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  • Women Training with Men (and Teen Boys)

    I'm a young woman who loves training in Shaolin wushu. So often I am one of only a few women in class, or the ONLY female in a class full of men and teenage boys.

    I always try to stay very focused and try not to encourage attention. But please guys, tell me.

    What are you guys really thinking? Do you like training with women? When is it cool, when is it distracting? Partner stretches? Spotting for flips/handsprings? Sparring with weapons (forms)? San Da? Chi Na?

  • #2
    yes, i always prefer to do my partner stretches with the girls. i've just always been that way. :-)

    but seriously, it depends mostly on your specific level of proficency. a girl that has skill can protect herself. since she is strong, conditioned, and confident, she worries less herself, and, in turn, when working with her, as a guy you will think less and less about it. sparring may be another animal altogether, but i still believe it depends on one's skill.

    anyhow, if the women just so happens to be a beginner, lower than you in level, etc., well, i think it's just like anything else. you have to take your time and show the person how to do things correctly, regardless of their gender. you may hit it off with someone, but, all in all, people should be their to train. if your getting "man handled," i'd suggest you find another place where you feel secure.

    by chance...you don't train with yan ming, do you? lol....

    btw, i'd love to know what you think.. we are thinking? then again, i wouldn't know what it's like to be a girl in that situation with, as you say, teen age boys.... so...
    just hope this is of some help to you...
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    • #3
      my methods

      I welcome joint trainings of women and men, but I will cut them on age categories. For example, teenagers and children should be engaged separately.
      I consider, that methods of teaching a chi kung and kung-fu for women - are thought insufficiently over and true. As a rule, to them teach man's methods of trainings. I consider such method incorrect. Women should be more prepared in theoretical and special knowledge. I against the big norms of physical preparation. It I compensate special exercises a chi kung. If very carefully to train the woman, she can learn good fight, but its force - in special methods a chi kung.
      I often look competitions. Very often women are traumatised because of bad theoretical preparation and ignorance of principles of fight.
      My principle of training for the woman as in medicine, not to do much harm!

      Come to me to study to Ukraine

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      • #4
        Tx, your comment about skill level makes a lot of sense. At the beginning I was extremely self aware and I couldn't do a cartwheel without eating carpet- always blushing, embarrassed, yes, the annoying, girl. I persisted and a year and a half later I am improved.

        I am interested to know why a woman would need special qigung training...

        What do I think you are thinking? Tell me if I'm right... I am often naive about male drives. But I know you are very visual. So it has to be a bit distracting to be behind a woman doing front splits, trying to plant for head flips, going backwards into back bridges, trying to keep her shirt down.

        I think guys would react negatively if they thought a girl was TRYING to be distracting, teasing or flirtatious. But when we're serious about training, or at least trying, we get a break. It can't hurt that is is tough to look hot in our uniform.

        Our sifu is the one who creates an atmosphere that is pretty safe, I think, cause he treats the both sexes the same, doesn't touch the females in any way (maybe he'll use his foot to push you into a split) and doesn't allow any talking.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Agan
          I welcome joint trainings of women and men, but I will cut them on age categories. For example, teenagers and children should be engaged separately.
          I consider, that methods of teaching a chi kung and kung-fu for women - are thought insufficiently over and true. As a rule, to them teach man's methods of trainings. I consider such method incorrect. Women should be more prepared in theoretical and special knowledge. I against the big norms of physical preparation. It I compensate special exercises a chi kung. If very carefully to train the woman, she can learn good fight, but its force - in special methods a chi kung.
          I often look competitions. Very often women are traumatised because of bad theoretical preparation and ignorance of principles of fight.
          My principle of training for the woman as in medicine, not to do much harm!

