Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Whoring in Thailand

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Whoring in Thailand

    Originally posted by Flow
    Doc, certainly did not mean to offend anyone and if I did I apology. Thailand is a wonderful country. But myself not being the typical sanctimonious type of dude, I still find what happens there really disgusting.

    When you see planes full of mature single men leaving for Bangkok every single day (I used to work in an Airport, I've seen the queues before check in...), 365 days a year, you know they're not all business men. Not all pedophiles either but certainly not angels if u see what I mean?!I see them as hogs, consumers...But anyway the Thai know who is who there is no doubt about it, they get the respect they deserve -I hope?

    I say this is also Thailand's fault to encourage and protect these men who come to consumme human bodies... led by poverty to the meticulous destruction of their bodies and souls. And worst is, if they stopped coming, the country would collapse. The young teen will still have to sell her ***** for 10 years before if she's not distroyed she could finance her studies...

    It's not about prostitution itself, it's about the magnitude this phenomenon has taken...I felt the same when I was in Amsterdam, where u know everything is legal...Whores are in a showcase in exhibition, u pass by and make your choice...Most of them being forced by pimps who brought them to Holland from East-Europe telling them they would work in an office. Beaten up, raped, drugged, sullied...That's their everyday life.

    I'd like to hear your views on the subject though, regarding Thailand, do you deny this fact? How do you live it from the inside?
    I find living it on the inside quite easy. I have nothing to do with the whoring and such that goes on here; I, as well as all of my farang (foreigner) friends, expats and such, have steady long term girlfriends and wives. We have no interaction with the nonsense that goes on in certain parts of the island, or, in Bangkok for that matter.

    To think that prostitution, and the concept of prostitution, is limited to Thailand, is very short sighted. I think that if you read my Journals from China, especially the last ones (the Discovery Channel shoot), you'll find that it's overwhelmingly present there, in fact, over the past ten years I've been going, it's gotten to be more "in your face" and less secretive. Young women from poor parts of the country flock to areas where they can make money, and they do so not so that they can get drugs and BMW's (as the whores/strippers/girls in Las Vegas, Los Angeles, San Diego, etc), but so that they can take care of their parents. Imagine that. Prostituting yourself so that you can take care of your mom. It's accepted. It's part of life. Contrast that to the women you find doing similar things in the US, and you'll start to understand that, in a way, it's part of the culture.

    And not only in Thailand and China. But you'll find it in the Philippines, one of the most Christian countries in the world. When I go there to do my annual medical mission (I see and take care of poor villagers in the Cebu area), the overwhelming presence of bars (whore houses) is not easy to disregard. Some of the largest nightclub buildings are outrignt whorehouses. I've been told that Anglis City is an entire city of whoring.

    It's life in Asia. It's the way it is. It's the whole concept of survival for these people. And if you talk to some of these girls, most of them really don't like doing what they're doing, but they do it to take care of their families. And, ironically, to find a husband. Some do, and they move on with happy marriages. It's a bit bizarre if you ask me, but, in some ways, this whole whoring thing that you find here, in a way, is almost like their version of dating for us in the west. To some of these girls, it's a way to find a boyfriend. To some, who have developed "dark hearts", they've descended truly into the pits of hell with this, and get involved with drugs and god knows what else. Some really deteriorate into the lifestyle, much as a good deal of the Las Vegas strippers do.

    I don't condone prostitution. I'm not saying it's a good thing. But it's part of life in MANY parts of the world. In Russia, forget it. It's everywhere. In fact, when we see Russian women here in Thailand, 98% of the time, they're with mafia types. These women are whores, much as they are in Vegas when they go there to strip. Russian bars tend to be whore houses. Eastern European girls travel to the Caribbean to work in island "clubs" to make money, and meet men, all in an effort to support themselves, or, find a newer, better lifestyle. You'll find it all over in China, in Vietnam, Thailand, Philippines, and the US. It's prevalent in Europe, and it's advertised in Holland. To think that this is not a common way of life throughout the world is laughable.

    So, to say that Thailand is one big whorehouse is just wrong. There are many wonderful women here that have never gotten involved in this sort of thing, just as there are many wonderful women in China, the Philippines, Russia, Europe, the US, etc, who have not either. Not sure I can say the same thing about Vegas, oh, another story, lol.

    You probably won't find this sort of thing in Malaysia. In the Muslim dominanted societies, I doubt you'll find prostitution to any degree. But, don't think that these people are all that clean in this regard. Their treatment of women in many ways is far worse than the whole concept of prostitution. The Quran makes it clear that for a woman to claim rape against a man, there must be four other men who have witnessed it. A woman's word is only worth half of what a man's word is worth. Women can be abused at will, with little repercussions. And so on.

