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Cyclone Nargis in Burma kills 15 000 people

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  • Cyclone Nargis in Burma kills 15 000 people

    I've just been hearing about, in an interesting turn of events, the extent of the damage of the cyclone that swept over Burma recently, and apparently there are 15 thousand people dead ( new figures here on the news as of half hour ago http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sto...22-663,00.html) and it's right up there damage wise with the tsunami that hit a few yrs back.

    I also heard that they might not be going to accept to international aid, despite that the forgein minister is saying they are all for help, so, I'm just wondering if being out that way, you've heard anything about that situation.

    Thanks .

    Blooming tianshi lotus.

  • #2
    Not a thing. Other than what we see in the news.

    Ridiculous that the US govt offered 250 million. As if the people would actually get that...
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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    • #3
      Apparently, according to news over the last hour or so, Burma is accepting virtually no aid from abroad at all!

      There was a press conference announcing to the world that the reason is that Burma just doesn't trust america, and apparently their own military are barely doing much for them there neither, and there are more monks attending than military.

      I also hear that the death toll could be in excess of a quarter mILLION ppl there, and bodies are littered in fields and water supply areas and so on.

      Some offical body or other, was also in the press conference begging Burma for visas for 4 humanitarian aid workers to travel there to help, as others are being tuned way at arrival in Rangoon, and apparently they aren't letting in any international media over there neither.


      Personally, under the circumstances, I think it's fascinating to watch it unfold.

      Here is a link to a recent update



      Blooming tianshi lotus.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by blooming tianshi lotus View Post
        Apparently, according to news over the last hour or so, Burma is accepting virtually no aid from abroad at all!

        There was a press conference announcing to the world that the reason is that Burma just doesn't trust america, and apparently their own military are barely doing much for them there neither, and there are more monks attending than military.

        Blooming tianshi lotus.
        Are you surprised?

        I'm not. That's life. It's viewed differently here in Asia than it is in America and the west. Some countries, Burma for example, far more extreme than the others. People die. The rest move on.
        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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        • #5
          yeh. I kind of felt the same about the general sentiment during the tsunami aftermath.

          I'm not surprised, but just seeing what the burmese ppl will do next under that kind of pressure and the extent others will go to make them believe they muust receive this help and the place of heart it comes from, thaat is what I find interesting.
          talking of karmic debts, selling one's soul and amitabah, Doc...

          Blooming tianshi lotus.

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          • #6
            Latest news.

            unauthoriesd relief parcel drops scheduled to go.

            receiving very small amounts from china and india.

            craziness.

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            • #7
              About assisting those who need it, i came across the figure that ten millions children die every year in the world. Among these many could be saved with cheap treatments such as diarrhea or pneumonia.

              Can someone explain me why the nations and companies that have money do not assist them?

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              • #8
                While I understand why you ask your question, it seems that you pretend that you do not know why.

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                • #9
                  A country is responsible for the safety and wellbeing of its citizens. A business is responsible for the investments of its shareholders.

                  The U.S. is still rich as hell compared to a lot of the world, but if you look at the news, we sort of have problems of our own at the moment. Some degree of charity is a good thing (and we're trying to provide it, in spite of the Myanmar government's doing their best to stop us), but it's not our responsibility to solve the world's problems. Too often, we try to anyway, and the results can be disastrous for everyone involved.

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                  • #10
                    The Chinese take a different approach, which is something we Americans should consider.
                    They sit back and do nothing.

                    I was always asked, by various politician and other types that I had met during my travels, why America always has to get involved in other people's business. I never had a good answer for that. China deals with the world in a very introspective way; America is always reaching out.

                    China is becoming, if it isn't already, the world's superpower. America continues its tumble. They might be right in how they deal with the world's problems. They deal with their own, and sometimes, harshly, while we muck around in places we have no business mucking around it.
                    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

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                    • #11
                      No answer about the question when to help. It is a difficult question. Though Gandhi said all men are brothers, so shouldnt we help our brother.

                      I dont believe in the do nothing or non interventionist ideas. But the problem is to have skillful means. I might say some stupid but for instance the idea to bring democracy to Afghanistan might sound right but the question is how to achieve this.

                      Gandhi also said that it is wiser and easier to help one's neighbour than to help faraway people, one reason being is that your difference might bring trouble.

                      A part of western money comes from very dirty ways such as colonialism and imperialism. How many dictatures France has supported in Africa? I think it is fair to support such countries.
                      As for capitalist companies what need do this rich people have for luxury. I really cannot understand you live in luxury while your brother cannot go to school or have no medicine.
                      To make a difference between me and the other is contrary to the view of emptiness.

                      Gandhi never needed the luxury.

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                      • #12
                        Liu, I'm not sure what the point is you are trying to make. You are writing a lot but saying very little. What is the point you are trying to make?

                        Also, may I ask what your location is on the globe?