          Come to me to study to Ukraine


          by george that's cute. If I see aaany application or frequency movement pattern you have once, twice max.. you're never going to land that on me thereforth.
          AS for your advice about women not training physical condition... how's save it sound??@). if women are prepping heavy on thaat side of things... and it matters to martial performance.. like sport psychology and physiological movement and considerations for instance.. then just perhaps men might want to have an equal look at that also.... such ego @).
          if you dont train women to high standards of defense.. then I wouldn't train with you. why bother??
          not to introduce harm... is to not teach methods of dealing with it.
          reeeally.. if I wanted that.. I'd go to a gym and take tae bo classes.



          Onesp!ng,...

          How do you feel when a girl is more conditioned or skilled than you? is it easy for you
          to not view them sexually??? Iii myself as a fml, have alooot of incidences of that with male students around me. especially in the west. ..even in world title holder gyms. I heard something recently about men being naturally prone to seeking out the strength compliment in women to their weakneses.. soo.. I was wondering what you think about that??..

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          • #6
            Originally posted by nuxia
            What are you guys really thinking? Do you like training with women?
            Training with women is a distraction. Someone in the class will be distracted by the woman, and that distraction will affect the entire class. There is nothing that annoys me more than to go to serious kung fu with a studious attitude, then hearing people making sexual jokes, or indicating by their stares and motions that they are engaging in sexual thoughts. If a man is staring at a woman's breasts, for me it is like he is shouting at the top of his lungs "LOOK!!!!!!!!! BOOBIES!!!!!!!!!"

            Sexual thoughts will drain the kung fu power. I don't want my kung fu power drained. I go to class to learn and get stronger, not to be drained and weakend by people with uncontrollable sexual thoughts.

            Originally posted by nuxia
            Do you like training with women?cool, when is it distracting?
            Training with women is troublesome. They are weak so you have to hold back, and you are not supposed to touch them. You ever try Chi Sao with a woman? Your hands are inches away from her breasts. Many of the drills are about striking the other person. Naturally since the breasts are right there, you want to hit the breasts. Then if you do, the woman and everyone else complains that you hit her breasts.

            I would hit a man in the exact same spot. It is the woman's fault she has breasts, not mine. If she doesn't want anyone hitting her in the breast, she should not be in kung fu.


            Originally posted by nuxia
            I am interested to know why a woman would need special qigung training...
            The bodys of men and women are different. Obviously as with the breast situation above, but also internally. Chi Kung designed for a the male body can hurt the female body, because the female body is designed differently. Female Chi Kung is designed for the female body, and will hurt the male body if a male performs it.

            I met a Chinese guy once who practically spit in my face when I told him I was learning Wing Chun. Wing Chun is considered to be a woman's art. To that man, I was training like a woman would train, which made me a woman.

            An intriguing question that a kung fu person should give serious thought to is, "If I train in female kung fu, will I become a female?" or for a female "If I train male kung fu, will I become male?"

            Then you want to ask yourself. Would you be comfortable being a man who was a female, or a female who was a man? If you take kung fu seriously, you need to think seriously about what can happen as a result of practicing things you do not fully comprehend.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by mbokohutu
              Training with women is a distraction. Someone in the class will be distracted by the woman, and that distraction will affect the entire class. There is nothing that annoys me more than to go to serious kung fu with a studious attitude, then hearing people making sexual jokes, or indicating by their stares and motions that they are engaging in sexual thoughts. If a man is staring at a woman's breasts, for me it is like he is shouting at the top of his lungs "LOOK!!!!!!!!! BOOBIES!!!!!!!!!"

              Sexual thoughts will drain the kung fu power. I don't want my kung fu power drained. I go to class to learn and get stronger, not to be drained and weakend by people with uncontrollable sexual thoughts.



              Training with women is troublesome. They are weak so you have to hold back, and you are not supposed to touch them. You ever try Chi Sao with a woman? Your hands are inches away from her breasts. Many of the drills are about striking the other person. Naturally since the breasts are right there, you want to hit the breasts. Then if you do, the woman and everyone else complains that you hit her breasts.

              I would hit a man in the exact same spot. It is the woman's fault she has breasts, not mine. If she doesn't want anyone hitting her in the breast, she should not be in kung fu.




