mmmm no i couldn't have made it to my phone.. but seriously why would I need to... my friends and temple brothers surrounded me surely they would step up and call for help... oh wait ... hmm... yeah thats right...

                              My phone was in the dressing room on the other side of the temple... doing me no good there... but then it was Yan Ming that told me you never need an ambulance... hooray for saftey!!!!

                              I took qigong at the temple also... learned the whole yi jin jing.. only took me a year and a half... ugh... looking back that was probably a mistake... oh wells..

                              tetsumaru do I know you? you mentioned you studied qigong there once... when exactly?
                              I can't keep saying this here to keep getting deafened by the sound of rocks pelting my body.... if you thought you needed an ambulance..you did nOt learn the yijinjing... qigong is total healing without meds or help...
                              in future keep your phone handy ... sometimes not even your temple friends will help you... like shifu says "trust nO-one" .. then you can rely pn yourself and relax.

                              Blooming Lotus

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                              • #30
                                I dont recall him ever saying trust no one....

                                And yeah I learned the entire yi jin jing... directly from the big man himself.... qigong helps alot of things.. but it does dick when its over 100 degrees and 90% humidity in the place... people just over heat....

                                to shoot holes in your faith in yi jin jing.... of everyone there that night i was one of 2 people that know the sutra... HA
                                The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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