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What is "reverse breathing"?

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  • What is "reverse breathing"?

    What's the difference between normal breathing and reversed breathing.Is normal breathing meant for chi gathering only like ba duan jin and others qi gong exercises.And is Reversed breathing meant for using qi like kicks,punches and ying qi gong?
    I guess, like everything else, it all depends upon who you ask. Let's look at what some of the masters of the martial arts have claimed with respect to "reverse breathing". Notice that when you read through these various diatribes, the similarities, and, more importantly, the differences, between these various people's perceptions of this "concept". A concept that we will eventually eviscerate in a not so kindly fashion.




    There is not efficient Qi-Gong without efficient breathing, so here is an article found on the Dragons of Justice website, "practices" section.


    Normal and reversed breathing

    Normal breathing

    A normal breath is very different than the automatic breathing cycle that keep you alive when you are not thinking about breathing. The reason is simple; no one really breath correctly when they are not thinking about it. Some people take in only 11 ml of oxygen per minute, way far from the minimum oxygen your body needs to be healthy. A normal breath is a healthy breath.

    The inhalation should fill your lungs almost completely without straining your abdomen or diaphragm. The breath should naturally fill your abdomen, without raising your upper torso. A deep breath should not even make your higher ribs move. Place your hand over your hearth, where your ribs connect to the sternum, between your solar plexus and your throat. Take a deep breath and feel if your ribs are moving. If they do, you are filling your upper lungs too much and not enough air is getting to the bottom of your lungs. Although it is impossible to keep your rib cage immobile (and that is not the goal), it should move as little as possible without requiring effort.

    When you exhale, let your abdomen rest until the air doesn’t come out naturally anymore, and pull your abdomen in lightly without force. It won’t completely empty your lungs. If your ribs are moving inward or downward too much, it means you lifted them upward while you inhaled, or that you filled the upper part of your lungs too much.


    Breath in
    Abdomen out
    Upper chest normal.

    Breath out
    Abdomen normal
    Upper chest normal


    When you breath normally, it is your abdomen that pushes out slightly and pulls in slightly, as you inhale and exhale. The breathing cycle should not require excessive force, but it should fill your lungs up to 80% of your maximum capacity. To fill your lungs to 100% of it’s capacity require effort, and it is not natural. When you breath out with force, pulling in your abdomen lightly at the end of the breath, empties your lungs to 20% or 10% of it’s capacity. The same for emptying your lungs totally, force is applied more than the natural state.

    To experiment, your can try filling your lungs completely (without hurting yourself) and keep your rib cage as immobile as possible, then keep the air in for 10 seconds and breath out completely, keeping your breath out for 10 seconds. Let all your muscles go and let your body breath without influencing it and look at the difference. Now, do a normal breath, filling your lungs down to your abdomen with at least a little effort, but lightly. Keep the air in 3 seconds and let it out without any effort, but a light pulling inward of your abdomen at the end of exhalation.

    This is what we mean by “normal breath”. It will be used in practices that focus on the elevation of self, meditation, mental and spiritual training, while the reversed breath is used in physical development, opening the channels of energy in your body, enhancing your ability to manifest your Chi on the physical plane.



    Reversed breathing

    To clearly understand the principle of reversed breathing, you must first practice accurate normal breathing. This is important to keep your rib cage almost motionless while doing the reversed breathing. You should also understand the principles of Jin, Chi and Shen.

    The reversed breathing cycle is used to concentrate the Chi or energy, in a way that will make it more dense, compacting it so it can become available on the physical plane. It is used to produce Jin from your Chi.

    As an example, forget about the normal breathing method and let the instinctive breath come along. Imagine yourself in a situation of alert, of defending yourself, of being ready for action, and while closing your fists, take in a quick deep breath without thinking. Most of you will notice that the abdomen pulled in while you where breathing in, and in pushes out lightly when you exhale. Experiment a bit.

    When in danger, the body automatically does a reversed breath, getting ready to put energy in a physical action. The quick part was only for the example. The reversed breath method goes as smoothly as the normal breath unless stated otherwise.


    Breath in
    Abdomen pulled in
    Upper chest normal

    Breath out
    Abdomen let out
    Upper chest normal


    When we are working with methods that focus on manifesting physical phenomena, you will be doing reversed breathing. The upper rib cage still doesn’t move, and you should breath slowly and comfortably. As you breath in, contract your abdomen pulling it in lightly. As you breath, let go of your abdominal muscles completely, pushing out lightly at the end of the exhalation, without force.

    --------------------
    Sensei Francois Lepine
    Buddhist Priest of the Hongaku Jodo
    My mother always wanted me to be a Buddhist priest. Really. But, when I was eleven, I got thrown out of the altar boys group, because I couldn't wake up early enough to get to 7AM mass. We altar boys had to get to the church by 0630 to make sure the wine was ready for Father Healy.

    Father Healy never did a mass unless he was semi-plastered. Well, the week that I overslept, Father Healy had to perform mass sober. And what a nightmare that had to be. You only found old wailing Italian widows, crying out for their dead Alfonse, and Giuseppi, at 7AM mass. If I had been old enough to drink, I probably would have also. So, that was the end of my religious career; I became a doctor instead, and I'm not sure my mother ever got over it.

    In my opinion, one thing is clear from our overly knowlegeable Sensei, the Buddhist Priest of the Hongaku Jodo. He is no doubt, a better priest than a physiologist. His understanding of physiologic concepts are minimal, and his self contradictions are rampant. Attempting to clarify or explain his comments and his misunderstandings would take far more than this post deserves. When I feel like writing a book, maybe I'll return to Francois. One day.



    In the meantime, let's look at an explanation of reverse breathing, by your favorite master and mine, Wong Kiew Kit.



    WKK
    Question 8
    What is exactly the difference between chest breathing and reversed breathing? It seems to me that reversed breathing is a deep chest breathing. You also mention in your book that reversed breathing is chest breathing. I am quite confused because other books that I have read seem to differentiate between chest breathing and reversed abdominal breathing. Could I have further explanation from Sifu to clear up my confusion?
    Roy, Indonesia


    Answer 8
    Reversed Breathing is chest breathing in the sense that the practitioner uses his chest to breath, whereas in Abdominal Breathing the practitioner breathes with his abdomen. But Reversed Breathing is not the same as the kind of chest breathing ordinary people use. Herein lies the confusion.