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                        • #13
                          i think it's guangzhou, china.

                          and yes, i would agree, liutangsanzang. it would be better to make your points a bit clearer.
                          ZhongwenMovies.com

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                          • #14
                            I hear on the news this morning that overnight, two trucks carrying supplies have been permitted entry through Thailand.

                            It's so little, and while I also hear that U.N. estimates a budgetary need of 250 million dollars to rebuild burma for themselves, in reply to Liutangsangzang's comment, the thing with receiving help, and the apparent situation in burma atm, is that that "help" is appearing in no uncertain terms to be considered as an occupying force. Particularly when as you say, the means for acquiring the resources to help with are as you say "dirty", or in any way under question, that can be an offensive prospect. I think that iis the issue that ppls from those regions have against the west and western ppls period. The development of survival skills and independance out of neccessity to find it, is also a major character building influence.


                            I know that under most circumstances, I probably feel very similar to Burma about that myself, and that I proteged under my self made billionaire uncle for periods growing up, and heard over and over again how it was possible to do it for oneself, when offered his teatie over my own abilties, or any manner of the same from elsewhere, I was equally and expoentially unenthusiastic about accepting, and so most of the time I didn't. I think it was only from being exposed to such generousity of offer of that, that I formed some very definate ideas about terms for help, and came to understand that the other side of that coin does exist, and why it too is probably a very essential element to the overall picture.

                            The entire western system is built on co-dependance, likely derived most tangilbely and superficially from christianity and the dominance of the Roman Empire, and if I'm not mistaken certain muslim factions are very similar and consequentially open about bureaucratic and social heirarchy and so forth, hence the situation with that, but, like with china who drives home to it's pp that sometimes help will nOt come and therefore one mUst do things for oneself or go without and die out, I also think that developing a means to survive independantly come what may interim, is the other half of that dynamic of being a recipient of aid at important survval cross roads. not everyone wants help.
                            I know more than once, I held onto and increased my own esteem by doing it for myself in times of crisis in lieu of help and any catch 22 benevolence that's come with that. It's a character trademark of mine even, and I dont hate that about myself. being an otherwise desperate and vulnerable single mother needing us both to survive probably didn't not have alot to with it also.
                            If china is becoming or has already become a world super power based on that type of philosophy, then I dont think I'd like to feel it needs to be perceived as deterimental. it iis how personal power develops and while I 'm not really sure about forcing it on someone to be required to choose that where there are options, I certainly appreciate the laws and customs that protect mE from having to pressured to submit to help.

                            Here is another perspective from Antonio Graceffo.


                            [quote email article]

                            Disaster and Repression in Burma
                            Will the World Please Step in!
                            By Antonio Graceffo

                            “20,000 dead, over 40,000 missing and 1 million displaced.”
                            FBR Relief Team Leader


                            During forty years of totalitarian rule, the SPDC, the junta which rules
                            Burma, has demonstrated time and again that they view the civilian
                            population as adversaries. Burma maintains one of the largest standing
                            armies in the world, although they have no external enemies. Obviously,
                            the purpose of the army is to maintain the junta’s power, to protect the
                            government from the people. In light of the horrendous day-to-day
                            situation in Burma, how can the world expect the junta to react with
                            compassion and save its people after an horrific natural disaster?

                            To get an idea of how the situation is on the ground, I conducted
                            interviews (mostly by email) with members of various aid organizations and
                            pro-democracy groups concerned with Burma.

                            The Free Burma Rangers (FBR) is one of the leading and most well-respected
                            organizations working on the Thai border. An FBR Relief Team Leader, had
                            this to say.

                            “We hope that the SPDC allows the international community to come in and
                            give assistance to those in critical need at this time.”

                            Kind souls from around the world have written me and asked if I could get
                            them inside of Burma. Sadly, I cannot. I work in the tribal areas, which
                            we can access through the jungle. But Yangon, where much of the
                            destruction took place, is only accessible by airplane, and you need a
                            visa, issued by the Burmese government to enter. Many aid workers are
                            frustrated. They sit with their medicines and food packages, waiting for
                            visas to enter. So far, the junta has been slow about granting entry to
                            aid workers.

                            “It's already slowed it down -- they are obsessed with the referendum.
                            Making UN personnel wait for visas like tourists because they suspect
                            journalists coming in to cover the stupid referendum.” Said another relief
                            team member.

                            The immediate need is for foreign aid to get into the country, to feed,
                            cloth, house, and care for those who need help. A long term concern,
                            however, is that aid can be used as a tool, by the junta to strengthen
                            their own position.

                            “Foreign aid should only go in with proper monitoring and accountability
                            for its use.” Said an aid worker.

                            All of the workers, from the various organizations, asked me to keep their
                            identity secret because they are in the process of applying for visas. The
                            Burmese government often does checks of foreign press and blacklists
                            people with close ties to the media.

