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Shaolin Temple Clones: I want to make a temple!

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  • Shaolin Temple Clones: I want to make a temple!

    Dear Dr Russell,


    Congratulations on the undeniable success of your website!

    I must admit that I first wandered in with a dose of scepticism - as I always do when it comes to things recommended as "the best" in their category. But... hats off! Your work is indeed very impressive! Especially that, in my experience, there aren't many sites which can lay claim to being both substantially informative and fun to browse.

    There is, however, one question which has preoccupied me for quite some time, and for which I cannot find specific answers even on russbo.com.
    Perhaps you might be able to help me out. The issue is as follows.

    Over the past couple of months or so, I have come across a number of various martial arts organizations, schools, institutions... many of which call themselves "Shaolin [something-or-other]," boasting, or implying, links to the Shaolin Temple as their Alma Mater, so to speak. I am not concerned about their 'authenticity', or their 'raison d'etre'. What I would very much like to know is what it would take (other than money) for a Shaolin monk to open/construct a 'Shaolin [sister-] Temple' outside China.

    I would imagine that there might be a central organization which coordinates, oversees, perhaps controls (?) any work carried out on this kind of project; I surmise that an existing martial arts training centre must fulfil certain requirements before it becomes a temple strictly speaking. But, all in all, as you can see, I am groping in the dark. Is there some consensus at all as to what exactly needs to happen for a (new) Shaolin Temple to come into being?

    I really do hope that you might be able to dispell at least some of my (admittedly profound) ignorance regarding this matter. I would greatly appreciate any information you might be able to offer.


    I will be looking forward to your reply,

    With kind regards,

    xxxxxx
    Thanks. The "success of the website" all depends upon what criteria one considers when evaluating it. Let's just say its been a twelve year journey. Some good, some bad, mostly worthwhile. I think. I lie in bed sometimes wondering why I bother.

    The plethora of "Shaolin schools" amazes me. In fact, if you google shaolin temple, one of the highest ranked sites at this time originates I think from Italy or Mexico. It's a school, run by some guy in his mid thirties, who claims to be a "shaolin master" who has trained in genuine Shaolin martial arts for thirty six years. Not bad for a guy who looks like he's thirty six years old. And, what I find amazing, is that he claims on his site to have solely trained in the real stuff. I guess someone should tell this moron that thirty six years ago, finding a real Shaolin master outside of China was basically an impossibility. The mainland Chinese didn't exactly travel much, being preoccupied with things such as war, the Cultural Revolution, etc. Thirty six years ago found Shaolin Temple fairly empty, with all of the monk masters having scattered to various parts of China. But, he's been training in Shaolin for thirty six years. Oh well. People believe him, so I guess that's all that matters. Reality and perception. Two very different things.

    Two points need to be taken from this little story. First, you're going to find a lot of bullshit in the world of martial arts. Everyone, their grandpa, and their dog is a master. And these days, with Shaolin being "hot", everyone is a Shaolin master. And, if you pay enough money to the guy in charge, you can be a grandmaster too. Personally, from my experience, I've found a wide diversity of people in the martial arts, from people with PhD's, to the average uneducated moron on the street. Some people would say that there's far more of the latter than the former. But put a group of uneducated people, with insecurities, into positions of adulation, and you get bullshit. You have to, for only bullshit can support some, if not all of their claims.

    The second point is, wherever you go, "there is a Shaolin monk under every rock". Everyone is a monk. I'm amazed at how many of these "guys", either come out of China or elsewhere, and claim to be monks. The idiot that I spent two years, and tons of time and money to bring over, in my effort to open a school, turned out to know less Buddhism than I did. And, he really turned out to be terribly dishonest, duplicitous, and disloyal, not only to me, but to his true master. He ended up being less of a monk than I am, and I'm just your common everyday male whore who hangs out in strip clubs. Frankly, I got more honesty from the young ladies with their bare breasts than I did from this so called "Shaolin monk", and you should hear the stories that I've heard with these scantily clad young ladies sitting on my lap. But, these stories are not uncommon; in fact a "Shaolin monk" who is very famous internationally, and who has been the subject of web sites and televsion documentaries, is really only some wushu team member who abandoned his wife and children in China, stayed at the wushu guan for two months trying to get on a performance team, and then subsequently defected. He's found success with his new life as a "Shaolin monk". If you look at his behavior historically, of course, his actions tell otherwise. But, hundreds if not thousands of people believe him, and, believe "in him". I guess that's all that matters.

    Herein lies the problem. The aformentioned bullshit that you find with the martial arts world in the US and other places, also exists in Shaolin. You have to be really careful as to who you lend your allegiances to. The real guys exist, you just will have more trouble finding them. And, at this time, with the changes in the temple over the past ten years, there are less and less of the real ones, and more and more of the "gong fu students in orange robes" running around. As one of our russboians pointed out to me a while back, "theres a shaolin temple on every street corner". She was talking about Europe. You'll find the same in the US.