    In ordinary chest breathing one breathes into the chest, and breathes out from the chest. During the in-breath good energy enters the lungs. During the out-breath bad energy goes out from the lungs. Hence his chest rises during breathing in, and falls during breathing out.

    Abdominal Breathing is different. Instead of using the chest to breathe, one uses the abdomen. The practitioner breathes into his abdomen, and out from his abdomen. During the in-breath good energy goes into the abdomen. During the out-breath bad energy goes out from the abdomen. Hence, his abdomen rises during breathing in, and falls during breathing out.

    Some clarification would be helpful here to the western educated. To western educated persons, breathing means taking in and giving out air. In this sense it is impossible to breathe into the abdomen, because the lungs are air-tight and air cannot get to the abdomen from the lungs.

    So to them, abdominal breathing means diaphragmatic breathing, which is as follows. When one breathes in he pushes his diaphragm downward into the abdomen, causing the abdomen to rise, but the air enters the lungs and not the abdomen. When he breathes out, he pushes his diaphragm upwards to the chest, causing his abdomen to fall, and air goes out from the lungs.

    In chi kung, diaphragmatic breathing is not Abdominal Breathing. And what is breathed in and out is not just air but energy. The meaning of chi (qi) is energy – long before air was discovered by modern scientists. So in Abdominal Breathing, when one breathes in, energy goes into the dan tian or energy field at the abdomen, and when one breathes out, energy goes out from the abdomen.

    Reversed Breathing is the reverse of Abdominal Breathing, especially in the rise and fall of the abdomen in relation to breathing in and out. In Abdominal Breathing the abdomen rises when breathing in, and falls when breathing out. In Reversed Breathing the abdomen falls when breathing in, and rises when breathing out. This relationship is similar to that in ordinary chest breathing, but Reversed Breathing is not ordinary chest breathing.

    In Reversed Breathing, when a practitioner breathes in, good energy enters his lungs from the cosmos outside, and at the same time negative energy also enters his lungs but from his abdomen. When he breathes out, the good energy which he has just taken in from the cosmos, goes down into his abdomen, and simultaneously the bad energy which just came from his abdomen, goes out from his lungs into the cosmos.

    The lungs act like an exchange station through which good energy from the cosmos flows into the abdomen, and bad energy from the abdomen flows into the cosmos. Hence, Reversed Breathing is sometimes called Cosmos Breathing, enabling an exchange of energy between the cosmos and our body.
    Cosmos breathing. Moving energy from the stomach to the lungs. Good and bad energy. (Bad energy?) Never learned any of this in college or medical school. All that time in advanced physics classes gone completely to waste. I guess mom was right. I should have been a high Buddhist priest, or a member of the famed Racoon Lodge, or, better yet, the Grand Pooh Bah of the Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo. Norton was always a hero to me, as was Fred and Barney. Well, as with most of what I've read of WKK, it's best left for entertainment purposes.



    Let's try to find something a little more scientific, with respect to this concept of "reversed breathing". I can't remmeber where I found this little gem, but, hey, we learn yet another way of breathing. Complementary breathing...


    Natural Breathing: This is one's innate way of respiration, normal to everyone, without any interference or control by the mind. Although it may well be soft and even, it has the disadvantage of not being very deep.

    Complementary Breathing: In this form one expands the abdomen outwards as one inhales and contracts it as one exhales. As the movement of the abdomen develops, one gradually achieves abdominal breathing.

    Reversed Breathing: This is the opposite of complementary breathing. As one inhales the abdomen is contracted, and as one exhales it is expanded. This method gives greater scope and intensity to the use of muscles in breathing.
    Let's give this guy some credit. He describes the whole natural process of breathing, as being natural. I can respect that. Calls it "complementary" also. OK, we can deal with that. And, finally, a more definitive description of what "reversed breathing" is. Basically, breathe in, suck in the gut. Breathe out, let it hang. Simple.

    The following is a more educated, more classic description of reverse breathing. And, in this lovely little diatribe, we also find out that the arms are connected to the shoulder joint. Bonus!


    Instructions on doing the Taoist Reverse breathing exercise

    Firstly stand relaxed with your feet in shoulder width. Your shoulders must be relaxed, given a little bit awareness to the shoulder joint and observe internally how it is connected with the arms before you start. Likewise try to observe your whole major body joints at once and feel the relaxation with a clam breath before you start. Now relax your mind and swallow your chest . Put your tongue in a way that it lightly touches the upper roof of the mouth and tuck in your chin. Tilt up your pelvis correctly. And now you are ready to begin with the reverse breathing part.

    As i told before, this is done just by reversing our ordinary breathing method, which may be one of the most primitive things that we learned. Ok, now you are breaking the rules!, … hey, just kidding…!

    Begin the breathing exercise by exhaling through mouth. By exhaling, you must clean-out the air by expanding the stomach, the sides of the stomach and the back side of the stomach, that means all the part of abdomen itself. After that inhale slowly and steadily through your nose and at the same time pull-in the stomach. And also you should lift up the the perineum with the inhalation. Now exhale the air through your mouth and at the mean time push out your stomach and let your perineum relaxed. Do all these things gently and relaxed. Don’t ever get tensed up while doing this reverse breathing exercise. This breathing exercise can be used while on “zhan zhuang“, the ’standing meditation’. And like this taoist breathing exercise, we can also use the Buddhist breathing exercise along with zhan zhuang meditation. Zhan zhuang is very powerful and is practiced in many kung fu schools. This will boost up the cultivation of chi, the incredible internal energy. (worldofmartialart.com)
    Perineum. Big word. For those of you who don't know what it is, it's that lovely little area that your girlfriend just loves to have played with. For those of you without girlfriends and can't afford to buy one, it's that area between your ass and your nut sack. Oops! Dirty words! Now I'm breaking the rules! Hey, just kidding...!

