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  • Understanding capitalism

    Here is an article about the death of millions of children in lack of medical assistance.

    I dont understand how capitalist countries and companies can continue to earn billions of dollars while children die because they cannot pay a few dollars of medicine? As some islamists say isnt the rich countries the biggest terrorists in the world? As a member of such country i feel like i must be very careful about my political karma for it seems the history of western political violence is not ended.

    10M children worldwide die from lack of health care By TERESA CEROJANO, Associated Press Writer Tue May 6, 7:41 AM ET


    MANILA, Philippines - More than 200 million children worldwide under age 5 do not get basic health care, leading to nearly 10 million deaths annually from treatable ailments like diarrhea and pneumonia, a U.S.-based charity said Wednesday.
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    Nearly all of the deaths occur in the developing world, with poor children facing twice the risk of dying compared to richer children, according to Save the Children's global report.
    Sweden, Norway and Iceland top the ranking in terms of well-being for mothers and children in 146 countries surveyed, while Nigeria ranks last.
    Eight out of 10 bottom-ranked countries are in sub-Saharan Africa, where four out of five mothers are likely to lose a child in their lifetime, Save the Children said.
    The top three among the 55 developing countries ranked in the survey are the Philippines, Peru and South Africa — all surveyed for the first time. Indonesia and Turkmenistan tied for fourth.
    Laos, Yemen, Chad, Somalia and Ethiopia were found doing the worst among developing countries, the report said.
    Through a number of health initiatives, including access to oral rehydration to treat diarrhea, the Philippines has nearly cut its child death rate in half since 1990, said David Oot, Save the Children's associate vice president.
    Today, more than 75 percent of Filipino children with diarrhea receive rehydration therapy, compared with 15 percent of Ethiopian children, he said.
    An alarming number of countries are failing to provide the most basic health services that would save lives, with 30 percent of children in developing countries not getting basic health intervention such as prenatal care, skilled assistance during birth, immunizations and treatment for diarrhea and pneumonia.
    Wide disparities in health care for the poorest and best-off children are seen even in the highest-ranked countries, the report said.
    In the Philippines and Peru, for example, the poorest children are 3.2 times more likely to go without essential health care than their best-off counterparts.
    The poorest Peruvian children are 7.4 times more likely to die than their richest counterparts, while the chances are 3.2 times higher for poor Filipino children.
    In Latin America, Brazil, Bolivia and Peru have some of the world's widest survival gaps between rich and poor children. In Asia, large disparities also exist in India and Indonesia.
    Use of existing, low-cost tools and knowledge could save more than 6 million of the 9.7 million children who die yearly from easily preventable or curable causes, the report said.
    They include antibiotics that cost less than $0.30 to treat pneumonia, the top killer of children under 5, and oral rehydration therapy — a simple solution of salt, sugar and potassium — for diarrhea, the second top killer.

  • #2
    You're talking about a country full of Christians, who don't believe in birth control, and have kids irresponsibly, to the point where they can't take care of them.

    Twenty years ago, the Philippines had sixty million people. Now, they're up to ninety. At this rate, in another ten or twenty years, they'll be well over a hundred million.

    My girlfriend's mom has had nine children. She comes from a family of ten. My girlfriend has about four hundred cousins. Most of this clan lives by the sea near Cebu; education is limited, most of the money that supports the five hundred or so "family" members comes from fishing. They can't afford to clothe themselves, yet, god forbid anyone use any sort of birth control. they just keep having kids.

    The Muslims tend to do the same thing.

    I personally have not have any children. I did not think I had the time or the resources to raise a child over my career, so I never bothered. Imagine, me, a physician, trying to be responsible by thinking I couldn't properly raise a child. Then I look at my girlfriend's mother, who at 36 is still trying to have more kids.

    The Philippines are a mess. Period. It is one of the few countries in the world that can't feed itself; they have to import food to fee their burgeoning millions. They have little infrastructure to create wealth; they get money into their country by sending their people out to other countries, as nurses, housemaids, singers, etc, to make money and send it back home.

    I'm sorry, Ive done medical missions in the Philippines, (and I see the Muslim issue here in Thailand), and it's hard to feel sorry for these people when they can't act responsibly. Consider it a fault of their religion. Isn't that always one of the biggest problems in life. Religious beliefs overtaking rational thought.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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    • #3
      Religious beliefs overtaking rational thought.
      well, said doc. it's kind of becoming a trend...lol....
      ZhongwenMovies.com

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      • #4
        From MSNBC, actually, just now. They must have been stealing my thoughts:

        Fuller house: Arkansas mom pregnant with 18th child
        Michelle Duggar gives her kids a Mother’s Day surprise: ‘We’re expecting!’