    So, you think about what's better. Your repressive society in Muslim dominated worlds, where prostitution is not allowed, or, your other societies in Asia, where prostitution is accepted, and women do as they please. Remember something. These women do this of their own free will. In other countries, that participate in Sharia law, their free will is limited, sometimes, to a significant degree.

    Enjoy your time in Thailand. It's a wonderful country, full of wonderful people. You can live here without any sort of interaction with these "elements" that you seem to think are evil, and, at the same time, have a fruitful and wonderful life.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

    (more comments in my User Profile)
    russbo.com



  • #2
    I am not saying prostitution is right or wrong, but I am never going to forget that damn little Thai girl's tongue.
    I do not have a psychiatrist and I do not want one, for the simple reason that if he listened to me long enough, he might become disturbed.
    "Life can keep providing the rain and I'll keep providing the parade."
    "I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle."
    "Whatever guy said that money don't buy you pleasure didn't know where to go shopping"

    Comment


    • #3
      Very interesting post.

      I though I made it clear that my criticism was of the Thai government and of the Sex tourists...A system than encourages pimping for the men and prostitution for the women. Not a criticism of these women that, how you said, were led by poverty.

      You have different types of "clients". The guy who came to this country for that; he has done research on where to find the best massage parlours, did not even bother learning "hello" and "byebye" in Thai but "suck me" "turn over"...The guy who knows what he came for, to eploit his money as much as he can in order to buy a maximum human bodies and satisfy all his perversions on teenagers in a poor country before he gets back to his rich country and goes to Church on a Sunday with a big smile on his face, telling his mates how many girls he ****ed and how. This one, I despise.

      Then, there is the guy who didn't really come for that, but gets tempted once or twice, by really insistant girls (who really want his money), and just couldn't resist...That's ok, he did not initiate it, he probably had no-one to do it with in a long time (LOL) and won't spend the rest of his stay looking for more. I'm not a puritan, and I'm aware of the substance of human nature...At least I hope.

      It's probably ok for some (not too bad) and worst for others, although f-u-c-king 10/15 men a day minimum is not a dream life for a girl (i guess, r there women here to express their opinion?).

      Your criticism of Malaysia and (moderated) Islam is probably right, I never said that Malaysia was an idyllic country. We're kind of opposing two extremes.

      In the majority Malay women live a good life -it's not Afghanistan. Even the poor have access to a good standard of education, are very protected and loved by their families, you can always see a smile on their face (overgeneralizing here so you can see the pic but it's true), and hopefully they have a large Chinese and Indian community that helps watering down the country's general "feel". This is not the case in other Muslim countries where Islam is the only possible religion, dictated by fear. But let's say that it's out of topic. The rights of women...I just think I'd prefer my daughter to wear a scarf on the head, go to school and get a job than to go to a whorehouse by necessity. That's personal.

      Furthermore, I am perfectly aware that although Thailand is amongst the favourite countries of sex tourists, it is not the only country having this problem. Whoring has always existed, everywhere, as you pinpointed. You can get cheaper, fresher and younger meat in the Phillipines, and over there it is really worst than in Thailand, regarding the girls safety as I heard.

      Then comes the notion of choice...Well if you have a gun on your head and are asked to do something, do you still have the choice? Arguable.

      If led by poverty (the gun on your head) you're told you can make more money than ever in Bangkok or Pattaya to feed your family (atually not to feed them but to make their life easier), it has to be rather tempting. But is there a choice? A real free choice?

      Forget it, wherever there is poverty, there is prostitution. You've mentioned it (China, the Philippines, Russia, Europe, the US, etc...). You have gorgotten to mention the 300 other countries that make our world.

      My argument is:

      If my neighbour beats his wife, should I do the same and feel justified by the fact he does it too? Is there any kind of progress in this kind of thinking?


      to say that Thailand is one big whorehouse is just wrong
      I agree with that. I love this country, the way of life, the culture, the martial arts, the history of independance, the religion, the FOOD everything! I guess when you love you care...But I don't wanna sound naive so hey, there is nothing you and I can do but maybe not to caution prostitution when we go there, and show that we Farangs are not all the same, some of us have dignity and respect for their hosts.
      The East? The West?

      Men and Women, that's all...

      Comment


      • #4
        Maybe your anger should be better directed at the American, British and European men that travel to Thailand, Vietnam, the Philippines, etc, than towards those countries and their governments themselves.

