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Official Shaolin Manuscript(Shaolin Wugong) Series Translation Project - Proposition

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  • #16
    Forum User Doc,

    Very true. And he does. He has me on a mission to find the guy in Florida that translated one of his works from 1992, without permission.

    Then why didn't you make the required coments on LINK REMOVED DOC editions



    How the hell I'm supposed to find that is beyond me...
    You are implying that you are a disciple of Shaolin Master Shi De Qian yet I observe frustration in your words.

    Can a Shaolin practitioner feel(accept the use of feelings) ?

    Can a Shaolin Master feel ?

    Did Shaolin Grandmaster Da Mo feel ?

    P.s.:I suppose you haven't contacted Shaolin Master Shi De Qian or Shaolin Master Zhu Tian Xi.Is it a responsible action to represent him on a subject without being informed of his opinion ?

    P.s.2:I do respect your opinion no matter what that is yet I have to once again clarify that I will suport the effort I have presented in this site(as in other sites)since it will offer infinite benefits to all truelly interested and open the way to the translation of all Shaolin Treatises ever existed and their COMPLETE COMPREHENSION

    Comment


    • #17
      Librarian... the more I read from you, the more I just fail to understand that you actually comprehend more than half of what you are reading in English. The more I realise that you are talking a lot of B.S..

      Originally posted by Librarian B.S.
      With all respect.The actual meaning of showing off is to present an opinion without knowing if it is right or wrong(willfully ignoring about this fact) only for the reason to “be part of” and cover the self created internal illussional gap.
      Just because you put "with all respect" in front of B.S. doesn't mean its not still B.S.

      You are not answering any of my questions... or Doc's, all you are doing is saying "go and speak to De Qian" well we can expend a lot of hot air on this, but hot air isn't going to get the works translated in a professional manner to the degree that would make them profitable.

      Look Doc is a reputable (of sorts!) and veritable individual. If he's talking straight, I believe what he's saying. So based on this, its clear that De Qian is distressed by people taking advantage of his works and translating them without authorisation.

      Doc has just extensively explained that he had dinner with De Qian. In other words, of course he is talking to him about the matter, and clearly because he owns this forum, and he's not telling everyone "Librarian is a veritable individual (despite his difficulties in communicating) and he has De Qian's support on this matter" and instead says NOTHING, this implies that he believes as he aledges that you are acting without De Qian's approval.

      Why would I contact De Qian? If I show any interest in this matter, he might think I support this effort, which I don't. I know that from a professional standpoint from my understanding of how professional translation is performed, that even if you do find 20 other individuals, who haven't a clue about how to translate properly, and they have a go at it, the product is going to be worthless, because of the lack of knowhow and professionalism in the translation.

      Seriously if you want to get the works translated, appoint a judge (a professional translater) find 50 people that want to do the translation. Break the work down into 50 equal parts. Get everyone to pay $250 US dollars into a whip... the first 5 people to finish their translations to the standard specified by the judge win Prizes being 1st 25% of the tote...2nd 12.5% 3rd 6.25%, etc.

      You'll get it translated in no time. Yes it wil be very unprofessional but then at least you will have a first draft and some cash in the bank to finish it off.

      Chicken

      Comment


      • #18
        Translation - Message 1 of 2

        I've been following this thread but now its gotten to the point where a few things need to be straigthened out before this thing gets out of hand.

        I separated this into 2 messages because it should be read separately, because it's a though subject.

        In this first message, I would like to provide you with an articel written by Brian Kennedy in 2002 about the challenges in the translation of Martial Arts classics.

        The article was published in the Euorpean Journal of Martial Arts, and the stetemtns made are as valid today as they were then.

        /////////////////////////Start//////////////////////////

        Chinese Boxing Classics in Translation: Problems and Perils


        By Brian Kennedy
        Copyright © EJMAS 2002. All rights reserved

        Introduction

        "Translation is like a woman: if she is faithful, she is not beautiful; if she is beautiful, she is not faithful." -- Russian proverb

        That Russian proverb encapsulates the core problem facing any translator. When attempting to translate Chinese boxing classics or training manuals (quan pu) (see my "Introductory History of Xing Yi Training Manuals," http://ejmas.com/jalt/jaltart_kennedy_1001.htm) from their original Chinese into English, that core problem is exacerbated by a number of other factors. Those factors are the topic of this article. Even if one never intends to do any translations, these factors are worth understanding. That way, as one reads English language translations of Chinese boxing classics or training manuals, one has a better understanding of why the translation may seem odd or disjointed, or was not quite what the reader had hoped for.