    It appears that the Taoists have as much anatomical knowledge as do the high Buddhist priests. How anyone can lift up their perineum when they inhale is beyond me. The muscles in the human body that are in that area don't exactly do that sort of thing. Well, I knew a stripper once that could do amazing things with her perineum, but, she wasn't lifting it up necessarily, and she certainly was not inhaling at the time. Hey, just kidding...!

    I guess I'll just never understand where these martial arts gods get their information from. It's entertaining, to say the least.

    But, hey, let's break the rules some more, and stop this kidding around. The following is a great description of "reverse breathing", written by Samuel Abbot. Now this guy knows how to write. Sam, wherever you are, you are my hero. Right up there with Norton, Fred and Barney. Now if you'll excuse me, while you're reading this, I'll just lay on my back, stare at the back of my eyelids, swirl some good and bad energy from my stomach to my lungs, and do some perineum strengthening Keugel exercises.




    Mystic Love
    by Samuel Abbott
    Chapter 8: The Lion's Breath

    I laid on my back in the sun with my eyes closed, staring at the back of my eyelids. I have had some of my best meditations while laying on my back. I did the same as I have often done, swirling the energy around inside my body. It felt good. As my energy increased, I began to see a white light around the edge of my peripheral vision. It came in pulsations. Then it came form just the top, then it started to come from all sides at once. I also started to see blue light and then light green. "These colors are not at all normal to see when the eyes are closed," I thought. But, this was sight I was experiencing, not something in my mind only. The white light became brighter. This lasted some time. I started to play with the flow of energy to see what it would do to the light. I sent the energy to my penis. The pattern immediately changed. It started in the center of my vision instead of at the sides. The light was circular in shape and whitish. The background around the central light was blue. I saw little circles vibrating all over the surface of this image. It was like bubbles were moving all around and continuously popping as new bubbles came to life. When this went away, I put my hand over my eyes and I saw dark blue with little dots moving rapidly around. This all was accompanied by a very pleasant feeling. At times, I was almost overwhelmed with a joyous feeling.

    I came in after my sunbath and Dian said to me, "Jack, I have a lesson on the PC muscle for you."

    "The what?"

    "PC muscle, that's the muscle between your legs that you use to stop peeing with."

    "Oh. I see. Are you afraid I'm going to pee the bed? What is this all about?"

    "I thought so. You've never read about this before."

    "Nope."

    "Learning this lesson will help you control your ejaculation response and it will help me have better orgasms. Interested?"

    "We're sex scientists aren't we? I'm interested." I reached over and kissed her. "I'll do whatever you say . . . teacher. Just keep your felt pen away from me."

    "Reach down and feel the flat place between your balls and your anus."

    "You want me naked for this? Are you getting naked for this?" She ignored my questions.

    "Better yet, go get a portable mirror. I think I have one in my top dresser drawer." I came back with the mirror and without my clothes. She motioned for me to sit on the edge of the bed.

    "Sit so you can see down there using the mirror. Now feel that area and crimp the muscles that you feel. They're called the PC muscle. Could you manage to go pee if you had to?"

    "A man can always pee. It's one of those animal instincts we are still carrying around."

    "Go take a leak then, and once you get going, stop the pee from coming out, then release your muscle and let it come out. Repeat that back and forth all the time you're peeing. The muscle you're using to stop the pee from coming out are the PC muscle."

    I went into the bathroom and did what she told me to do. I kept a hand down on that flat area, the perineum, while I peed and every time I stopped the flow of pee, that area tensed up. I returned to the bedroom. "OK. I've found my PC muscle. What do I do with it?"

    "Weightlifting. Here's your first assignment. While driving to and from work each day for the next two weeks, listen to some music with a beat and crimp this PC muscle and release it every two seconds, two seconds on, two seconds off. Every 20 times, hold it as tight as you can for 10 seconds but work yourself up to 20 seconds of constant squeezing. The book says you'll get tired at first. Over the next two weeks, this weak muscle is going to improve. I want you to work up to being able to do this exercise 500 times without stopping. Include the periodical 10 to 20 second squeezes as well. I'm going to do the same workout. Got it?"

    "Like I'm going to the gym so I can a be a super peeing machine."

    "Very funny. This muscle is what the Taoist call the Gates of Life and Death. It's very important to them. If this muscle is weak, then your energy will leak out into your legs and into the ground, shortening your life. The better toned this muscle is, the less energy leaks out. I'll just give you the whole story and then I won't have to tell you later. This PC muscle is the one that pumps out your semen when you ejaculate. So, if you feel yourself getting close to exploding, stop stimulating your penis (don't even pull out of me, if we're in intercourse) then squeeze this PC muscle with all your might and hold it there until the urge to ejaculate goes away. As long as you keep this muscle held in a tight grip, it can't work to pump out the semen. It can do only one thing at a time. Another thing that these muscles do just before ejaculation is to pull your balls up close to your body, like cocking a trigger. If you have good control over your PC, then you can stop your balls from being draw into your body. You can also manually pull them out, away from your body to help stop the ejaculation from coming. To further strengthen this muscle, the Taoist attach weights to their balls and increase the amount as they build this muscle's strength and bulk.

    "The Taoist women do the same PC exercises. Squeezing the PC during sex will help me to bring on an orgasm. The Taoist women insert an egg in the virginal channel and hold it there to tone this muscle. They also attach extra weights to this egg with a chain for a greater workout.

    "Jack, I'm going to do the deep breathing that you taught me on our three day camp out, including the part where I move my energy up to my head and back down while I'm exercising my PC. Will you do the same."

    "OK. I've always done this deep breathing while doing my weightlifting ever since I was about 14. It helps me to concentrate on the muscle that I'm working. What I do is to think of the specific muscle that I'm working on while straining to lift the weights. This makes the muscle tingle with energy, which helps me to really feel what I'm doing to my body."

    "Really? I'll have to try doing the same while I lift my weights."