              The bodys of men and women are different. Obviously as with the breast situation above, but also internally. Chi Kung designed for a the male body can hurt the female body, because the female body is designed differently. Female Chi Kung is designed for the female body, and will hurt the male body if a male performs it.

              I met a Chinese guy once who practically spit in my face when I told him I was learning Wing Chun. Wing Chun is considered to be a woman's art. To that man, I was training like a woman would train, which made me a woman.

              An intriguing question that a kung fu person should give serious thought to is, "If I train in female kung fu, will I become a female?" or for a female "If I train male kung fu, will I become male?"

              Then you want to ask yourself. Would you be comfortable being a man who was a female, or a female who was a man? If you take kung fu seriously, you need to think seriously about what can happen as a result of practicing things you do not fully comprehend.
              sexual thoughts will drain kung fu power huh? What about fear and oppression of natural processes?
              Exactly the muslim interperetation that led to to fml circumcision !
              Thaaat part, is on men. It is youu who are scared of Us,.. and your thoughts and nature surrounding us, so when you take on attitudes and action based on the fact that you dont know how to conduct yourself properly and lack trust in the rightness of your primal instincts, you 're kungfu suffers.
              The vinaya and lotus sutra clearly outline the types of men and operating conditions that cannot be considered approached. Therefore, it is clearly alll in your owwn head.

              What do you think the pooint of exposure to women is all about ??? if you see breasts and not strike points during a drill where that women is your opponent, then that too is your own weakness, vulnerabilty and misconception. if you cant handle confronting and learning the lesson to defend yourself on all manner of variables, then you never did learn how to overcome that.

              qigong is qigong. if you do it right, then you must need to be familiar with practices and natural movement of both genders and gender heart mind and body processes. there are many practices in maaany traditions and even philanthropical systems that explain and teach methods for this very thing.
              If you're confronting the "am I a man or a woman" question.. then that's probably something life deals out as a platform to grow through.

              What can happen when you practice something that you do not fully comprehend.. is that you get an opportunity to grow into some knowledge, wisdom and lesson about that.

              If youu take kungfu seriously, you will practice with ethic despite your fears.

              ppl will say alll sorts of shit that could threaten to oppress your progession. the trick is imo, doing it anyway and finding out yoursellf what's at the other end of it. Are you reeeally trying to scare ppl with threats they will stagnate eternal hermaphrodite??

              of course... buddhanature miiight have seen that one coming.

              peace. @).

              Blooming tianshi lotus.

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              • #8
                What can happen when you practice something that you do not fully comprehend.. is that you get an opportunity to grow into some knowledge, wisdom and lesson about that.

                If youu take kungfu seriously, you will practice with ethic despite your fears.

                ppl will say alll sorts of shit that could threaten to oppress your progession. the trick is imo, doing it anyway and finding out yoursellf what's at the other end of it.




                The wisest and most helpful post I've ever read on this forum, thank you. Lotus, have you studied high level internal arts, and if so, what kinds of experiences have you had with masters (male and female)?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by nuxia

                  The wisest and most helpful post I've ever read on this forum, thank you. Lotus, have you studied high level internal arts, and if so, what kinds of experiences have you had with masters (male and female)?
                  Oh boy. This is going to have repercussions for us all, LOL...
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                  • #10
                    LOL, I came to this thread late, wish I hadn't.

                    I would hit a man in the exact same spot. It is the woman's fault she has breasts, not mine. If she doesn't want anyone hitting her in the breast, she should not be in kung fu.
                    ...Nobody was even talking about that, man. Is there a story behind this?

                    An intriguing question that a kung fu person should give serious thought to is, "If I train in female kung fu, will I become a female?" or for a female "If I train male kung fu, will I become male?"
                    And that "serious thought" should take about a tenth of a second.



                    Anyway, in my opinion, women are never a distraction, they're motivation.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by nuxia




                      The wisest and most helpful post I've ever read on this forum, thank you. Lotus, have you studied high level internal arts, and if so, what kinds of experiences have you had with masters (male and female)?