        Good Chinese Essay = Bad English Essay

        A good Chinese essay generally makes a bad English essay. The reason is that what makes a "good" essay (word choice, sentence structure, coherent paragraphs, overall structure, thesis, and so forth) have different criteria in the Chinese and English languages. As a result, the qualities that would make a Chinese essay literate, beautiful, and well done are not the same qualities that would make an English essay equally literate, beautiful and well done. This works both ways. An essay that is rhetorically well done in English is often a poor essay in Chinese. Put most simply, the aesthetic and literary criteria are different. This is particularly true in the case of classical Chinese ("classical" in the sense of a style, not an era of writing).

        Let us look at an example. This is a paragraph taken from Sun Lu Tang’s preface to his book The Study of Form-Mind Boxing. The translation is from Albert Liu. It reads:
        I have been unceasing in my literary study and interest in martial arts, since my childhood. I don’t want to be bold with powerful force, but hope to have the proper way to health. The real courage is not based on bold force, but on the interrelationship of hardness and softness without boldness. There is a common saying that the principle of martial arts training is the same as that of literary learning. Both have the same value and importance. Literates do not like martial arts seeing that common martial arts are too bold and lack elegance.
        As an English essay this gets an "F". It is incoherent, it lacks a thesis, it contains hyperbole, and it rambles in no apparent direction and towards no apparent purpose. It is, however, an excellent piece of Chinese writing and the translation is very well done. Sun Lu Tang did write very well and Albert Liu is a skilled translator. The problem is that the piece simply does not translate well. It does not translate well because it is good classical Chinese and the aesthetics and rhetorical standards are so different than English.

        A number of specific factors contribute to the classical Chinese-modern English impasse. Among them:

        * Classical Chinese does not have the same concept of paragraphing that modern English does. A well done English paragraph, as we all learned in school, contains one major idea, a thesis sentence, and then supporting sentences. Classical Chinese does not really even have the idea of paragraphs. The divisions used were sentences and then what might be termed "sections." It is up to the translator to decide how the translation should be paragraphed.
        * Classical Chinese sentences are almost always what English teachers would term "run on sentences." That is, they go on and on and on, whereas in contemporary English, there would be divisions into separate sentences. This situation is worsened by the fact that many early Chinese martial arts texts contain little or no punctuation.
        * Classical Chinese tends to be very indirect. (This ties in with the concept of "run on sentences.") Thus the point (whatever the point is) is rarely made directly. Instead there will be a hint of the point, then an aside, then kind of back to the point, then a further aside.
        * Classical Chinese gives the impression of being disorganized. Actually, it is not really "an impression": classical Chinese writing is disorganized. Under classical Chinese literary aesthetics, coming right to the point is considered boorish, crude, and a sure sign of literary incompetence.

        Thus Master Sun’s paragraph mentioned above is a perfect example of these translation problems. It contains three topics that are only vaguely related. In them, we learn that:

        1. Master Sun was interested in martial arts and literature his whole life.
        2. There are two types of courage.
        3. Martial arts and literary studies have something in common although practitioners of the two arts do not seem to like each other.

        Unless one intends to completely rewrite the essay, there is not much that a translator can do about the disorganization. My partner and I often translate modern Chinese essays for the local Taiwanese newspapers and this lack of organization is the bane of such translations.

        Another challenge facing the translator is word choice. Classical Chinese is often filled with hyperbole, and literal translation can make the Chinese author sound like a used car salesman. Careful word choice by the translator can often go a long way toward making the work sound more intelligent. The question here is one of "translator ethics" or perhaps "translator philosophy": how far should the translator substitute words that s/he thinks are "appropriate" with what the author literally said?