    Two weeks later, we decided to go on an overnight camp out to celebrate our new and improved PC muscles and to test them during sex. "I have another item for us to learn," Dian informed me. "We can work on it while we hike in to the campsite. "It's called the Lion's Breath. But first I need to explain a Taoist breath called reversed breathing and before I can do that, I need to talk about tension. So, let's start from the beginning."

    "What book did you read to learn this?"

    "A book called 'The Human Body Vortex: its Breath and Motion'. But actually, this is all stuff my yoga teacher taught me. In fact, let me show you what the book was trying to say with a basic yoga position. Jack, lay fat on the floor on your back. Good. Now do the full abdominal breath. See how relaxed you can breath while on your back? That is why your father taught you that way. Now lift your legs into the air so they are pointing straight up and then try doing the full breath."

    "This is like rite #2," I mentioned while straining to lift my legs. My abs felt tense. I kept them sticking up into the air.

    "Can you relax while in that position?"

    "No way!" I grunted. "Can I lower my legs yet?"

    "Go ahead. Do you see the difference between breathing while laying flat and with your legs raised?"

    "Sure. One is calming and the other is all tensed up." I sat up and she sat down next to me on the floor.

    "This is the essence of the first part of my lesson. Here's more details from the book. I'll read it to you?
    Hey! Wow. The flat place between your balls and your anus! Where have we seen that before?? Well, I'll let you get back into reading more of this, while I, a certified super peeing machine, imagine blue dots on my eyelids and spray scrubbing bubbles on my penis. Yes, he's finally going to talk about reverse breathing. But first, take the dumbbells off of your balls; don't want the Gates of Life and Death to be stuck closed now, do we. Hey, just kidding...!




    The Cycle of Tension and Relaxation

    I will be referring to this principle throughout these meditation exercises. It is an integral part of almost everything we do and it would be good to understand it so we can more effectively harness its powers.

    Think of the entire universe as a living thing, an intelligent being, for a moment. This being is breathing in and out, creating a cyclic or rhythmic pattern. This cycle effects everything within its body?from our galaxy to our solar system, into earth?s seasons and climates, and right down to the smallest particles of subatomic matter?influencing the behavior of the wide variety of life that lives within its influence. Each of our body's cells are in concert with this far-reaching cycle. Every action and reaction in every corner of our world is in step with this universal pulsation. The sun goes up and it goes down. All things are integrally connected in this way, everything affects everything else. Nothing escapes this process.

    I will call this all-pervasive cycle of nature the Tension-Relaxation Cycle. Your heart is a good example of this pattern. It would soon give out from exhaustion if it didn't take a moment to relax between each exertion. And, it would not be doing it's job if it never put forth effort to pump your blood. These two opposites work hand-in-hand to accomplish any task. "Faith without works is dead," says James and this is part of the same cycle.

    Let me tie this principle more securely to the nature of the human body. As you obey and live by the Laws of Nature, you automatically earn the feeling of relaxation when your body needs to relax. There is nothing wrong with tension. Tension is part of life. Let?s say you were to stand up before a large group of people to give a lecture. You would feel the tension of doing, your body would step up to the task by getting excited, perhaps, or scared to death. This is the tension pat of the cycle. The moment you step down and are finished speaking, your body should move into a natural state relaxation. This is the way that the Tension-Relaxation Cycle as expressed in a mentally and physically healthy human. Problems develop when the stress doesn?t ever let up, such as in a bad work environment, or it the body is out of balance in other ways breaking the cycle.

    Remember the heart, how it rests after each beat. Our entire nervous system should be like our heart, allowing us to move from tension into relaxation as an automatic response. Relaxation is a feeling and can?t be forced onto our body any more than you can change the regular tensing and relaxing of your heart. Relaxation must be earned by living a healthy lifestyle. It is something that works of itself within your nervous system. Relaxation is feeling.
    Tense and Release Method

    The basic idea here is to tense your muscles and then relax them, the idea being that you can more deeply relax a muscle after tensing it. It's not just an idea. It works. Try this?

    Tighten up your toes until they really hurt and then release them. Do it more than once. As the pain fades away, pay attention to the relaxed feeling that follows, then move that feeling from the soles of your feet to your ankles, upward through the legs and around the muscle of your knees and thighs. Let this feeling of relaxation permeate each part of your body, one step at a time, as if the relaxation was a ball of fire or light, softening everything in its path. Try tensing various parts of your body and do the same, moving it from there to the whole body. Try tensing your whole body, every muscle, and then relaxing and see the effect it has on you. Tensing the muscles is the easy part. Learning to let them fall into total relaxation afterwards is harder. Work on it until it becomes a natural part of your body?s response. In this way you are relearning one of your body?s natural cycles.

    Dian looked up and stopped reading. "We already understand basic breathing so I'll skip that part. Here is where it talks about tension and breath."

    Tense Belly Breathing

    The inhale, no matter how relaxed you are, is a building of tension. The exhale is a letting go, relaxation. If you want more energy, then increase the tension on the inhale and increase the relaxation on the exhale. Try this new type of breathing. Expand only the portion of your abs that is below your bellybutton while you breath in (I call this Belly Breathing), but this time, keep a FIRM abdomen. Here are the steps:

    Tense Belly Breathing:

    *Flatten your abdominal muscles and keep then that way.
    *In-breath: from a relaxed breath, feel the tension grow gradually until it is at a peek at the end of the inhale.
    *Out-breath: Move the tension in reverse with a progressive feeling of deeper and deeper relaxation.

    When you do the Tense Belly Breath it is just taking a deeper breath?more tension causes a deeper inhale of energy through your Navel Chakra and builds your energy pressure back up. Better relaxation following the tension means better expelling of inner sickness.

    Dian looked up again and said, "I had to look in another book for a better definition of energy pressure. It said It was like filling a balloon with air?the pressure increases. Our body is like a balloon. It needs a certain amount of energy pressure to be healthy. If the pressure gets low then we are weak and susceptible to disease."

    "Oh. That makes more sense. What does this all have to do with the Lion's Breath?"