        The Duggar kids planned a big Mother's Day surprise for their mom this year. But the surprise was on them when Michelle Duggar announced on the TODAY Show that they were soon to welcome an 18th sibling.

        “We’re expecting!” the happy mother told TODAY co-host Meredith Vieira and the entire Arkansas clan. “Number 18!

        “They didn’t know. My girls watch the calendar like a hawk. We just found out on Monday night.”

        “On Monday night she brought one of the [pregnancy] testers in,” Michelle's husband Jim Bob added. “I wanted to bring it with me, but she wouldn’t let me.”

        And baby, due around New Year’s Day, would make 20.

        Joshua, the Duggars’ eldest son, said the news, two days before Mother's Day was “a shock” — if only to a point.

        “I wasn’t expecting that,” the 20-year-old said. “But it’s been nine months [since the birth of the last baby], so yeah.”

        To date, the Duggars’ 17 natural children range in age from 20 years to 9 months. Included in the mix are 10 boys and seven girls — Joshua, twins Jana and John-David, Jill, Jessa, Jinger, Joseph, Josiah, Joy-Anna, twins Jedidiah and Jeremiah, Jason, James, Justin, Jackson, Johannah and baby Jennifer, who arrived last Aug. 2.

        With two sets of twins, Michelle has gone through 15 pregnancies that ended in 13 natural deliveries and two Caesarean sections.

        Both Michelle and Jim Bob — a former state legislator who served in the Arkansas House of Representatives — are real estate agents. They claim their family is debt-free, with the entire bunch helping to build their 7,000-square-foot home in Tontitown. And they are enriched by a devout faith in their religion.

        The Duggars are followers of the evangelical Christian movement called Quiverful, which teaches that children are God’s blessing and that husbands and wives should happily welcome every child they are given. In fact, the Duggars' Web site, duggarfamily.com, quotes “Children are a heritage of the Lord” from verse 3 of the 123rd Psalm.

        “We just let the Lord decide,” Jim Bob told Vieira.
        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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        • #5
          I just showed my little Philippino girlfriend the picture of this woman with her eighteen kids.

          She said to me, "We can do that".

          Good lord.
          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

          (more comments in my User Profile)
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          • #6
            Like Churchill said, "Capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the others."

            Yes, there are people driving around fancy cars while other people can't afford to eat or pay for medical care. But this is the way it's always been, throughout human history, except for when we used to be hunter-gatherers. It's not anyone's fault, it's just reality.

            In my opinion, there's no viable alternative and trying to find one has resulted in a lot of deaths that could have been avoided by simply accepting reality and trying to compete.

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            • #7
              Of course with huge population densities of poor living in shanty towns on the water it only takes one natural disaster to kill hundreds of thousands of them. Just look at the Tsunami of 04 and the recent typhoon in Burma. I expect to see many more natural disasters in the future with death tolls about 100k. The main reason being you have dense poor and uneducated populations crammed into unsafe regions in economic systems that cant support them, let alone provide medical needs and assistance after a major natural disaster.
              The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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              • #8
                I agree that that is alot of the issue. Both here and in asia and throughout alot of the world. I also think that it's probably an essential karmic dynamic.

                If china hadn't employed the one child policy, for whatever reason they did that, their situation could be verry different both macrocosmically as a nation, and microcosmically for each nuclear group.

                Australia's news just days ago announced that the education board had just received approval for a new 'financial sense( ?)' program to be introduced from kindergarten and incorporated into primary school syllabus, as opposed to most children previously needing to wait until high school. I was sooo stoked to hear that! I dont know what the internatoinal impact of that will be, but I definately think it's a great step forward.

                I tend to believe that having lots of children is rather christian of a thing to do. WE are mostly set up by the Roman Empire, and that does seem to suit the agenda. What do you say about that but to answer with lifeskills and survival education and demonstrate the difference? if it iis a christian belief.. I dont really know about saying they cant practice it...no matter where it leads. I do like knowing it's out there though .