        In Master Sun’s example above, the translation of the second sentence reads, "I don’t want to be bold with powerful force, but hope to have the proper way to health." The phrase "bold with powerful force" is 100% literally correct. I would paraphrase that to: "I don’t practice martial arts in order to be seen as aggressive or belligerent, but rather hope to improve and protect my health." I think that makes a better English sentence, but it is not what Master Sun wrote. Instead, it is what I think he meant. How far a translator should go in re-writing or paraphrasing an author is a subject that has been much discussed in translation circles. However, its resolution lies outside the scope of this article.

        Differing literary aesthetics is more of a problem with earlier works, earlier being defined as pre-1950s. For example, Chinese boxing training manuals written during the Republican period by such authors as Sun Lu Tang, Hwang Bo Nien or Jiang Rong Qiao are written in a classical Chinese style that does not translate very well into modern English. More recent works often have a more modern style of Chinese writing that translates with greater ease into English. This is especially true for those written by Mainland Chinese authors, due to the fact that under Communism classical literary styles were "disfavored," to put it mildly. Taiwanese authors have to a greater extent maintained the older literary style, although that varies from author to author.

        The bottom line is that if you read a translation of a Chinese boxing classic or training manual and the translation seems awkward, do not automatically think that the translator lacks skill. Instead, it may be that the work simply does not translate well.

        The Perfect Team

        That is not to say that the translator is never to blame. Translators need a wide set of skills to translate Chinese boxing texts well, and as a practical matter the translation usually requires a team of at least two people. Furthermore, the team will have to bring to the project knowledge of classical Chinese, and such knowledge is not necessarily common among modern Chinese speakers.

        Admittedly, one sometimes reads in popular articles about the Chinese language that "the written language of China is the same all over the country, and that it has remained unchanged over thousands of years. Thus any modern speaker of Chinese is able to read Chinese classics going all the way back to Confucius." However, that statement is wrong on both counts. First, there are regional differences in writing style. For example, most Taiwanese can quickly spot something that was written in Hong Kong, and vice-versa. Although the characters are the same, the vernacular is noticeably different. As a result, on several occasions my partner has been hired to "translate" documents from "Hong Kong Chinese" into "Taiwanese Chinese." Such translations are not the result of simplified versus traditional characters (Hong Kong still uses the traditional characters), but rather due to the differences in vernacular. As to the idea that a modern native speaker of Chinese can read any Chinese document stretching all the way back to Kung Tzu, that is an equally inaccurate statement. By way of rough analogy, a modern native speaker of Chinese has about the same degree of comprehension of a Ming era text as a modern native speaker of English has with Shakespeare. Likewise, going back to Lao Tzu or Sun Tzu for a modern Chinese reader is about the same as a native speaker of English trying to read Chaucer or Beowulf in the original. Thus, without special training or lots of annotations or a copy of the Oxford English Dictionary, full comprehension simply is not possible.

        One member of the translation team also needs to have at least a "journeyman’s" level of skill in writing English. That statement may seem foolishly obvious, but I see it routinely violated. (Just look at a microwave or car instruction manual if you disbelieve me.) While it is true that a good publishing house editor can do wonders improving a rough manuscript, the house editor is not in a position to rewrite the translation. Bottom line: the translator (or at least one member of the translating team) must have reasonably good English writing skills.

        Some member of the team also must be familiar with the specific martial art being discussed. One reason is that one must already have a good idea what the work is going to say, especially if the book is discussing how to do techniques. If one does not, then the chances of getting things mixed up rises astronomically. Another reason is that each of the Chinese martial arts has it own cant, its own jargon. Unless one is familiar with the jargon, the translation can again go far astray, as much of it is not self-explanatory even to an educated native speaker of Chinese, nor is it covered in standard dictionaries. Bottom line here is that some member of the translation team needs to already know the martial art being discussed or a closely related one.

        In sum, the translator needs to:

        * Know how to read both modern and classical Chinese.
        * Be able to write reasonable English.
        * Have reasonable knowledge of the martial art being described in the text.

        Since there are few individuals who are skilled in all three areas, you can see why teams produce the best translations.