                            Some Muslim magazines are very concerned that the people of the Arakan,
                            who largely follow the religion of Islam, will be completely marginalized
                            and no help will reach them at all.

                            “The Rohingyas in Arakan are in an especially difficult situation and will
                            need a focused effort to provide the assistance that they need.”

                            Some international aid organizations, who are willing to accept the
                            Burmese government’s tight restrictions, maintain permanent offices in the
                            capital. The tribal people, however, are largely served by small aid
                            organizations, often faith based, who are ill-funded, but risk life and
                            limb to save as many lives as possible. The Muslim people of the Arakan
                            are in an extremely unfortunate geographical location. They are only
                            accessible from Bangladesh and India, where there are very few foreign aid
                            teams.

                            As an open request for help, I would be willing to serve as Emergency
                            Medical Technician on any aid mission who wishes to try and help the
                            people living in Arakan state or those who have fled over the border. The
                            photos that I have seen of the refuge camps in Bangladesh are heart
                            breaking with people dying of starvation and disease daily. If any Muslim
                            organization, or anyone with a heart and a checkbook, is willing to help
                            support aid to these people, I would be proud to help. Contact me
                            Antonio@speakingadventure.com

                            Even the UN is waiting in line to help, but the junta has failed to
                            answer. “The UN has requested access to provide relief but we are not sure
                            of the status of those relief efforts.”

                            Many people know of my work with the Shan State Army, in Shanland.
                            Unfortunately, although the cyclone missed the major tribal areas, the
                            ethnics are still suffering at the hands of the SPDC.

                            “In the mountains where the IDPs are under attack by the Burma Army,
                            attacks by the Burma Army continue. There the storm is, however, less
                            severe and there have been no reports from our teams of large scale damage
                            in eastern Burma. However, the ethnic Karen in particular in the Delta
                            region were badly affected by this storm as they make up a large
                            percentage of the population in the area worst hit by the cyclone.”

                            “There is an immediate need for drinking water, sanitation, food, shelter,
                            blankets, cooking implements, and medical care. We are trying to develop a
                            network to assess the needs, purchase or order supplies, package them,
                            transport and distribute them in the most caring and efficient manner and
                            account for and report on the assistance.”

                            “Right now the greatest problem is getting access from the SPDC to go help
                            the people now. We hope that the international community will help those
                            in need immediately.”

                            Caring folks around the world have asked how and where they can send aid
                            money.

                            They can send it to World Aid (checks payable to World Aid)
                            2442 NW Market Street, PMB# 434
                            Seattle, WA 98107
                            USA
                            Designate: Cyclone relief
                            Our tax id is 94-3116991

                            Contact World Aid directly at: worldaidinc@gmail.com

                            Now needs to be a moment of action. We, the world community need to send
                            aid, volunteers, and workers. We need to pressure the junta to allow
                            life-saving medicines and technologies to enter. Moving forward, however,
                            let this disaster be the catalyst, the first step toward permanent and
                            meaningful international intervention in Burma. The Burmese people, the
                            Burmans, the Shan, the Karen, Karenni, rohingas, Pa-O, Palong, Lahu, Lisu,
                            Akha, and all the various ethnic groups have the right to live in freedom
                            and peace. They have the right to self-determination. They have chosen
                            Aung San Suu Kyi, so let us help her take her rightful place as the leader
                            of a new Free Burma.

                            Please say a prayer for the people of Burma.

                            Antonio Graceffo is a qualified Emergency Medical Technician, as well as
                            an adventure and martial arts author living in Asia. He is the Host of the
                            web TV show, “Martial Arts Odyssey,” Currently he is working inside of
                            Shan State, documenting human rights abuses, doing a film and print
                            project to raise awareness of the Shan people. To see all of his videos
                            about martial arts, Burma and other countries:

                            Antonio is the author of four books available on amazon.com Contact him
                            Antonio@speakingadventure.com
                            see his website http://speakingadventure.com/burma.htm
                            Antonio is self-funded and seeking sponsors. If you wish to contribute to
                            the “In Shanland” film project, you can donate through paypal, through the
                            Burma page of my website.


                            [end quote]

                            Has anyone else here ever had an experience where they did or would have felt "Dog" to receive help??Blooming tianshi lotus
                            Last edited by blooming tianshi lotus; 05-10-2008, 11:05 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Sorry if i am not clear. It is because i am not clear.

                              I believe that we need a lot of compassion to help the suffering of every living beings. That s the symbol of 1000 armed Guan Yin.

                              But the problem is how to bring this compassio. For this we need skillful means (kusala upaya) but it might be difficult because of cultural differences. That is why Gandhi said it is easier to help our neighbors than far away people.

                              Colonialism was also seen as compassionate. Now the human rights movement also claim for compassion but it often does not understand the violence that one's country also create.

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