                      At most schools or gyms that I have studied or trained at since i was very small, there is always an undertone or other of some sort of gender collision and appropriatness of the role of whomever is in seniority according to the level that 's a student is being led to. I think that 's why we either subconciously or forefrontally start to query ourselves on the appropriateness of our interactions and on terms of what consitutes an alpha and of each gender and also make assessments based on those things of what an ideal partner might or might not be for us.

                      It's no secret in the world of medical science that Natural testosterone and estrogen synthesis and release is based on our perceptions of those things relative to our observations of others and ourselves and the interactive dynamic.

                      Of course there have been times when I'm confronted with both males and females who are more focussed on me as a sexual prospect than for anything relative to increasing our position , as is dare I say always my focus when training.
                      I have left gyms and schools because of issues surrounding that, and more than once.

                      On the other hand though, remembering that to be mutually kosher, it has to be mutually understood, i have also trained with maaany a hottie and as far as I'm concerned, purely because of the fact that as we start pulling out our adrenal responseses and hormonal mechanisms and refocus offff the back of that, as is described in satori detatchment practice, that alone has propelled us both to higher levels of ..qi and consequent output and peaceful movement within our environment.

                      Just recently, less than a monthy perhaps, I has the pleasure of when ShiDiYang came to town for a cpl of weeks, nOt meeting with him.
                      I did actually have a tentative date for a meal and chat in lieu of the seminar appearance I diidn't want to do for exactly along the lines of the above and that I 'm probably generally more private when it comes to my training mind with and under certain ppl, butt, because his chaperone was concerened that I was female and was apparently looking at the appropriateness of that, I decided that it would probably be more productive for me not to meet with him at this time.
                      Just like with alot of the other monks I would love to chat or study kungfu with, to be most honest, I'm really not sure of how to put together a kosher intimate space between us where I would have saught that out. Sooo, that said , until circumstances are different enough for that to make a difference should it ever be going to, I'm quite happy to just trust myself and what i know about how to put together my own condition and regime and continue to do what else i have to do elsewhere.

                      My position on this probably isn't going to be so directly applicable for most ppl, but I am also in the process of upholding tenets myself, and including those of brahminism, so for me my interactive dynamic and circumstances that should happen on, is slightly
                      different to that which would be for alot of others.
                      Soo, to answer your question, I am going to say yes, I have a reasonable familiarity with high level internal practices.

                      I do think up to a point certain training practices with the other sex definately has a place in a person's development. If we choose to study in places where both sexes are welcome and present, then apparently we are still seeking more on the lesson of how exactly that works. If men cant control their focus in my presence, particularly when it comes to training or study or work or whatever it is, then I have no reason to need to be focussing on that with them, becaause the point is that there is other stuff to do and whatever brought us there to interact in the first place is only for each of us to facilitate our goals prior. If they get distracted,... that's their own business, but I still have work to do and have no intention of not doing exactly that.

                      Hope that clarifies my position.

                      Blooming tianshi lotus.

                      p.s. when that guy said that wc was fml kungfu, is he talking do you think about being owned a woman's survival mind and that taking refuge in that is a testosterone blow????
                      I dont think it's as far fetched as it might initially sound. I feel exactly the same studying and working for and under certain ppl or groups myself. AS long as I can give it all to being owned by buddhanature though, and that we're all operating toward the same goal and exchanges are mutual... then thaat's when I'm okay with it.
                      I think it's a matter of understanding where your refuges are and 've been and submitting that to buddhanature to own us alll with. I think thaat is where ppl get stuck and this whole gay / hermaphrodite / gender trading / war planet garbage is maintained and perpetuated. Doc was nOt wrong when he said that this new butt hole fettish and was up that of whom, was the new generation. ppl are not not noticing the slave parameters of these things.

                      owned by sex, owned by money, owned by food and survival needs, owned by our primal natures to reproduce, and owned by the fact of appropriate means to put it out there.. liike the shows shaolin has been doing and by the fact of the need to spread the word.

                      ppl are soo desperate that it's no surprise that they have trouble understanding the difference between appropriate and otherwise. .. and in fact... I'm prettty darned sure that that is the entire point.