        A good example of this is the team that put together the book Xing Yi Nei Gong (Unique Publications, 1999). The team consisted of Tim Cartmell, Dan Miller, Wang Jin Yu, and Zhang Bao Yang. The four team-members brought together extensive knowledge of xing yi and classical Chinese, plus considerable English language writing and publishing experience. The result was an outstanding book on xing yi.



        Too Great of Expectations

        When preparing to read a Chinese boxing classic or training manual in translation, especially if it is a classic such as Sun Lu Tang’s work or Li Cun Yi’s book, one should have reasonable expectations. Many times modern practitioners (and especially western practitioners who are just getting started in Chinese martial arts) have an exaggerated sense of what Chinese boxing classics or training manuals will contain. The basic thinking or hope often is this: "Oh, once I read Master Sun’s or Master Li’s or Master Whoever’s book on Chinese boxing, my understanding of Chinese boxing will greatly improve."

        Maybe not. Most historical classics, such as Sun Lu Tang’s book or Li Tsun I’s (1847-1921) book Yueh Fei’s Intent Boxing, are interesting from a historical or philosophical perspective, but they do not really provide much practical information that the average practitioner can use to improve his or her martial arts. Put most simply, many of the Chinese boxing classics are long on poetry and philosophy, and short on practical advice. (By practical advice, I mean detailed information that the average practitioner could use right here and now to improve the quality of his or her practice.) Oftentimes too, what practical advice that is given in Chinese boxing classics is "bad advice," at least when measured against modern standards. A prime example is the exhortation to not drink fluids before or during practice. This bit of advice routinely turns up in Chinese boxing classics or training manuals. Here in Taiwan, a very hot and humid country, I see it routinely followed by practitioners who cite the classics as a source of this advice. Here in Taiwan I also routinely see practitioners faint from dehydration from following the advice of the classics.

        Modern Authors May Have More to Say

        I will now risk excommunication and utter a "Chinese boxing heresy": many modern authors have more to say of practical value than do the masters and classics of old. For example, I practice xing yi. If I had to choose, strictly for the purposes of improving my xing yi practice, between owning Sun Lu Tang’s book or any of a number of modern books on xing yi, I would take the modern books. There have been a number of xing yi books released on both the Mainland and on Taiwan in the last 20 years that are very fine, very detailed books on xing yi. They far surpass the xing yi classics in their practical discussions of how to improve one’s xing yi practice.

        There are a number of reasons for this. As mentioned earlier, most of the Chinese boxing classics and training manuals are long on philosophy but short on practical advice. For example, large sections of Sun Lu Tang’s xing yi book are devoted to showing how the practice of xing yi ties in with Taoist cosmology. While interesting from a historical or philosophical standpoint, the discussion does little to improve one’s xing yi.

        Another reason that modern Chinese boxing texts are more useful is that oftentimes the classics devote large amounts of text to vague discussions of qi. (See my article, "Chi the ‘X’ Factor," http://ejmas.com/jalt/jaltart_kennedy_0201.htm.) However intellectually interesting, these discussions, as a practical matter, do little to improve one’s daily practice.

        A third reason is that the classics often do not provide complete information about the actual mechanics. By mechanics I mean does the hand or foot move first, or at the same time? That sort of "timing information" is critical, but often overlooked in old texts.

        The bottom line is that old does not automatically equal better or best.

        "Classical Blues"

        It has not been my intent to disparage either the Chinese boxing classics, or the translators who bring them to the English-speaking public. Instead my intent has been to point out two basic things. First, translating such text is quite demanding and second, old texts, however classic, may not have as much to say as the eager martial arts student would hope that they would. Thus my single recommendation in this article is that in future, translators of Chinese boxing classics and training manuals should turn their translation skills to more modern texts that would be of more practical value to English-speaking martial arts students.

        //////////////////////End///////////////////////////////

        Comment


        • #19
          Mesasage 2 of 2

          While Brian pointed out very correctly the challenges in translation itself, I want to add a few things here for a better understanding, of the issue as a whole and provide some more info often overlooked.

          The following is an excerpt of the preface I include into my translations, and I think it would be worthwhile reading.