    Reversed Breathing

    "Don't jump the guns. Next, I have to explain revered breathing. The idea is that If you add even more tension on the inhale, then you get even more energy. The Taoist have a type of breathing called reversed breathing. To do a reversed breath, you suck your abs IN on the inhale and force them OUT on the exhale?just the opposite of a normal breath. This packs even more energy into your abdominal cavity which further increases your energy pressure. The book said that there were many forms of this revered breathing. The Lion's Breath is one of them. Let's do reversing breathing together. Remember, it's done by tightening as you inhale, and relaxing as you exhale. It's taking a deeper breath of cosmic energy as you breath through your belly."

    We both inhaled while sucking in our bellies. It felt unnatural. I also noticed an increase in energy and I got light in the head. We exhaled while pushing our stomachs out.

    Dian continued, "Here's another yoga position that will help us learn. Lean over and touch your toes while completely emptying your lungs."

    We both bent over and emptied our lungs as much as we could.

    Dian continued, "Stand up and raise your hands high above your head. Breath in with a reversed breath." We both did that. "Now lean back as far as you can, like you're trying to bend over backwards, but of course you can't because your spine isn't going to bend very far. Suck your stomach in so it feels like your stomach is hugging your spine, really suck it in. Hold your breath like this for about 10 seconds." We both did this. I felt energized. "Next, exhale while bending over and touching your toes to completely empty your lungs."

    "Wow! Let's do to again," I said. We did this breath about five times. I felt energetic, like I do when doing my deep breathing and energy movement that my father taught me. "Hey, that's a lot like rite #3."

    "What are rites? You keep on mentioning them. Are they those exercises that you do each morning and evening? "

    "Yep. I'll have to explain them to you sometime, but not now. I want to get going so we can set up camp in the light."

    "Not so fast. First, let's try the Lion's Breath. It's a type of reversed breath. Here's a quote from the book?

    The Lion's Breath

    The Lion's Breath adds sound and a slightly different technique from the normal reversed breath. Inhale any way you like (not necessarily using a revered in-breath). On the first half of the exhale, make an haaa sound. On the second half of the exhale, make an Ahhh! sound (a reversed exhale). On this second half of the exhale, the sound should be louder than the first sound and your belly should move outward, in the opposite direction of a normal breath. This is what a lion does when it roars. His belly moves outward. The Lion's Breath is a special exhale that goes like this: haaa?Ahhh! with the second half of the sound being emphasized and the belly moving outward, not with the normal inward movement.
    Got it? Breathe in, Ahhh!. Breathe out, haaa!

    Ah haa!. Makes perfect sense. Hey, just kidding...!



    What have we learned...

    Well, so far, a lot of material. I don't know about you, but I've learned that the arms are connected to the shoulder joints, and, now, finally, I know where the expletitive "Ah Haa!" comes from. Let's view all of this as whimsical nonsense, and look at the realities of normal respiration. In a simplified manner.

    The lateral limits of the chest are made up of ribs and intercostal muscles; beneath that layer is a thin slippery membranous sheet called the pleura, above that layer lies the chest wall musculature, ribs and skin. At the bottom limits of the chest we find the diaphragm, a large, thin sheet of muscle that separates the chest from the abdomen. It too is lined with pleura. The upper limits of the chest is basically the neck; it has many structures, but the important one with respect to respiration is the trachea (the windpipe). It is the conduit for air, entering in from the outside atmosphere during inspiration, and leaving the lungs during expiration.

    Inside the chest cage are the lungs, two sponge like structures that normally, because of their elasticity, shrink and collapse. They too are lined, on the outside, with pleura. The visceral pleura, which lines the outside of the lungs, contact the also slippery parietal pleura, which lines the inside of the chest cage. A small amount of pleural fluid fills the space between the two pleural linings, providing a lubrication between the lungs and the chest wall. As there is no air within this pleural space, the lining of the lungs adheres, because of slight negative pressure, to the lining inside the chest cage. Thus, when the chest cage moves, the lungs follow. Expand the chest cage, expand the lungs, and air gets sucked down through the nose / mouth, into the trachea, down into the bronchi, into the bronchioles, and finally into the small grape like air sacks, the alveoli, where gas exchange into and from the bloodstream takes place. When the chest cage collapses, the lungs collapse also, with the end result of air being pushed out the bronchioles, out the bronchi, up the trachea, and out the mouth / nose. That's respiration in a nutshell.

    To expand the chest, two things occur, sometimes one more than the other. First, the intercostal muscles between the ribs contract. As they contract, the ribs themselves lift and expand outward. One cannot voluntarily selectively expand individual ribs; you cannot cause the upper ribs to expand more so than the lower ones. They're all connected, and they move as a unit, provided there is no fracture or nerve damage. Second, the diaphragm contracts, and as it contracts, it changes from an upside down bell shape, to a flattened segment. The contraction of the diaphragm can cause some abdominal organs to move downward.

    An important note here. As the chest cage increases in size (via the use of the ribs and diaphragm), the pressure inside the chest becomes subatmospheric (negative); this relative vacuum causes air to be sucked into the lungs. But, it also has another function: the negative pressure in the chest helps suck blood down from the brain, and up from the abomen, via the venous circulation. Taking a big breath causes a larger bolus of blood to be brought to the heart, so that it can be pumped out, with an eventual relative temporary increase in cardiac output. Breathing is important both for breathing's sake, and for cardiac circulation.

    As the diaphragm falls, the abdomen generally relaxes. Adominal contents shift downward, and the belly appears to enlarge. The belly then flattens as the person exhales; the diaphragm moves upward, the abdominal contents have more upward room, and they settle, with the end result being the anterior abdominal wall flattening.

    One more thing. Not all parts of the lungs are created equally. The bottoms of the lungs, the bases, get more blood flow generally because of the effect of gravity; blood tends to flow to lower parts of an organ. And, because the lung tissue itself tends to be heavy, the lower parts of the lungs tend to be kind of crushed a bit; the top of the lungs, the apices, tend to get relatively more airflow. So, in normal physiology, you have a bit of a mismatch; to some degree, more blood and less air go down lower, more air and less blood go higher. We'll see later how this has an effect with this so called "reverse breathing".