    Nobody regulates any of this. Shi Yongxin, to his credit, attempted to years ago, by trying to trademark the Shaolin name. He did so in many countries. Basically what he was trying to do was to keep people from using the name. Good idea. Bad execution. He ended up in court in Austria with a guy who had a "Shaolin Temple Austria". Now, I know the guy that runs it, and he means well. I'm sure that what he's doing is legitimate and worthwhile. But, honestly now, does he really have the right to use that name? The court thought so; Yongxin lost and a settlement was reached. But had this gentleman opened a "McDonalds Temple", the outcome would have been much different. Granted, Yongxin may appear to be doing this to regulate the field a bit. It's a worthy cause in my opinion. But most would agree that given Yongxin's past history, the move to regulate "Shaolin" might have more financial overtones to it than beneficient ones. In fact, Yongxin has gotten into bed, financially and otherwise, with some major players in the martial arts world in the US, granting them to right to call themselves "grandmasters", and their schools the rights to call themselves "Shaolin" schools. Not bad for a martial arts organization that teaches Japanese kempo. It goes on and on.

    So, get used to the idea that everyone and their little dog too is affiliated with Shaolin. The wushu team members from China that defect here use the mantra, no reason why the Mexican from South Central Los Angeles who runs a school in Las Vegas can't refer to himself as a "Shaolin Priest", ordained from the Shaolin Temple in Taiwan. Alrighty then. All hail.

    There is no way of regulating what people call themselves. Period. You're not dealing with doctors or lawyers who have to get licensing from a professional board. And getting a "black belt" from an organization, is not a professional board. There is one very large martial arts school in the US, which was started by an individual with a second degree black belt from some other organization. He left that, promoted himself to tenth degree in his new school, and marketed it well. It's hugely successful in the US now. Again, bullshit reigns.


    The other gist I get from your question, is that you're interested in bringing one of these guys over to start a school. I strongly suggest, don't do it. I have, and I'm writing a book about it now. It was a disaster. The school was a success, the problem is, you find out that your little Chinese "monk" eventually starts to develop an uncontrolled ego, and starts wanting to have everything his way.They discover marriage as a method to stay in the US (they all eventually divorce), and they all think that they're worth is far more than yours. They also don't understand the difficulties that one goes through with respect to obtaining visas. The concepts of paying taxes, being honest, and other things of that nature that are necessary to successfully run a business in America are also foreign to them. But hey, they're Chinese; you'll find this in a lot of Chinese businessman as I'm told. (At least most Chinese businessman are "smart", these guys tend to be "stupid"). Again, as I've said before, deal with an uneducated individual from another country, put him in a position whereby lots of people who are lost in their own worlds need to have something to adulate, and you have a recipe for disaster. A "necessary" marriage, some defamation, many lost friendships, scattered students, and many years of work completely disappear. Well, it's not a good idea, and if we look at it purely from a business sense, you should never open up a business where you have one key man. For if that key man dies, or decides he doesn't like you anymore, your business is over. Trust me, when dealing with these "monks" from China, you're dealing with people with a sub second grade education who find themselves in a position that there are many, many lost US citizens with boring lives, looking for some god to look up to. Sad that these Americans decide to look up to someone who has martial arts skills and little else. It's a fascinating story, when you really sit back and look at all of this. And, it's a sad one. And, a common one.

    That's not to say that getting involved in the Shaolin martial arts is not worthwhile. It's a worthy cause. You just have to fully understand what you're getting involved in. Doing business with the Chinese is not like doing business with others; they have a different mentality when it comes to the business world. Which may be why they're so "successful" at it. Doing business with someone that does not understand the culture, laws and ethics of the country that you're bringing him to, especially an individual with no business or otherwise education, who is new to your world, and who is easily influenced by, and generally, not so intelligent people that he gets involved with, well, its not going to be a worthwhile venture. That is, for you. For him, most defnitely. For this "monk" comes from a world where his future, at best, is either as a policeman in the smoggy streets of Beijing, or, as a coach in some shit school in some dirty polluted village of China.

    My suggestion? Invest your time and money elsewhere. Enjoy the martial arts for what they are and what they mean to you.

    My sincerest apologies for being tardy in this response. I've been overwhelmed with other things in my life, including the new russbo.com.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

    (more comments in my User Profile)
    russbo.com



  • #2
    Prior to the 20th century, many Chinese Scholars looked down on martial artists as uneducated, backwards, country bumpkins. I guess we could still apply that to the majority in the M.A. world today as well.
    "For some reason I'm in a good mood today. I haven't left the house yet, though. "

    "fa hui, you make buddhism sexy." -Zachsan

    "Friends don't let friends do Taekwondo." -Nancy Reagan

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    • #3
      Doc,

      One of the better articulated itterations of your argument that you have made so many times...

      Thanks for posting that.
      practice wu de

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by shaolinstylee
        Doc,

        One of the better articulated itterations of your argument that you have made so many times...

        Thanks for posting that.
        Truer words are rarely spoken...

        Comment


        • #5
          Doc has done it again!

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