                Blooming tianshi lotus.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Iron Cross View Post
                  I expect to see many more natural disasters in the future with death tolls about 100k. The main reason being you have dense poor and uneducated populations crammed into unsafe regions in economic systems that cant support them, let alone provide medical needs and assistance after a major natural disaster.
                  It's the earth's way of "cleaning house". Viral epidemics, weather, natural disaster. It happens sometimes because we are here, in the numbers that we are.

                  Unfortunately, it's necessary.
                  Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                  "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                  (more comments in my User Profile)
                  russbo.com


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by doc View Post
                    It's the earth's way of "cleaning house". Viral epidemics, weather, natural disaster. It happens sometimes because we are here, in the numbers that we are.

                    Unfortunately, it's necessary.
                    Yes, and I hate when the neo-hippies of our time claim climate change like the planet has been in the same state for all of eternity.

                    That's about as retarded as the idea that the world is only 6,000 years old....sheesh!
                    "For some reason I'm in a good mood today. I haven't left the house yet, though. "

                    "fa hui, you make buddhism sexy." -Zachsan

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                    • #11
                      too bad the 2 percent of the humans who have all of the power are stuck with their fingers up their asses trying to figure out if blue tastes better then green.

                      if we dont end up killing each other, then the planet will. it'll be a cold day in hell when humans find a way to work together to colonize space. were screwed...
                      "Life is a run. In attack we run, in defense we run. When you can no longer run, time to die" - Shichiroji "Seven samurai"

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                      • #12
                        Z, you say that rich and poor is just a reality and it is nobody's fault.
                        Well, i dont agree. Was colonialism nobody's fault? Was slave owning nobody's fault? Was the US support to the dictature of the Shah of Iran's nobody fault?
                        What about responsablility? Are we not responsible for the suffering we create? If my brother dies without medicine while i buy a new car, i am not responsible for it? Are we not here to help all the suffering of the Kosmos?

                        Doc, you say that lack of birth control is responsible for many problems. In a way it might be so. But remember that in poor countries children is the only way to support one's old age. And now that this children are born can we just let them die? Why not spend money on birth control also?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by liutangsanzang View Post
                          Doc, you say that lack of birth control is responsible for many problems. In a way it might be so. But remember that in poor countries children is the only way to support one's old age.
                          Yes, I understand that. I've had enough Thai and Chinese girlfriends to know that, LOL. Babies not for love, babies for social security when they get old. It's part of the culture. Plus, in these countries, you need to have a few more because the health care and likewise is not as good as the west; children die, so better have enough so that some get through.

                          That's the conundrum. I'm not sure what the answer is.
                          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                          (more comments in my User Profile)
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                          • #14
                            Dear liutangsanzang.

                            Having seen how animals are treated in China, I am happy to see that you fight for the well being of animals. But please be advised that it is not a good idea to impose your idea on other people the way you are doing. It is only having the opposite effect.
                            I also understand your frustration about the current state of the world.

                            I'm going to quote something I wrote a few weeks ago.
                            I hope you will be able to read and understand this. I'm not saying that it is the truth. I don't know what the truth is, but it has some very important aspects that I think you should really consider and try to learn something from.

                            here it goes:

                            You shouldn’t let yourself be driven to despair by the state of the world or by the atrocious sides of human nature. As a person it simply is not possible to take responsibility for the events of an entire world. It is impossible to take responsibility even for your closest relatives or friends, even your own children. If you have just taken responsibility for yourself and your life, then, as far as it goes, you are already a saint.
                            Scrutinizing this idea, you will find that it implies exactly the personal responsibility for yourself and your own actions. This means being ashamed when you do bad things and be delighted when your actions bear fruit. But what are bad things and what does it mean to bear fruit? Is it some kind of predefined law that sets down what is right and what is wrong?

                            If you yourself take responsibility, then that could not possibly be a predefined or acquired sense of responsibility, because that wouldn’t be yourself taking responsibility, but someone or something doing it for you.
                            The sense of responsibility must come from your own deepest part of your heart. This is the difference between the “acquired duty” and the “innate duty”. The acquired duty is something that you learn or adapt to.
                            However, the problem is that the acquired duty takes up so much of our conscience, is so prevailing, that the connection to the personal responsibility is completely or partly disrupted or weakened. Even when we try to see through and feel convinced that we do, we are still not able to distinguish the acquired from the innate.
                            This process of “acquiring” another sense of responsibility, takes place rather early on. I suppose in most cases already around the age of 3-4, after which the development increases in pace with the upbringing and education. This happens in all societies, and not only with human beings.
                            Naturally, people are widely different, and many preserve this connection to the deeply personal, whereas many perhaps never were in possession of it.