    Well, with what you know now, consider what happens when we tense the abdominal wall, and try to breathe in. With the abdominal wall tensed, and the diaphragm contracting, there is less room for the abdominal contents to shift. The result, is an increase in intra-abdominal pressure. Well, usually, not much of a problem; you'll find some weigh lifters using this technique when they lift heavy weights. Tensing the abdominal musculature when you're bench pressing is necessary to maintain the press. But breathing during that abdominal wall tensing, what our above experts refer to as "reverse breathing", can have other physiologic effects.

    As we've mentioned, inhaling while keeping the abdominal wall tensed, can lead to an increase in intra-abominal pressure. The overall effect of that is to shift some blood in the so called storehouse of the inferior vena cava upwards to the heart. But, there is another effect; it decreases a huge amount of venous return from the legs and pelvic area, so, eventually, there is a decrease in blood returning to the heart. Decrease the blood return to the heart, and you decrease cardiac output. Decreasing forward blood flow can lead to dizziness, as was mentioned, quite astutely, by Samuel Abbot in his wonderful little story above. It probably won't be of much significance in most people, as once the pressure is relieved, blood flow will return to normal. Extensie use of these techniques may trigger a fall in cardiac output, with expected physiologic results, such as decreased exercise tolerance.

    Over tensing the abdominal wall, leads to a situation whereby the abdominal contents cannot shift as well. This impairs the downward contraction of the diaphragm, and leads to a decrease in the expansion of the chest cage. If the diaphragm cannot fully or adequately expand downward, the bases of the lungs, which get most of the blood flow, and therefore potentially most of the gas exchange, cannot expand fully and function correctly. Gas exchange, which is the real function of the lungs, can become impaired.

    Now, think about what the grand pooh bah Buddhist priest said. With reversed breathing, as he defines it, "The upper rib cage still doesn’t move, and you should breath slowly and comfortably. As you breath in, contract your abdomen pulling it in lightly..." If you're tensing your abdominal muscles, limiting the downward movement of the diaphragm, and, keeping the chest cage rigid, how much lung expansion do you think you can accomplish? Do you think that this type of breathing exercise is good for performing martial arts? Or any other sort of exercise?

    From what you now know, read this excerpt from Wikipedia. Not exactly my source of intelligent information, but, interesting nonetheless:

    Reverse Breathing is a choking technique associated with yoga and qigong. It consists of expanding the abdomen while breathing out through the nose, and then compressing it while inhaling via the mouth -- the opposite of what an abdomen would do during natural, instinctive breathing. Via this process there can be paid especially close attention to the act of breathing. A pure, inner type of thought focus may thus arise.

    The technique is also widely practised in a number of martial arts notably Chinese systems such as Baguazhang, T'ai Chi Ch'uan, and Kung Fu. The reverse breathing is believed to activate healing and protective Chi as the practitioner is consciously controlling the breath in a way opposite to normal breathing. In martial arts, a practitioner would deliver a technique on an in breath so an attack would be absorbed by an empty chest or lungs. This makes the martial artist more resilient to attacks.
    If you understood anything I said about normal respiration, you'll notice that the above excerpt is nonsense. "A practitioner would deliver a technique on an in breath so an attack would be absorbed by an empty chest or lungs." How does one get an empty chest upon "an in breath", ie, inspiration? At least, we finally get a decent description of what a "reverse breath" is. I'm not so sure that breathing this way leads to pure inner type of thought focus though. Whatever that is.

    Tim Heuertz has an interesting description of reverse breathing. Again, with what you briefly know about respiratory physiology, try to understand what he is saying:

    To begin, stand with your feet shoulders wide, relax your shoulders into their sockets and “swallow” your chest (swallowing your chest is believed to stimulate the thymus gland which aids in the immune system). Tilt the pelvis up and touch your tongue lightly to the roof of your mouth. Tuck the chin in a bit and you’re ready to start. Expel all your air and push not only your stomach out, but also your sides and lower back (like that spare tire we’ve all gotten rid of through KB training is still there).* Inhale slowly through the nose and pull your stomach in while lifting the perineum (that no-man’s land that separates the front from the back – just another way of working the anal lock or the squeezing and lifting of the anal sphincter and sex organs). Exhale through the mouth and push the stomach out. Let the breath lead the stomach in and out and try not to force it with too much muscle. Also on exhalation, relax the perineum/anal lock. The best way is to just forget about the lock and not really push the relaxation of it. It is said that Yamaguchi, the late head of goju ryu, would push too hard on the exhalation during sanchin kata thus creating massive hemorrhoids. Avoid this just by forgetting.

    Check yourself in a mirror at first and makes sure when you inhale that your shoulders are not lifting and the front of your chest isn’t expanding too much. The sides of the chest seem to expand more doing this (which is good. A seasoned martial arts knows when you hit someone as they are inhaling it hurts a heck-of-a lot more. If your attacker can’t see when you inhale they will never be sure when to attack).

    The way its been explained to me is this method of breathing allows for more air in the lungs and greater expulsion of the air that’s in there. Normally, when breathing high in the chest the diaphragm and lungs get hooked up on each other – preventing either from full capacity on inhalation and full drainage on exhalation. Not expelling that air totally causes the lungs to carry around stale air. Doing proper reverse breathing forces the diaphragm to expand in a way that creates a vacuum in the lungs, filling them from the bottom up. Now both diaphragm and lungs are allowed to expand to their full capacity. Exhaling properly expels more air more efficiently, thus saving the lungs from carrying around that stale air.
    Amusing. In my opinion, comical nonsense, with absolutely no foundation in generally accepted anatomical concepts or physiology.



    To answer the original question: Whats the difference between normal breathing and reverse breathing? I don't know. I never heard of reverse breathing before this, it is not a term commonly used in medicine, and its description and use makes no sense to me from an anatomical, physiological, practical, or rational point of view. From reading other "expert" opinions, it's clear that this concept is not generally understood or accepted by all those who profess to be knowledgeable of it.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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  • #2
    I'm of the opinion that if reverse breathing has so many advantages over normal breathing, ie. magic powers and immortality, then through the natural evolutionary process people would already be breathing like that. Whats more beneficial to survival than living forever with super chi powers?
    The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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    • #3
      You actually read all of that?
      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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      • #4
        Some interesting followup. (And, I can't seem to respond to his email address, so I'll put the correspondence here):

        I see,so we shouldn't use reversed breathing without being able to feel the chi. Because you can't concentrate something that u can't feel ,right ?
        One question.