        And these women have choices. There are many other jobs that they can do, but, when you're face with making two hundred bucks a month in McDonalds for a fifty hour work week, or, working in a bar at night with the possibility of making a grand or two a month, and, meeting the guy that's going to give you a "good life", well, for some of these girls, the choice is pretty easy. Some are not happy with what they do, some have a great time doing it.

        I never said it was right. I never said that this was good. I'm just saying, that's the way it is. We don't live in a perfect world. And, it's getting less perfect the older I get.
        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

        (more comments in my User Profile)
        russbo.com


        Comment


        • #5
          The last 5 years I have been doing some tourguiding. It's volunteer work for a non profit organisation which tries to promote travelling in a respectful manner towards nature, local culture, etc. We travel in small groups ( from 5 to 10) and try to interact as much as posible with the locals. Meaning putting our money into the local economy and getting to know people and their culture, sometimes participating in some local NGO managed project. Most trips are about a month.

          I've guided groups in Europe, Africa, Asia and latin America and I never found a country free of prostitution. I had groups in Malasia and saw a lot of prostitution in Kuala Lumpur, men, women and children being offered. The statement about malaysia seems very naive to me.

          Being the tour guide makes you see things differently than you would as a tourist. I mean everybody wants to be friends with the tour guide. Hotel owners invite you to dinner, let you stay for free when you're waiting for your group to arrive. Restaurants, bars, souvenirshops,...etc offer free meals, drinks and comissions.
          Everybody want to be your partner to make sure your groups spends their money in their place.
          And so do the pimps and prostitutes.

          I can't remember how many pimps and whores told me all about their lives and business. Same goes for the times I 've been offered comission on jobs or free rides.

          Some people are into prostitution for not having an alternative. Violent pimps, drugs, debts, being kidnapped, illegal imigrant with no papers... etc. I suppose we all pretty know what I am saying. I've seen and heard things that just make you want to cry.


          But I've also talked to girls who just plain love what they do. Beautiful young women who go out to have fun and if they like some guy take him home to be ****ed by him and get paid for it. Girls without pimps who decide wether or not and by whom they get ****ed.

          Whoring is said to be the oldest profession in the world and I don't see anything wrong with it. Indepent from the fact wether it's to feed yourself or your family or just to be able to buy designers clothes or not wanting to get a 9 to 5 job. People are free to do with their bodies whatever they want.

          Where things start to get ****ed up is when someone starts calculating how much money he can make by making other people offering themselves for payment. Cold economics can turn really easyly into organised crime operations that include any type of violence towards the prostitutes who almost don't make enough to live working various clients all day.

          Some examples:

          an albanian girl that was brought to western europe to work the streets with false promises of decent work. She didn't make enough money according to her pimps so they decided to break her leg and put it back together with a twist so she would collect more money begging. She ended up being the cheap **** for customers who didn't want to pay the normal girls and didn't mind her deformed leg.

          Nigerians girls who do their jobs right on the streets in between 2 parked cars for less than 5 dollar because their pimp threatens them with voodooshit.

          I guess you get the idea.

          If one of my tourists wants to use the services of a local adult girl who is controlling the situation and is doing it out of free will, then I am fine with that. The girl can charge the tourist more than her local clients and both end up "satisfied". I'll even talk to both beforehand to make sure everything happens in a respectful and correct manner.
          But in my groups I do not want people going to whores who are part of some kind of organisations that afterwards takes away the money she just made by being humiliated.I never accepted any of the favors or money I've been offered because I don't want to participate in this and end up being a pimp.

          I believe the problem isn't the whoring but the big money making involved. Drugs, diamonds, whores, oil, weapons are not evil in my opinion. But all these things are the reason for a lot of suffering and bloodshed. There's a lot of money to be made with these "products".

          Reggaelegend Horace Andy sang money, money, money, is the root of all evil.

          Comment


          • #6
            why the **** can't we write the word **** in a ****ing thread about ****ing whores who's profession is just that: to ****.

            Comment


            • #7
              I've guided groups in Europe, Africa, Asia and latin America and I never found a country free of prostitution. I had groups in Malasia and saw a lot of prostitution in Kuala Lumpur, men, women and children being offered. The statement about malaysia seems very naive to me.
              Kuala Lumpur = capital town of the country
              Malaysia = the coutry itself

              U don't speak of the over crouded touristic town as if you were including the whole country...Kuala Lumpur is the less representative town of the country. I've gone to places tours unfortunately don't go...It's as absurd as comparing New York with the whole of the States.

              Whoring is said to be the oldest profession in the world and I don't see anything wrong with it
              Me neither as long as my sisters and cousins don't have to do it...

