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Norway's Moose Population in Trouble for Belching

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  • #16
    Well, I'll agree with you that this world is hell, but not because of Israel, and not because the US supported the Shah. Iran's problem now has more to do with the upsurge of religious beliefs than some dictatorship years ago. And, in fact, from what friends who have been there tell me, the Iranians for the most part tend to be prowestern types who are taken by our ways and culture. It's their leadership that's causing the problems.

    You need to look at the history of the Jews, way way back, to understand who and what Israel is. They're not a terrorist state by any means. They're trying to survive in a world that doesn't want them.
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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    • #17
      My girlfriend's parents have told me that back in the day during the 60s and 70s, Iran was very much like America. It changed when the muslims took hold and started killing off the Christians.
      "For some reason I'm in a good mood today. I haven't left the house yet, though. "

      "fa hui, you make buddhism sexy." -Zachsan

      "Friends don't let friends do Taekwondo." -Nancy Reagan

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      • #18
        Lebanon was similar. Lebanon used to be the "Monte Carlo" of the Middle East back in those days. Full of Christians and Muslims who actually got along in a very nice, very wealthy society. (It was predominantly Christian as I am told).

        Well, not anymore.
        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

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        • #19
          Israel has the nuclear bomb and is a major danger for world peace.
          Israel has (allegedly) had the bomb for decades and despite several major wars since then it has never used nukes or threatened to use them or even admitted to having them.. in fact it's highly unlikely Israel would ever nuke another country in the region due to the risk of fall-out affecting Israel itself - it's a very very small country..

          I see it as a terrorist state.
          Unlike Hamastan (gaza backed by Iran)? Hizbollahstan (lebanon backed by Iran & Syria)? The Syrian dictatorship (also backed by Iran)? Iran itself (backed by lots and lots of oil and extreme religious fervor)?

          Israel certainly has its problems but it is in fact a free and democratic country where jews and arabs, christians, muslims, druze and others are represented in parliament and even serve in the army.

          During the Shah days Israel and Iran were friends.. now Irans leader threatens to 'wipe israel off the map' (or words to that effect) on an almost daily basis.. how times change!

          I know which I would trust more to have nukes..

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          • #20
            The figures show that in the recent years, Israel killed around 3 time more palestinians than there was Israelians killed. This is objective thinking. So Doc if you say Israel is not creating Hell you fall into an extreme. What about having responsabilities? Of course their violence is conditionned by terrorists and wars with his neighbors, but if you apply an emptiness view on that you can see Israel has responsabilities.

            Israel is violent and kill civilians and children. I thought you were against killing children. Isnt that a bit terrorist to kill children? You put BTL in Hell for harsh speech but do not put Israel in Hell for killing civilians and children? And i dont even speak about the fact that they do not follow UN resolutions, keep on creating colonies, humiliatiang and opressing the palestinian people.

            I read in article that more and more palestinians turn to religion and extremism. Before it was quite an open society. This is a result of Israel violence. Where can you find an identity and peace, when you are denied existence and under constant agression? People turn to religion and fanatism because of such conditions: it is emptiness. The Hezbollha is strong and create problems in Lebanon because Israel fuels violence. Of course Hezbollah and Iran are also responsible for that, it is a vicious circle. Doesnt the Dhammapada says that violence will not be ended by violence but by love. Where is Israel love?
            Would Gandhi agree to kill a palestinian children?

            You take a hell of a karma in backing israelian violence.

            As far as Iran is concerned i am not a specialist, but from what i have read the Shah's dictature was not kind on human rights. Why associate with such people? It is also a heavy karma and to deny western responsabilty in today's situation is again denying emptiness and falling into extremes. What about the weapons that were sold to Saddam to make war to Iran? The Dalai Lama talked about that western responsability in selling weapons to Saddam.

            How can you progress on the path of awakening if you dont see western and israelian violence and take responsabilities for this?

            Peace and love
            Last edited by liutangsanzang; 05-25-2008, 02:07 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by liutangsanzang View Post
              The figures show that in the recent years, Israel killed around 3 time more palestinians than there was Israelians killed. This is objective thinking. So Doc if you say Israel is not creating Hell you fall into an extreme.
              I think I'd rather be considered to be extreme than, oh, let's say, stupid. Let's look at a little Palestinian history, shall we?

              The 1948 Arab Israeli war caused many Palestinian Arabs to become "displaced". There are many reasons that are debated for this. One, it's thought that at times, the Israeli's demanded that these people leave. Two, the people might have left on their own for fear of being "on the battlefield". The most commonly accepted reason for these Palestinians to leave and move around, is that the neighboring Arab countries asked them to, to get them out of the way so that they're not treated as combattants. The end result: the Palestinians emigrated to some other Arab countries, including Transjordan, Egypt, and Syria.

              The problem was, once they got there, they discovered that they were unwanted. These countries just did not want to deal with the Palestinians; they ended up in refugee camps, some of which exist to this day. It's like being invited to a friend's house for dinner and having to eat in the yard with the dog. Citizenship, to absorb these refugees, was not commonly offered.

              The PLO also has an interesting history. This group moved around various countries, all the while finding that they were not wanted by their fellow Arabs either. Palestinian terrorists have played a role in almost all major terrorist activities since the "first" in the 1970's, either by direct actions, or in a supporting educational role. Your major European terrorist factions received some sort of assistance from these Palestinian groups.

              The Al Aqsa infitada, the terrorist movement against Israel, started with bombings against Israeli citizens in 1987. It continues to this day. What Israel does, they do to defend themselves and their country.