        Can you feel chi? Do you know what it is?

        Arrgh. That was two questions. Sorry

        If chi is the heat you feel when you do chi gong or meditation, yes if = not than no. And if i know what it is ? Well, i know that chi is vital energy,breath and....
        We have some threads on chi in the forum.

        I guess first you have to ascertain that chi exists, define it, believe it, and then, see if your accepted definition of reverse breathing causes it.

        That's a long chain of investigation. Replete with many links that others can easily attack.
        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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        • #5
          Did I read the entire thing? No I skimmed parts of it towards the end. I actually read about the different breathing styles mentioned here years ago in various books. Some of the "special people" at usast used to talk about this kind of crap. If I tried to ask legitimate questions about i got the usual "You dont understand" response.

          I thought you'd be happy someone took the time to read what you wrote here doc.
          The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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          • #6
            i read through quite a bit of it. skipped the quotes... but mostly just because i couldn't believe you were going on like that..

            btw, who's norton?
            ZhongwenMovies.com

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            • #7
              The quotes were the best part. It's what I found most entertaining, and, in a lopsided sort of way, the most educational.

              Norton? Ralph? Oh, you youngsters. They were before your time. The Honeymooners.

              Then again, they were before my time too...
              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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              • #8
                Way back, when I was just out of high school, I attended a Tae Kwon Do school for three months. The first two months were ok. The third month the
                "Master" asked me to come into his offiice. He stated there was "special" training regarding a reverse breathing process that I could learn, but first he wanted to show me tape on "Exorcisms". I was sure he meant to say exercises. When the tape began to play, he was standing there with two of his students who were holding the arms of a fourth person. The "Master" then began his "exorcism". That was my last day. I think back, maybe if I had stayed (and as the "Master" stated after viewing the tape, accepted Jesus Christ as my personal saviour) I could have been exorcised and learned the true secret of reverse breathing. Oh well, I guess I'll just hang with the rest of the pagans for now.

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                • #9
                  Why are you in martial arts doc? You don't know anything about martial arts. You ridicule martial artists. You pass on inaccurate and false information.

                  Why?

                  Doc - "How anyone can lift up their perineum when they inhale is beyond me."

                  That is the problem Doc. It is beyond you. And since you can't do it, no one else can. Right? Did they teach you that in school also? If you can't do something, it is impossible?

                  I guess that means sprinting and running must be impossible, because big as you are, you can't run or sprint can you?
                  --------------------------
                  Doc - "I guess I'll just never understand where these martial arts gods get their information from"

                  You are right. You never will understand. They got their information through practice and insight. You think you can buy the information by paying the bills of high muckety mucks in the kung fu world
                  -------------------------
                  Doc - " To answer the original question: Whats the difference between normal breathing and reverse breathing? I don't know. I never heard of reverse breathing before this, it is not a term commonly used in medicine, and its description and use makes no sense to me from an anatomical, physiological, practical, or rational point of view. From reading other "expert" opinions, it's clear that this concept is not generally understood or accepted by all those who profess to be knowledgeable of it. "


                  You should be banned by law from telling people about kung fu. You plainly say you never heard of reverse breathing, you don't know what it is, but you know for a FACT that it cannot be real.

                  People like you are the reason kung fu is going downhill. People read your bilge, and head over to the MMA schools.

                  I could school someone who was teachable. Someone who would listen and who was patient. Someone who would not cry if they heard something they did not like.

                  I don't think you have those qualities though.
                  -----------------------------------

                  It is possible to lift the perinuem. If you were a thinking person, instead of a clown pointing fingers at people, there is a very easy way to find out about this.

                  Find someone who can lift their perineum, and ask them to let you put your finger on it when they lift it. Then you could feel reality for yourself.

                  Fool.

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                  • #10
                    Happeh's back. We missed you.

                    Well, let's get into some more details about the perineum. The area between the anus and the genitals is the center of the perineum, but not the entire perineum; I kept it simple. Let's take it a step further.

                    If you take an individual, turn him upside down, and rip his skin off down to the bone of the pelvis, you'll see that the actual limits of the perineal area are bounded by the pubis symphysis anteriorly (the front part of the pelvis that you feel above your genitals), the coccyx (tailbone) posteriorly, the ishial tuberosities (the bony part of the pelvis that you sit on) laterally), the ischiopubic ramus anterolaterally, and the sacrotuberous ligaments posterolaterally. These are the bony and fibrous limits of the perineum, per definition.

                    If you bisect the perineum, you get two triangles, the anal triangle posteriorly, and the urogenital triangle anteriorly.

                    The floor of the urogenital triangle is made up of a continuation of Scarpa's fascia called Colle's fascia. Fascia is a tough, fibrous tissue that has no contractile ability. Above that, in the male for example, are various muscles that are attached to the penis. Above that, is another layer of fascia making up the urogenital diaphragm.

                    There are no muscles that "lift" this portion of the perineum.

                    Of note, the Colle's fascia is responsible for the "kick in the balls" trick. Martial artists sometimes demonstrate their manliness by having an associate perform a well placed kick in the genitals. What is generally not known, that in preparation for such a strike, the kickee rotates his pelvis upward and anteriorly, so that the kicker strikes the perineal area directly behind the testicular sack. The Colle's fascia absorbs the impact, and not the testicles.


                    The anal triangle of the perineum contains, from the center out, the anus, the external anal sphincter (a "voluntary" muscle which helps close the anus), the levator ani muscle (which forms a "sling" which supports the prostate in men, and also forms part of the "muscular floor" of the pelvis) and the obturator internus muscle (which layers on the inside of the pelvis part of the hip). These muscles do not "raise" the perineum. The levator ani muscles can go into spasm, causing rectal pain, but they do not lift the fascia that underlies the perineal area.