              People are free to do with their bodies whatever they want.
              Obviously not everyone?--->

              She didn't make enough money according to her pimps so they decided to break her leg and put it back together with a twist so she would collect more money begging
              in my groups I do not want people going to whores who are part of some kind of organisations that afterwards takes away the money she just made by being humiliated
              Very kind though, a good humiliation is worth decent money...Pure charity?

              a non profit organisation which tries to promote travelling in a respectful manner towards nature, local culture, etc. We travel in small groups ( from 5 to 10) and try to interact as much as posible with the locals.
              Interesting way of interacting with the locals I have to say...It's a very deep interaction.

              But I've also talked to girls who just plain love what they do. Beautiful young women who go out to have fun and if they like some guy take him home to be ****ed by him and get paid for it. Girls without pimps who decide wether or not and by whom they get ****ed.
              Sounds cool, there should be some undergraduate course in free Whoring, we could all send our childen so they have a wonderful future and a happy life...But what happens when she gets old and ugly?

              money, money, money, is the root of all evil
              More realistically, in more then 60.000 years of existence, humans did not wait for the creation of money to show signs of evil.

              Drugs, diamonds, whores, oil, weapons are not evil in my opinion. But all these things are the reason for a lot of suffering and bloodshed.
              We are the ****ing infection that destroys whatever it touches. THe important is not the concepts, it's the facts. And as long as you haven't suffered the consequences of one of these personally (and this I don't wish to anyone), you can't talk about them objectively. You might hold a different discourse on Drugs if you were an ex druggie, on whores if you were a 50 years old retired whore, on oil if your whole family had been killed by the bomb of a conqueror who just wants oil, on weapons if one day they had turned on you and taken away one of your limbs...

              Doc,

              Maybe your anger should be better directed at the American, British and European men that travel to Thailand, Vietnam, the Philippines, etc, than towards those countries and their governments themselves.
              My anger is directed towards anyone who selfishly and openly exploits poverty in order to benefit themselves more and more in any way.

              Your argument is valuable but not ultimate. I've worked hard in Mac Donalds for a year flipping burgers when I could have followed some friends in the drug business and make twice as much working 200 times as less...

              But this is not new, the easy way doesn't exist, you alway are detroyed by it at a certain point.

              I was trying to talk about empathy. About imagining yourself in somebody else's situation. And about compation and humility towards the lifes of people that we are 1000ds of miles away from knowing how they actually really feel.

              I can give you a smile and be about to kill myself. I can look like the funniest dude ever and be the most depressive man on earth. I can have a beautiful looking body but be rotten from the inside. I can talk, brag about my success when I am actually loosing my job and falling appart.

              What do we actually know about these people? About what they go through everyday? This no-one will SAY. They might TELL but they'll not SAY...You and I won't see...We'll only see one side of it, usually the one we want to see innit?
              The East? The West?

              Men and Women, that's all...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by flow

                Your argument is valuable but not ultimate. I've worked hard in Mac Donalds for a year flipping burgers when I could have followed some friends in the drug business and make twice as much working 200 times as less...

                But this is not new, the easy way doesn't exist, you alway are detroyed by it at a certain point.[\quote]

                Selling drugs is illegal, prosecuted, and not commonly accepted behavior in Asia. Prostitution is illegal, not prosecuted, and very commonly accepted, in Asia, and BY Asians. Most of the men who frequent Philippine whores, for example, are Philippine men. You find the same thing in Thailand, it's just not done in the "western" areas where tourists are found.

                [quote}I was trying to talk about empathy. About imagining yourself in somebody else's situation. And about compation and humility towards the lifes of people that we are 1000ds of miles away from knowing how they actually really feel.
                I'm very empathetic touwards these people. And I usually go out of my way to do what I can to help them. I do medical missions in the Philippines. I send money to families in the Philippines and Thailand. I create jobs with my school here to help other Thai families. I support the local police financially. I make no money on any of these ventures myself.

                But, for whatever I do here and there, it doesn't make a dent in the whole problem. The issue is too large. The people here get by doing what they think they can do best. And whoring, though we westerners really look down upon it, is accepted behavior here. No one besmirches any young woman for doing it. IN fact, in the Philippines, families send their daughters to some of these whorehouses to make money for the rest of them.

                It's not a perfect world. And Asian "culture" is not western culture. I understand your viewpoints however, and I do agree with you.
                Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                (more comments in my User Profile)
                russbo.com


                Comment


                • #9
                  Flow, you sound like your pretty much against prostitution in any form. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but if you are, there's no reason to say your not and then criticize someone for helping another find a girl who get's to keep the cash...