              So don't think that Israel has caused this hell for the Palestinians. Israel did not start the 1948 Arab Israeli war; the Arabs did. Israel did not start the Al Aqsa infitada. Israel did not embroil itself with various international terrorist activities.
              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

              "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

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              • #22
                The figures show that in the recent years, Israel killed around 3 time more palestinians than there was Israelians killed.
                The fact that the israeli army has a better aim and bigger bombs and palestinian terrorists can barely hit the side of a barn from 10 feet away does not in any way excuse the palestinians for their terrorism. When you prod a sleeping tiger, sooner or later it will wake and tear your head off - don't blame the tiger for its sharper teeth.

                Israel is violent and kill civilians and children. I thought you were against killing children. Isnt that a bit terrorist to kill children?
                War is violent, guns are dangerous, film at eleven.

                The HUGE difference that israel bashers choose to ignore is that israel specifically targets terrorists and sometimes civilians get caught in the cross fire, while palestinians specifically target civilians.

                To give some examples.. a suicide bomb at a disco by the dolphinarium in tel aviv - most of the dead were young teens.

                Israeli school bus targeted by suicide bombers not once, but TWICE! The first time they failed when israeli soldiers in a jeep intercepted the terrorists as they were about to ram the bus - the kids were saved while the soldiers got blown to bits. The second time the kids were not so lucky and many were dismembered..

                Almost every day for many years now the rockets have rained down on the Israeli town of Sderot and other villages in the area. Every day the kids have to run for the bomb shelters. Sometimes they dont make it and people die or get maimed.

                Just the other day a rocket landed on a mall in ashkelon.. right on top of a clinic filled with mothers and their children.

                Remind me which of the above (and countless others) are not deliberate strikes on civilians including children?

                All these thousands of rockets are from gaza - a region israel withdrew from years ago and hamas decided to turn into a battlefield. Just as israel withdrew 100% from lebanon (verified by the UN) many years ago yet hizbollah decided to launch an attack on israel resulting in yet another war (and still unfinished business).

                The palestinian refugees are merely a pawn in the middle east, used by the various regimes to deflect attention from their own internal problems. The fact that they are still refugees decades later is a disgrace on the arab world - not on israel.

                Where are the refugee camps filled with the hundreds of thousands of jews who were expelled or fled from the arab countries? Show me the arab countries welcoming them back to reclaim what was once theirs.

                In fact, show me the refugee camps anywhere else in the world still filled with refugees from countless conflicts over the last century. So much changed during that time, nations rose and fell, borders were redrawn, massive population movement.. yet only the palestinians remain stuck in that situation.. its easy to blame israel for everything of course and many do, but the truth is not so clear cut.

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                • #23
                  Well, now that we put a nail in that coffin, can we get back to belching moose?

                  Or does "mooses" sound better... I like "mooses". Sounds cool.
                  Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                  "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                  (more comments in my User Profile)
                  russbo.com


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                  • #24
                    OK, so what is your middle way approach to violence? Is Israel always right, even when killing children, not responsible for the violence while arab people are guilty?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by liutangsanzang View Post
                      OK, so what is your middle way approach to violence? Is Israel always right, even when killing children, not responsible for the violence while arab people are guilty?
                      No nation is always right, they are all managed by people and people are not infallible. (except for the pope )

                      In any war civilians suffer and in many past wars civilians were even the target - see all the cities on both sides flattened in WWII for example, not to mention Nagasaki and Hiroshima.. at least israel only targets combatants and tries to minimize civilian casualties even if not always successfully.

                      There's not much else Israel can do in the circumstances short of bending over and lubricating their you know what.

                      Although perhaps the belching moose could be unleashed. There ya go - thread neatly back on topic.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by liutangsanzang View Post
                        OK, so what is your middle way approach to violence?
                        Kill them all, LOL. You can't rationalize with some of these people. Let's look at another news article, today, that just happens to contribute to this train of thought:
                        Iran has secretly funded insurgent attacks on British soldiers stationed in southern Iraq, a British newspaper reported Sunday.

                        According to a leaked British government document obtained by London's Daily Telegraph, Jaish al-Mahdi (JAM) – also known as the Mahdi Army — used hundreds of thousands of dollars funneled from Iran to pay fighters to carry out strikes against U.K. forces in Basra.

                        The report, "Life Under Fire in the Old State Building", details how "Iranian finance teams" worked in the area to recruit and pay unemployed men up to $300 a month to becoming insurgent fighters, the Telegraph reported.

                        According to the report, discovery of Iran's involvement came from a network of 25 local sources, including a former Iraqi army general, prominent businessmen and local sheikhs.

                        A senior British officer said that, although officially denied, the existence of Iran's influence in Basra was widely known by the British military, the Telegraph reported.

                        British forces withdrew from the city in September 2007, but the leak is the latest evidence that Iran continues to send money and weapons into Iraq to fund insurgent activity, and comes amid rising tension between Iran and the international community over its denial that Tehran is developing a nuclear weapons program.
                        You can see Israel's problem here. How can you differentiate the combatants from the noncombatants? Is that Israel's fault, that the other side plays dirty?

                        The day's of "good wars" are over. Uniforms, tactics, military improvisation, all gone. It's all guerrilla warfare now. And as we learned in Vietnam, wars of this nature always cause undue civilian casualties.

                        Now, can we talk about moose again?
                        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                        (more comments in my User Profile)
                        russbo.com


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