                            The way that the acquired duty is interpreted, or embraced, also varies greatly from individual to individual. In worst cases it is in the form of worldly ambitions, such as: the desire to gain power, wealth, influence, fame, reputation, respect, and so forth.
                            What have these ambitions not caused! What torments have they not inflicted on this earth! Wars arise because of these worldly ambitions. Dangerous and ambitious men (in recent history, one example is Hitler) must have been driven forth in their political conquests and expeditions of war by either a wish to make their mark on history as a great personality, the joy of being powerful, or by the madness of nationalism.

                            Almost the same can be said about science. You have to remember that science as it is today is something created, and constantly further developed, by human beings. Humans are the motive power behind science. If there were no humans there would be no science. Even if in innocent naivety and gullibility, modern science was, however, developed by persons who had ambitions such as making a name for themselves, to be respected or to be remembered.
                            Naturally, for most personalities of modern science it has also been sheer interest and curiosity about the world which was the motive power behind the scientific studies. But none the less, the vast majority doesn’t shrink back from having some discovery, theory or formula named after themselves, should they have been so lucky to reach a ground-breaking result in their studies. Examples of things that have been named after their discoverer or inventor are overwhelming, especially within mathematics, chemistry and physics.

                            This phenomenon is also evident in the western world’s exploration and naming of countless coasts, mountains, rivers and islands. One example is Mount Everest. This mountain is named after a British cartographer by the name of George Everest. But for countless centuries, long before Europeans came to this part of the world, this mountain has always been known as Choma Langma in Tibetan. The name means “Goddess mother of the earth”. Quite a more satisfactory name!
                            It is also worth noting, that these mountains were seen as holy places, places reserved for the gods, places where you shouldn’t go. But for the Europeans, the first thing that came to mind was to climb it.

                            Before the age of the great European colonization, the vast majority of indigenous people around the world lived exactly as they had done for hundreds of thousands of years (that’s a long time!) with relatively few and small changes.
                            Why didn’t their societies develop, but stay the same for such an incredibly long time?
                            Why was it in Europe that the world suddenly began such striking changes? And why did it even happen?
                            The reason as to why and how it happens like this is to me incomprehensible, but the motive power was, and is, the ambition to do something out of the ordinary, to “become somebody”, to “make good”. This is exactly the motive that within each human in society pushes it forward towards new goals. The acquired duty.

                            Perhaps it is the white race which lacks an understanding of death and of the evanescence of life, and therefore, deliriously, seeks satisfaction in all the inconsistency. Or perhaps it is the widespread atheism after “The Enlightenment” (the fall of theocracy) in Europe, which has inspired a fear of death and the uncertainty of it, and therefore leads people to, in despair or in the obscure sweetness of atheism, to immortalize themselves by leaving their mark in the world.

                            However all of that may be, the wise person should see the world as something transient, something constantly changing, something that you cannot attach any values to, something beyond judgement, beyond right and wrong.
                            You can only take responsibility for yourself. Indeed, most people don’t even get that far.
                            Right and wrong, good and bad. Those things do not exist in the world. Everything is cause and effect. It is only at the very deepest personal level, that good and bad exist.

                            ....

                            Ok, so I hope you will keep on studying and keep on learning. The wise person only observes and try to absorb knowledge, and only imposes his ideas when he is absolutely sure that it will have the desired effect.

                            good luck!
                            Last edited by Asger; 05-11-2008, 09:09 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Z, you say that rich and poor is just a reality and it is nobody's fault.
                              Well, i dont agree. Was colonialism nobody's fault? Was slave owning nobody's fault? Was the US support to the dictature of the Shah of Iran's nobody fault?
                              ...You can try and change the subject all you want, but again, the fact that there are rich and poor is nobody's fault.

                              If you want to refute that, look at history and find me a time when the world's resources were divided evenly among humans. And if you can do that (hint: you can't), show me who was responsible for the change.

                              Originally posted by Asger
                              Why was it in Europe that the world suddenly began such striking changes?
                              It wasn't. More importantly, why does it matter?
                              Last edited by zachsan; 05-13-2008, 06:34 PM.

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