                      Thanks for the media .).

                      amitabha.

                      Blooming tianshi lotus.

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                      • #12
                        training is not exclusive to males. in fact, some girls will actually kick you in the balls if you hit them in the "boobie" hard enough.. (great choice of words, btw)

                        everyone has the right to step onto the path. it's true, though, the gym really isn't the place for superficial nonsense. sex talk is inappropriate, in my opinion. but i also believe there's no real reason to be embarrassed if you fall, either. get up, try again. it's a competition with yourself and others if you make it that way or allow it to be so. after all, gongfu at it's purest isn't something you can ever really win, for we are all living, changing, beings...with different traits and abilities.

                        at least most of us.

                        bl, honestly i haven't practiced with a women who was well trained in years. in qingdao i had a female taiji teacher who happens to be very famous in that area. one of her top students was also a women. that was probably the last time i ever trained alongside a girl, two actually, who i felt had the ability to thoroughly defend themselves and possessed strong gongli. of course i never walked over and bear hugged them just to see if they could break my grip, lol...

                        i respect people who believe they can do better and work hard to make it happen, period. cultivators are educators and vise versa. if your teacher is female, well, you learn. there are some very talented gongfu woman out there..... mature gongfu woman. if i had the chance to train with them, i would.

                        and, well, i also think it's pretty sad to discourage a young girl from training.
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                        • #13
                          well i dont know if anyone is still reading this post, but the truth is that the ideal training partner is on that can help you to gain the skills you aim for.

                          male or female is of little consequence if they're dedicated to the work that must be done.

                          training for martial skill is a study and a practice in pain. networking has a small place in training. small. if the instructor is any good, he/she will place you with the people best suited to assist you, on your quest. you may not like them sometimes, but my guess is, even if you dont like them, you like them more than getting hit in the face.

                          peace


                          onefocus

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                          • #14
                            I gotta disagree.

                            There's another issue when it comes to men and women training together, and that is the issue of attraction. The interaction between men and women can be very complex, but if there is any degree of attraction in either direction, that can complicate the interaction between the two, regardless of whether it's eating lunch, or training in gong fu.

                            I don't think you can get away from it.
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                            • #15
                              and are we sure that the reason that dymanic exists in nature isn't help us to decipher what is apprioriate placement of attraction and what's good for us and not in that what certains unions or focuses do to us in way of exposing and resolving vulnerabilties maybe???


                              Some men just never learn. @). please do a. hold back because you think you're sexually attracted and condiition yourself to go easy with the truth until it blows up in a climax of wtf or b. just avoid us altogether and never know or work out what it's like to be on mutually unnnvulnerable terms ever. works for me. .

                              It helps to be able act Onesself as though one isn't to the detriment of the 'safety' of the other person though... and particularly after recognising a potential tooo be finding onsself attracted or attractive to someone of the opposite sex period.
                              If you contionue to see someone under inappropriate sexual dynamic.. then you deserve anything that happens.

                              the vinaya doesn't talk about right terms to associate on for nothing and norrr do the muslims and so on have rules about the same stuff for no good reason. not as far as my own take it on anyway. *shrug*.

                              Onesp1ng,.. do you think Youu might avoid someone you thought you were attracted to or might be attractive to if you thought that it was an unhealthy dynamic??
                              ..

                              nm.

                              Of course you would. ... *shrug*.

                              What if you attttempt a spanking and miss because the vulnerabilty tooo said spanking had already been identified and resolved earlier on by the alledged first instance spankee prior your egotistical attempt at attacking that apparently non existant vulnerabilty?? about being careful who you hit on and why.. see thaat is good kungfu . what happens when someone tries to throw a cheap shot into a gap that never existed??
                              nm. *blush*. you gett how you sexual focus can make you vulnerable??
                              Great fun , no. .

                              Blooming tianshi lotus.

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