                    There is another layer of muscles, deeper within the pelvis, called the superficial and deeper transverse perineus. These muscles transverse the floor of the pelvis, and are not situated to be able to lift the fibrous tissue that make up the base of the perineum. They make up the internal floor of the pelvis.

                    During defecation, the muscles of the pelvic floor relax, allowing the rectum and anus to drop about 2 cm, a process which allows the straightening of the anal canal so that fecal material can more easily exit the body. The muscles are not voluntarily used to raise these structures. The sensation of "raising" the perineum is more associated with voluntary contraction of the external anal muscle (which constricts the anus) and some contraction of the gluteus maximus muscles.

                    Find someone who can lift their perineum, and ask them to let you put your finger on it when they lift it. Then you could feel reality for yourself.
                    I have no desire to find someone that will attempt to lift their perineum, nor do I have a desire to put my finger on it while they make the attempt. And, having had my fingers on many a perineum during my professional and non-professional careers, I can assure you that I have felt "reality", especially during the non-professional occasions.

                    Sometimes "reality" was good. I've yet to find a perineum that will lift, though, I have found a few that will wiggle and gyrate.
                    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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                    • #11
                      it never fails to amaze me how people will just talk about the human body and how it works without having any basic knowledge of anatomy. If someone is curious to see how these things work the medical text books are in any library or even online. I still dont understand why people just make up reasons for bodily functions then defend their made up view points when the actual answer is starring them in the face.
                      The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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                      • #12
                        Yamaguchi?

                        Originally posted by doc
                        Also on exhalation, relax the perineum/anal lock. The best way is to just forget about the lock and not really push the relaxation of it. It is said that Yamaguchi, the late head of goju ryu, would push too hard on the exhalation during sanchin kata thus creating massive hemorrhoids. Avoid this just by forgetting.
                        Dear friends!
                        Very often I hear this opinion, but it of 100 % wrongly! During an exhalation it is necessary to do ANUS COMPRESSION, BUT NOT the RELAXATION! If to you time in a life has to fight to death at least, this small trifle can help to win to you! Fight - is severe also blood, and, unfortunately, I know it in my life. Please do not confuse fighting methods a chi kung and therapeutic methods a chi kung.
                        I am assured, that the opinion about haemorrhoids masters Yamaguchi is a myth. If there was at the master a haemoplenty on it there could be other medical reasons.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by doc
                          Happeh's back. We missed you.
                          Why do you say that? Because Happeh was the only person who could read something complicated, would actually understand what was written, and had the intelligence and drive to post a meaningful reply? I never noticed anyone else with that ability here.


                          I cannot and will not discuss reverse breathing using the common anatomical details that you have listed. I will agree, without checking, that all of your medical knowledge is true and accurate, and that the muscles that you list move in the ways that they do.

                          What I would be willing to do is offer you a theoretical model to visualize how the perineum could move. I know that you know what a theoretical model is because you are a medical person. You must have intelligence. You should be able to understand that a theoretical model does not have to be physically true, it only needs to explain observed phenomenon in an understandable way.

                          Human beings originally evolved from a single cell in the ocean. A single cell can be thought of as a water balloon. The main feature of a single cell is the nucleus. The nucleus could be thought of as a meatball or ping pong ball or any other solid spherical object floating inside of the water balloon.

                          Instead of visualizing the human body in the anatomical way, with muscles running from point to point and being capable of certain limited movements, visualize the human body as a skeleton around which the single cell, or water balloon was wrapped. The skeleton was put inside of the spherical water balloon, then the spherical water ballon was shrink fitted down to the shape of the human skeleton.

                          The nucleus of the cell will be treated as the center of the cell. If that balloon representing the nucleus was wrapped around the skeleton, then that means the nucleus must be inside of the body somewhere. I don't really want to talk about where it is. You could treat the nucleus as the heart if you want to, because the heart is big and round like the nucleus of a single cell.

                          The important factor here is that the nucleus is treated as the exact center of the cell. What would happen if the nucleus contracted? I claim that if the nucleus contracts, because it is the center of the cell, the nucleus would pull equally on every point on the surface of the cell.

                          We agreed that we were treating the human body as a skeleton with a cell wrapped around it. If the center of the human body pulls on every point of the skin of the human body, that would mean the center of the body was pulling on the perinuem wouldn't it?

                          It is not necessary to describe or understand what muscles are involved in this, or how they are moving. It is only necessary to know that if the center of the body contracts, it pulls on every point of the surface of the body, which includes the perineum.

                          Your insistence on using the anatomical view of the body, which focuses on individual discrete muscles and what they are capable of, will never provide the answers about kung fu that you want. Only physics will provide a reasonable understanding of many of the phenomenon associated with the practice of kung fu.

                          If you insist on using the anatomical view of the body, your description of how the perineum is lifted will be trying to simultaneously describe the movements and interactions of 10's if not 100's of muscles, tendons, fascia etc. None of us can do that I don't think. No human being can describe hundreds of things simultaneously, and no human being can understand hundreds of things simultaneously.

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                          • #14
                            Instead of visualizing the human body in the anatomical way, with muscles running from point to point and being capable of certain limited movements, visualize the human body as a skeleton around which the single cell, or water balloon was wrapped.
                            LOL... No! Why should we? What possible advantage could be gained from treating the human body as anything oher than a human body? I know, let's "treat it" as a rock! Or a giant space slug!
                            We agreed that we were treating the human body as a skeleton with a cell wrapped around it.
                            No we didn't!
                            If the center of the human body pulls on every point of the skin of the human body, that would mean the center of the body was pulling on the perinuem wouldn't it?
                            Yes it would! And if I had a billion dollars I could have my own island! So what!?

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                            • #15
                              I knew there was a reason I had not been back here in.......a week.

                              Typical high brain powered, thoughtful, polite response from a Russbo member.

                              The reason I started with a balloon or cell, was that I hoped you might be able to understand something very simple. Then we could work up.

                              I guess I was wrong. I will try to come up with something even easier than a simple sphere wrapped around the skeleton. Although I am not certain what could be more simple than a sphere.

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