                  Anyway, I agree that, most likely, this buisness will get to the woman/man doing it eventually, but I thought I would just spread a bit of my knowlage on this matter.

                  I'm not too proud to say that I do participate in prostitution. I didn't come to China looking for that but in my small town it's in your face. I would much rather have a girlfriend and do that with her, but as it turns out most of the single Chinese women are virgins and will remain that way untill they get married. No Shit ! And I have no intentions of living here for two or more years and not getting laid. I know that may not speak so highly of me but it's the truth.

                  So I wanted to address the question "What do we actually know about these people, what the're going through every day ? I'm sure many of the prostitutes in the world have shitty lives.
                  One of the girls that I've "visited" I've begun to get to know a bit. We talk a lot and she loves to listen to my Ipod. She loves American music !!! So she's 19 and cute as can be. We've talked all about her profession. Here's her story. Again I know this is only one case, but I thought I would tell it as it IS one of the many answers to your question.

                  Her family is rather poor and could only afford to send one of the two sisters to school. Unfortunately for Xiaoxiao her sister was a better student so Xiaoxiao's education stopped at primary school. Because of that she couldn't get a decent job of any kind. Cleaning people in China are usually older, and McDonalds employees need an education to get the job. Even most restaurants didn't want her. She had a friend who's a Ho and was making big bucks but that job wasn't for Xiaoxiao, atleast not yet. So at 17 she met a nice, slightly older guy, and hoped he would take her out of this shitty situation. Well, he wanted to f**k even though they weren't married. She didn't want to but was afraid if she didn't he would leave and if she did he might make her his wife. Too bad she got pregnant. Well a 17 year old Chinese girl living with her parents isn't allowed to date, much less have a baby, so she had to get an abortion. Of course the guy split. Now she was in debt, not a virgin, and not feeling very good about herself. So she started to work with her friend, the Ho.... Now she's 19. She usually has four to five guys a nite. She doesn't work under a pimp but usually works with one because it's easier to to find clients. She hates doing it for a living and every time she has a couple dollars saved up she usually stops and tries to find a different job, but thank's to her lack of an education she goes back to whoring. So now she's doing just what Doc said, looking for a man to once again take her away from her shitty situation. She seems to want me to be that man, and a tiny piece of me would like to play captian save a ho ! But I'm dating two other girls here, one of which already has my heart.

                  So that's the story. How does she feel ? Like shit every day and every time she lays down and spreads her legs. She said she hates herself for doing it and wants to cry nearly every time she does. The job hasn't gotten to her yet. She's still a wonderful, sweet, precious girl at heart. Maybe one of the times she stoops working she'll find another job and never go back to selling herself. Who knows. Maybe she'll meet a man to marry her. She's even invited me to come back to her house and meet her parents ! That's what boyfriends and girlfriends here do when the want to get married. What ever she does, she'll have to do it soon as Most of the prostitutes in China don't keep whoring past 21. 19 is the average age for the whores here.

                  Theres my two cents....
                  "Winners turn to losers, losers are forgotten..." - A Tribe Called Quest

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    in my previous post I tried to talk about prostitution in two different ways:

                    1. The ****ed up way, which is most prevalent and I didn't think needed to be explained by me.

                    2. A more respectful way.

                    I tried to separate the two but apparently it seems I didn't make myself clear enough. That's why I'll reply to yours quotes, Flow.

                    HTML Code:
                     Kuala Lumpur = capital town of the country 
                    Malaysia = the coutry itself
                    
                    U don't speak of the over crouded touristic town as if you were including the whole country...Kuala Lumpur is the less representative town of the country. I've gone to places tours unfortunately don't go...It's as absurd as comparing New York with the whole of the States.
                    Kuala Lumpur houses almost 1.5 million people in a country of 26 million. I think it's save to make a reference to KL when talking about Malaysia. It's true that almost all country make distinctions between their capital and the rest of the country, but that does not make prostitution in Malaysia non-existent.

                    Before touring groups in Malaysia I had visited the place by myself and you might not take it from me but I saw prostitution in other places as well. Wether it's peninsular Malaysia or Borneo, it doesn't matter, they have whores. I am not saying every place is packed with them but they are there. In KL it's obvious, in Kota Kinabalu it's less and in Kota Bharu it pretty hidden.