          Since the inception of martial arts, some systems pride themselves on centuries old techniques passed down from one living master to another, leaving the martial art almost wholly intact in reference to the original art. It is with this goal in mind that I compiled this series of publications for the art of Shaolin Gong Fu for my students. I deliberately decided not to include any reference material which was written after 1940, because too much was changed and/or adapted. Furthermore, being able to read and write the ”old” Chinese, I translated the original manuals myself.

          The Chinese people refer to themselves and their language, in any of the forms, as Han - a name which derives from the Han dynasty (202 BC-AD 220). Han Chinese is thus to be distinguished from the non-Han minority languages used in China. There are over 50 of these languages (such as Tibetan, Russian, Uighur, Kazakh, Mongolian, and Korean), spoken by around 6 percent of the population.

          The 20th-century movement for language reform in China has resulted in the most ambitious program of language planning the world has ever seen. The program has three aims:

          1. To simplify the characters of classical written Chinese, by cutting down on their number, and reducing the number of strokes it takes to write a character;
          2. to provide a single means of spoken communication throughout the whole of China, by popularizing the Beijing-based variety, which has been chosen as a standard;
          3. to introduce a phonetic alphabet, which would gradually replace the Chinese characters in everyday use.

          The complexity of classical writing is best illustrated in the photo of the Chinese typewriter below. The tray contains over 2,000 characters. Additionally, several thousand more characters are available in other trays. To use it the typist first aligns the tray, then presses a key, which makes an arm pick up the required character and strike it against the paper. The machine can type vertically and horizontally. It is an excruciatingly slow process, whereby a good typist averages at best 20 characters a minute.

          Attempts for language reform were made as early as the 2nd century BC, but there has not been anything near to the complexity of the present-day program. However, the unintended side-effects of this reform is the fact that the younger generation can not read, let alone translate the old treatises anymore. In order to preserve these for the future an attempt is made by a number of martial artists and translators in a variety of locations to preserve these for the future.



          What does a translation actually represent?
          While there are a variety of correct answers for this question, an often overlooked facet consist in the two types of translations in existence.


          * These are translations, which basically "move" the text towards the reader,
          * and Translations requiring the Reader to "approach" the text.


          Prior to start reading a translation, one should have made a decision on whether to read a simple and easily understandable Book, or whether the reader wants a translation, which is as close to the original as possible.

          These viewpoints encompass a large area, for which there will hopefully be other Translations available in the future, in order to meet the requirements of experts, beginners and interested people alike.

          The way I have attempted to translate my publications is best described by the Chinese translator Yan Fu (1853-1921):

          Having fused and gathered the marvelous principles of the whole text in my mind, I lower my brush to write the words, and, if the rendering is a good one, it will suffice to cover the meaning. If the principles behind the terms in the source text are very profound and hard to explain, then the context is used to reveal the meaning.
          Attached Files
          Last edited by Uwe; 04-03-2007, 03:47 AM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Translation - Final Comments

            While the two previous messages were meant to outline a little the complexity of the issue itself, there are a few comments, I would like to make.

            Librarian, before you wonder, let me give you a little backgorund on myself:

            1. I am a martial artist with 4 decades experience specifically in Shaolin.

            2. I am a professional translator with the relevant University degrees, Phd being one of them.

            3. As a hobby I am translating historical martial arts treatises, and I can read the old as well as the new Chinese. Ask Doc, he recently got a copy of some of my stuff (Doc soon you get more, like it or not...)

            I will not go into the copyright issue here, because that topic was sufficiently beaten to dead here.

            However, for all people volunteering to help with this project, I recommend reading the previous 2 messages, as well as the following:


            Librarian, you state here that you would like to translate the Encyclopedia.

            My Comment
            According to a communication by the Abbot from almost 2 years ago, this is being translated so it will be ready for the 2008 Olympics, because of the quest to eventually include Shaolin Gong Fu in the Oympics and there will be at least a demo during the Olympics. So I recommend to get your story straight here, because your statements do not make too much sense.


            Librarian, I have a small issue here with the graphic you added to the message in the start of this thread.

            My Comment
            Have the volumes been rewritten, because the covers are not the original ones. They were different? So what are you translating here?