                    In Belgium you'll find a lot of whores in Brussels, but not in a lot of the smaller towns. That doesn't mean I can't say we have whores in Belgium

                    For your next reaction:

                    HTML Code:
                         Quote:                                                 People are free to do with their bodies whatever they want.                                    
                    Obviously not everyone?--->
                    
                         Quote:                    She didn't make enough money according to her pimps so they decided to break her leg and put it back together with a twist so she would collect more money begging
                    Like I said, I tried to show two different ways of prostitution, a ****ed up and another way. If you go cutting and pasting my words they obviously contradict because they're two different things.

                    She was free to accept the proposition to go to western Europe when some mafia guys lied to her and told her they would have a job for her. If people in Albania got better information she might have known to say no. She thought she would have a brighter future this way. But I am not saying she got herself into it. The mafia tricked her.

                    next one:

                    HTML Code:
                         Quote:                    in my groups I do not want people going to whores who are part of some kind of organisations that afterwards takes away the money she just made by being humiliated              
                     Very kind though, a good humiliation is worth decent money...Pure charity?
                    I'll refrase this for you: In my groups, where I have no control whatsoever over who and what kind of person signs up, I do not want adult people going to whores. If there happens to be a participant that seems desperate to get laid and it looks like in free time the first thing he'll do is find a hooker then I prefer the whore not to be part a mafiastyle organisation that abuses the girls to do the humiliating work and after it take away their money.

                    In my 5 years of experience this has happened very few times and I was not pleased with it.

                    You can read the whole thing again and change the tourists for a local. Because prostitution is not just a tourist thing.

                    next:

                    HTML Code:
                         Quote:                    a non profit organisation which tries to promote travelling in a respectful manner towards nature, local culture, etc. We travel in small groups ( from 5 to 10) and try to interact as much as posible with the locals.               Interesting way of interacting with the locals I have to say...It's a very deep interaction.
                    That was just too easy. Sarcasm always has a nice ring to it, doesn't it. But this was not the right time to use it.
                    The organisation has its rules and ethics. People who sign up not always share these views but just looked for the cheapest way to travel as being non profit makes it the cheapest.
                    The interaction I refer to is for example going to a small town in The Gambia, work the land, take part in the daily chores and help build the local school during the day and at night sit down and drink tea or dance to their drums.

                    It's just plain obvious that promoting prostitution is not part of our idea of travelling. The fact that you cut and paste it like this says more about you than it does about the travel organisation.

                    HTML Code:
                         Quote:                    But I've also talked to girls who just plain love what they do. Beautiful young women who go out to have fun and if they like some guy take him home to be ****ed by him and get paid for it. Girls without pimps who decide wether or not and by whom they get ****ed. 
                                                     
                    Sounds cool, there should be some undergraduate course in free Whoring, we could all send our childen so they have a wonderful future and a happy life...But what happens when she gets old and ugly?
                    Free whoring? I wrote "...and get paid for it", also implying that they set the price. There are actually students who pay part of their studies by prostitution and leave it when they graduate and get a good job.

                    An example: A student flat with scandinavian interchange students in Spain. The international students are all about parties and having sex with various nationalities, and these girls are also. The parties got very expensive and so after a while they started charging the guys who they had sex with at the parties at their place. They had fun, had sex with guys they chose and threw a new party with that money. They never felt humiliated by anyone, they thought the guys were silly to pay them, because they would have gone to bed with them anyway.

                    When she gets old and ugly? I once read an article about a Belgian or Dutch hooker who had received customers in her own house her whole lifetime and she was over 60 and still kept working even if financially she didn`t need to anymore.


                    HTML Code:
                    You might hold a different discourse on Drugs if you were an ex druggie, on whores if you were a 50 years old retired whore, on oil if your whole family had been killed by the bomb of a conqueror who just wants oil, on weapons if one day they had turned on you and taken away one of your limbs...
                    You think Colombian drug cartels killed all those people because they were high on drugs?? No, they kill because there is a huge market paying big money to keep the industry going and make incredible amounts of money.

                    Is it the oil in the ground that threw the bomb??? No, it's the ruthless moneymaking company that has the means to get away with this because they make so much money by slling the oil.

                    You think a machete will cut of your arm by itself??? It's the person holding it.

                    Is a stupid little rock responsable for civil war in Sierra Leone??? No, it`s not. It the money that can be made by selling the diamonds that corrupts the minds of people.

                    So let me ask you this. Is a whore evil? No, it's just that a lot of people want to turn them into moneymaking machines. You as a person can choose to participate in this or not.

                    It's the money of the customer that keeps this going. As long as there are people willing to pay for sex, there will be prostitution. And as long as there are people who don`t care about how this affects the girls horrible situations will exist.

                    It's basic economics. If there is a demand, someone will provide, Wether it's bread, cars, oil, diamonds, weapons, drugs or sex.

                    I did some volunteer work with child refugees who end up in prostitution. Horrible stories, makes your heart bleed and yet some of them, once they turn 18 and have been provided with a flat and a job, reuturn to their pimps because according to them it`s less work than 9 to 5.


                    You've got poor and rich, and a lot of poor are willing to do anything if paid for by the rich. The rich should have the moral not to amke the poor do some of the things they make them do.


                    So what do you think about porn? people getting paid to have sex on camera. You think it's ok to buy a porno flick? You never knowthe reasons why these people took the money for the job. There's famous rich pornstars and there poor suckers who deeply regret they did it.
                    What about dating services that get paid big money for presenting european and american man a list of eastern euopean, african and asian women to get married and fly them over. Is this prostitution?
                    What about Cuban boys and Girls that seduce tourists to make them fall in love with them to marry them and get papers to leave the country. Once they leave the country, they divorce and leave the tourist heartbroken. Is this prostitution or are they just ways to get out of the country and their poverty?

                    It's not always easy to judge.

                    Well that's about what I have to say on the subject

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Is it the oil in the ground that threw the bomb??? No, it's the ruthless moneymaking company that has the means to get away with this because they make so much money by slling the oil.
                      Alright that's pretty much what I was trying to say when I said that:

                      We are the ****ing infection that destroys whatever it touches. THe important is not the concepts, it's the facts
                      But hey it doesn't matter.

                      I find that my twisted answer actually helped me to get a much more comprehsensible answer from you, and I can see what you meant much better now. It's just the way you wrote it at first that got me confused regarding where you were standing. I now understand that if one of your clients really wanna get laid you'll help him find the right person, so that at least it doesn't encourage the really vasty local mafias, and that's a rare thing...That's cool.

                      About Malaysia, they may be whores hidden a bit everywhere (i've never been to Borneo), but it obviously is not the reputation of the country. A sex tourist would rather choose Holland, Thailand and cie...But it doesn't mean there is not whoring at all, but the proportions are just not that high...Furthermore, I'd be really careful because if caught with one over there by the religious (the ones you can't bribe) you could end up in serious trouble (including 20 slashes with a whip on your back or worst).


                      Sarcasm always has a nice ring to it, doesn't it. But this was not the right time to use it.
                      The fact that you cut and paste it like this says more about you than it does about the travel organisation.
                      Well it's true that I could do something like:

                      I am a nice guy and a hate assholes!
                      Into

                      I am a asshole and I hate nice guy
                      That wouldn't be very nice innit. But I just like to be offensive in my arguments so the discussion is not only a "yes I agree" or "no I disagree"...Just to get people started, whether it annoys them or not. And I'm happy because it allowed you to give more details on what you do. A nice argument is a dull argument innit?

                      Free whoring
                      I meant "pimp free whoring"


                      So let me ask you this. Is a whore evil? No, it's just that a lot of people want to turn them into moneymaking machines. You as a person can choose to participate in this or not.
                      I just pity these girls, just read Baiwanxi story, she is being used as a **** doll 5 times a day at 19, and her future is next to screwed...I still see them as victims more as initiators. However I understand they are some nyphomaniac around who do that for fun, or who just really love doing it...I just say that's a relatively small percentage of them.

                      I did some volunteer work with child refugees who end up in prostitution. Horrible stories, makes your heart bleed and yet some of them, once they turn 18 and have been provided with a flat and a job, reuturn to their pimps because according to them it`s less work than 9 to 5.
                      That's what they'd say, but we're not in their souls. I just think that after years of childhood prostitution they just can't be "Mr normal" that easily.

                      Baiwanxi,

                      Flow, you sound like your pretty much against prostitution in any form
                      Yea I am against it, I can't help but to think it's wrong. I just feel bad for these girls, sometimes if I see one in the street I'm like what if it was your mom or your sister, or your child...I just coudn't accept it as normal, cool, it's ok, that's how it works.

                      That's all I can say, as men we have needs, getting laid is number 4 (after Drink Seat Sleep). What you do is waht you do and I certainly wouldn't juge you on that, and at least you have the balls to talk about it. I respect you for that.


                      Doc,

                      I do medical missions in the Philippines. I send money to families in the Philippines and Thailand. I create jobs with my school here to help other Thai families. I support the local police financially. I make no money on any of these ventures myself.

                      But, for whatever I do here and there, it doesn't make a dent in the whole problem. The issue is too large. The people here get by doing what they think they can do best. And whoring, though we westerners really look down upon it, is accepted behavior here. No one besmirches any young woman for doing it. IN fact, in the Philippines, families send their daughters to some of these whorehouses to make money for the rest of them.
                      You do more than anyone for these people, don't forget that if you helped one person even tiny bit only you still made a big difference. One person IS a big difference. Two is huge and three is enormous.