            To answer a few other questions here to some of the participants:

            In order to get a translation correct you need at least one editor to review the different translators works and to standardize it to some extent without ruining the translation itself.

            Additionally, you need native speakers as proofreaders. Case in point: Although my English is fairly good, I would never release something without having a native speaker review it and make comments. Add to this the requirements outlined in Brians article, and its far from being a trivial excercise.


            Just to give you a better idea, the small volume on the temple I recently published took almost a year to get it right, and I have considerable resources available.


            Unless you approach it in a serious manner with a comprehensive plan, you are running the risk of just delivering "slapped together garbage" and you might want to think twice before you have your name associated with something like this because a reputation can get ruined fast.


            If anyone is interested, I can provide a more comprehensive email with a detailed apporach on how to go about it... But not tonight....



            Uwe

            Comment


            • #21
              Forum User Chicken

              Librarian... the more I read from you, the more I just fail to understand that you actually comprehend more than half of what you are reading in English. The more I realise that you are talking a lot of B.S..
              Please indicate the parts of your or any other forum users reference that I havenot comprehended


              Just because you put "with all respect" in front of B.S. doesn't mean its not still B.S.
              The reason I am using "with all respect" is to indicate that I am not rying tooffend you

              Why would I contact De Qian? If I show any interest in this matter, he might think I support this effort, which I don't. I know that from a professional standpoint from my understanding of how professional translation is performed, that even if you do find 20 other individuals, who haven't a clue about how to translate properly, and they have a go at it, the product is going to be worthless, because of the lack of knowhow and professionalism in the translation.
              Simply because you are asking proofs of officiality


              Seriously if you want to get the works translated, appoint a judge (a professional translater) find 50 people that want to do the translation. Break the work down into 50 equal parts. Get everyone to pay $250 US dollars into a whip... the first 5 people to finish their translations to the standard specified by the judge win Prizes being 1st 25% of the tote...2nd 12.5% 3rd 6.25%, etc.
              As I have mentioned before I am serious about this project.That means that I am not responsible if you cannot comprehend the obvious.


              By the way are you studying Shaolin ?

              Comment


              • #22
                Forum User Uwe,

                I've been following this thread but now its gotten to the point where a few things need to be straigthened out before this thing gets out of hand.

                I separated this into 2 messages because it should be read separately, because it's a though subject.

                In this first message, I would like to provide you with an articel written by Brian Kennedy in 2002 about the challenges in the translation of Martial Arts classics.

                The article was published in the Euorpean Journal of Martial Arts, and the stetemtns made are as valid today as they were then.

                /////////////////////////Start//////////////////////////
                This is professional work only.The fact that the Translation team consists of many professional translatorsand and the proof reading team of Shaolin and Wushu Masters can quarantee the result quality.

                Even if the slightest bit of the book is not comprehended a 24/7 e mail contact line will be open to help.That is a permanent interaction method that will evolve in a forum form also

                Thanks for your interest

                Comment


                • #23
                  Forum User Uwe

                  While the two previous messages were meant to outline a little the complexity of the issue itself, there are a few comments, I would like to make.
                  Librarian, before you wonder, let me give you a little backgorund on myself:
                  1. I am a martial artist with 4 decades experience specifically in Shaolin.
                  2. I am a professional translator with the relevant University degrees, Phd being one of them.
                  3. As a hobby I am translating historical martial arts treatises, and I can read the old as well as the new Chinese. Ask Doc, he recently got a copy of some of my stuff (Doc soon you get more, like it or not...)
                  Very interesting

                  Librarian, you state here that you would like to translate the Encyclopedia.
                  My Comment
                  According to a communication by the Abbot from almost 2 years ago, this is being translated so it will be ready for the 2008 Olympics, because of the quest to eventually include Shaolin Gong Fu in the Oympics and there will be at least a demo during the Olympics. So I recommend to get your story straight here, because your statements do not make too much sense.
                  Please note that 3 books are included,not only the Shaolin Wugong Book Series.Also a series of coment books right afterthe completition of the project will be available
                  Please send me the ones you are refering to.