                      Call me an Idealist, but you see, I don't go to Church, I don't follow any religious shit, I might be the greates sinner of all times, but I am still a Christian. Not the good Samaritan, not "Mr perfect", not "Mr blame you", just plainly accepting that living ina ****ed up world does not leave place for pessimism, when you have nothing else that a bit af air in your lungs for a couple of years...
                      The East? The West?

                      Men and Women, that's all...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yeah, I definitely put myself out there to be judged. And if people do, that's fine. I try my best not to judge others, but I am human and still find myself doing it from time to time. It would be easy to look at myself and think of me as a perverted American getting his jollies in China if I didn't participate in the loving up of a whore. So I can understand.

                        The difference with me and many others that may "participate" is that I like to talk to the girls. I truley don't see them as less than human for what they do. I like them to know that. That's how I came across this girls story.

                        Again, I would much prefer to have a girlfriend here, and in fact I'm currently working on that. But I don't. I also don't have many friends here. And female interaction is something I miss horribly. I get that, to an extent, when I pay for it.
                        I'm not trying to justify why I do it, just putting myself out there so you all can see what's going on in my head.

                        But now we're a bit off of the subject, so let me bring it back home. I have yet to see any 12 year old, 14 year old, or 16 year old whores here, as I've heard Thailand has the're share. And that's just plain wrong in my book !!! That grown men, 30, 40, 50's would go to Thailand just to get a 12 year old,,,,, now that's some sick shit !

                        But who am I to judge. ha
                        "Winners turn to losers, losers are forgotten..." - A Tribe Called Quest

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by baiwanxi
                          Y have yet to see any 12 year old, 14 year old, or 16 year old whores here, as I've heard Thailand has the're share.
                          I have yet to see an underage girl in any of these "bars" that are prevalent in some areas of Phuket, Bangkok, etc. If that sort of shit is going on, it must be well hidden. And from what I understand, the police here are really on the lookout for that crap.

                          Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It's just not "visible". But, who am I to judge, I don't go looking for it.
                          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                          (more comments in my User Profile)
                          russbo.com


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Interesting. I had heard, ever since I knew what a prostitute was, that that was going on in Thailand. Nice to know that, even if it is, it's not "accepted" like I was under the impression it was. Of course, I only heard from friends who hadn't been there either so...........
                            "Winners turn to losers, losers are forgotten..." - A Tribe Called Quest

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It must have been around five years ago. maybe more.

                              It was just another boring night in Las Vegas. So, I and a few of my friends did what we occasionally did on those just another boring nights in Las Vegas. We went to church. Pay some homage to the princesses.

                              Vegas has tons of strip clubs, and even more young ladies who are willing to bare most of it for a few bucks. It's entertaining not in a visual sort of way, as most people would imagine, but more in an interactive sort of way. What comes out of the mouthes of princesses on any given night can range from utterly bizzare to absolutely comical.

                              She came plodding out of nowhere. I just had not seen her coming. Some young thing, who later claimed to have been 19 (this was back in the times when in certain areas of Vegas, you had to be 18 to work in these clubs). She had the usual and commonly accepted tight fluorescent scanty thing on, which made her stick out amongst the hundred or so other young scantily clad pretty young things running around. Can't really remember her face, or most anything else about her, other than her approach.

                              The usual approach.

                              "Wanna dance?" They lunge into your lap, curl up close to your chest, and reliably say those famous two words.

                              To me, she looked like she was 16. Looked far too young to be in a place like that. I was a bit astonished, not only at her young appearance, but at the speed and secrecy she had used to capture my lap without my knowing, or being able to prepare for it.

                              "Wanna dance?" The limits of her vocabulary were astonishing. "Huh? Wanna?"

                              I was so surprised, that my usual ability to return superlative conversation with even more superlative conversation, was stunted. I resorted to just a simple, honest, straightforward response. The only thing that could have been uttered, given those circumstances.

                              "Does your mommy know that you're working here?"

                              And, without blinking an eye, I got a simple, honest, straightforward response back.

                              "She's right over there, do you want to ask her?"



                              Mom, in her late thirties, was stripping, and competing for cash, with the younger girls. Including her daughter.

                              So, I'll step up to the plate and throw a curveball into this conversation.

                              I'll suggest that some women LIKE being whores.
                              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                              "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                              (more comments in my User Profile)
                              russbo.com


                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X