                  To answer a few other questions here to some of the participants:
                  In order to get a translation correct you need at least one editor to review the different translators works and to standardize it to some extent without ruining the translation itself.
                  Additionally, you need native speakers as proofreaders. Case in point: Although my English is fairly good, I would never release something without having a native speaker review it and make comments. Add to this the requirements outlined in Brians article, and its far from being a trivial excercise.
                  Just to give you a better idea, the small volume on the temple I recently published took almost a year to get it right, and I have considerable resources available.

                  Unless you approach it in a serious manner with a comprehensive plan, you are running the risk of just delivering "slapped together garbage" and you might want to think twice before you have your name associated with something like this because a reputation can get ruined fast.

                  If anyone is interested, I can provide a more comprehensive email with a detailed apporach on how to go about it... But not tonight....
                  I would like to ask for a few seconds of your time to review who are taking part in this project.As long as you are interested in comprehending how this project will work

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I've been following this email now, and had to make a couple of comments.

                    Librarian, are you affiliated with USSD? It appears so with the www.shaolinsecrets.com link in one of your above posts and they are the only ones who butcher the pinyin of Yong Xin's name to Yun Shin. That website has quite the cheesy marketing scheme that preys on the uninformed and inexperienced in Shaolin, as well as ten year olds.

                    No offense, and I'm sure some will be taken anyway, if the Shaolin and Wushu masters of USSD are the proofreaders you speak of, they are not qualified in my opinion.

                    You just keep referring to the henanchuan email, somehow I doubt the authenticity of that email and that it is even going to De Qian.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Uwe ... THANKS. Very informative posts. I might just pass them on to all the individuals who believe that because I can speak Chinese, of sorts, therefore I must be a translator. From reading your posts, I can now refer to why I'm not a translator, and further give you my respect because you clearly are.

                      Again despite the comprehensive and enlightening aspects of your replies, it appears as if it is still all water off a ducks back to Librarian. With such a massive undertaking as this, you have to get people's buy-in. Doing so you often have to develop your original approach, usually for the considerably better. I see no sign that he 's doing this, and all these support my original hypothesis... Librarian is out there.... and his obsession with this matter, is propelling him even further out there.



                      Chicken

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Chicken,

                        thanks for the comments. Much appreciated. Like you said too many people assume once a person speaks a language he or she can translate also.

                        Please feel free to pass them along as you see fit.


                        Nevertheless, and in order to provide a better understanding on the whole subject itself, I will be pulling a few things from my archive and put it together, and we will ask doc to place it somewhere prominent so in case anyone wanst to undertake such a project, they know what they getting themselves into.


                        Uwe

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Librarian

                          I would like to ask for a few seconds of your time to review who are taking part in this project.As long as you are interested in comprehending how this project will work
                          Librarian,

                          I tell you what. Send me the particulars, and I will let you know.

                          Lets however makes ure that we undertsnad each other here. I am not politically correct and I call things as I see them. If I think your proposal is totally out of line with reality, I will tell you so.

                          Uwe

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Forum User Fourious J,

                            Who are the USSD ?

                            The site Iam co operating with is LINK REMOVED DOC

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Uwe
                              I am not politically correct and I call things as I see them.

                              Uwe
                              Gotta love that.

                              Can you entertain us by posting your response to Forum User Librarian publicly, LOL...

                              I like this Forum User name stuff. Kind of cult like. We should make it mandatory when talking to each other...
                              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                              "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

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                              • #30
                                As Shaolin Master Shi De Qian shouldn't you first clarify the quality of work of Dr.Charles Mattera.Shaolin Master Shi De Qian has given his life to offer knowledge to the ones need breakig the boundries between Shaolin Temple and the world.


                                Can that be seen by removing the notification of the proofreading way www.shaolinsecrets.com uses ?
                                Librarian, USSD is the United Studios of Self Defense. They are the ones that are promoting the book on the Shaolin Secrets website. Charles Mattera is part of their organization as well. You referenced both in your post above. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying in the quotes.

                                If you are not part of their organization, please tell us more about yourself so others can have trust in the project. Who are the Shaolin masters that are reviewing and proofreading? We need specific names. The www.shaolingongfu.com website is not coming up in my browser.

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