911 is a joke

[Iron Cross]

Well, the only thing I can say to this is. A close friend of my sisters was living in washington at the time and physically watched the plane fly into the pentagon. Thats right folks. Using her own eyes. You know those round organs on your face. yes! They are more than just decorations. Light traveled 93 million miles or so from the sun, taking about 8 minutes to reach earth, where it then bounced off the plane about to hit the pentagon. This light then entered the eye balls of said witness where it was then processed by the brain.

Hell what am I saying. she must be part of the conspiracy too. She clearly works for the Illuminati to fake 9/11 to hide the fact that aliens were behind the kennedy assassination. Which, in itself was done to prepare the world for 9/11. Which, then allowed the government to start 2 wars and which have really gone nowhere and done nothing except hurt the economy of the world.

I'm sorry what was the government hoping to gain from all this again? In a few months these guys are all out of office. Then what?

[dogchow108]

then they elect the relative of a past president and hop right back in.

That is interesting though about your friend, forst eye whitness I have ever heard of. Would she be abe to recognize the plane if she saw one now?

[Iron Cross]

First eye witness? what are you talking about hundreds if not thousands of people saw it happen. Thats the reason why the whole "missile" theory is given no time in media circles. Because there are so many people who actually saw what happened. THats the reason this tuff is only talked about in small conspiracy theory circles.

[AlienT3kniX]

NPT, I know Iron Cross, it doesn't make sense but...

I have a friend in New York who is Israeli , she has seen terrorism before and said she also saw the FIRST jet fly WAY too low BEFORE any EXPLOSIONS. It DOESN'T mean that this jet hit ANYTHING.

So stay with with for a minute, I promise I can shed light on this...
We are talking about the trigger for WORLD DOMINATION, so the charade is MASSIVE DECEPTION and LABYRINTH in nature because they want people who care to find the truth to get lost along the way...

I didn't get lost so easy, but I did lose my way once or twice. It's a trick to deceive the public known as the Hegelian Dialectic, overcome them with mass amounts false details and facts that will not fit the crime...

1st) Look into even commercial level holograms look what can be done on a budget:
http://www.arena3d.com/tradeshow/xst..._launches.html
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIcsYBZSQ48"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIcsYBZSQ48[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HicaK7NTHQI&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HicaK7NTHQI&feature=related[/ame]


Now imagine what can be done a when U have an unlimited budget...

Maybe the PARENT technology to this scaled down commercial version, notice on the Arena3D website, who is the BIGGEST sponsor of Large scale holograms... I will help U, the US ARMY!

So yes Iron Cross , I believe there were planes flying low that day, FOR ALL TOO SEE!

So think about this part for awhile and I will proceed later...

[dogchow108]

yea but of these thousands ive heard of you are the firstone who ive seen who knows any of them.Did she see the plane actually crash into the pentagon? im not doubting you, i really really wish it would turn out that all the conspiracies are bullshit, but i mean you know no body at least that i have heard of has really refuted the clip from the security camera.by the way the people in charge of a society have every interest in creating the kind of situation we are in.

[Maestro]

isnt funny how the 2 most well off people on this forum are the ones who dont get it or refute it(iron cross).

i cant say rich because of course they dont have enough dough lolo, they not rich just "well off"

and give me a break, my sisters friend saw the plane in washington, lolo.

if thats true why werent the tapes released from all the cameras that taped the "plane" crashing into the pentagon. u really think the pentagon only has that one camera? and what about the path the "plane" took on its way to the pentagon, its said it flew right over the highway, where is the footage from that?

but your sisters friend told u so... lolo. does she smoke crack as well like most rich whiteys in america? was she smoking it then?

[onesp1ng]

thanks for the cynisism and sarcasm, cross -- but you may be right.

i've read the eyewitness testimony, and it seems to corroborate the pentagon's official story pretty well. even some leading "truthers" (ie. conspiracy theororists), seem to agree.

here is a very well thought out and argued essay, for instance, concerning the no-plane theory, by jim hoffman.

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html#debris

In this essay I asked what conclusions about the Pentagon attack were supported by physical evidence -- primarily post-crash photographs of the site. I found that, in every aspect I considered, this evidence comports with the crash of a Boeing 757. At the same time, the evidence does not conclusively prove that the aircraft was a 757, much less that it was Flight 77. However, that lack of conclusiveness should not be surprising given the systematic suppression of evidence by authorities.

personally, i have no stake in this one way or another. in fact, i'm hoping you are right. my goal is to but better understand and grasp the situation as a whole, meaning i'm open to evidence on both sides.

by chance, do you think your friend would be willing to share her story with us?

[Iron Cross]

Dog... Yeah she woke up that morning and was planning on going to work like any other day. SHe looked out her window in time to see a big ass plane ram into the pentagon followed by a huge fireball. Some scary shit if you ask me.

I mean you can pile on all the BS you want about Missiles and Conspiracies but truth is a plane flew into that building. Roll credits the end.

[onesp1ng]

cross, what you're not understanding is that the majority of people don't have friends who witnessed the event. there is also a very limited amount of evidence in favor of your position, since all the video evidence has been confiscated. your firned's remarks are just hearsay to many. likewise, i can tell of how i saw santa claus flying with his reindeer over my house when i was eleven, but who will believe me without proof?

to say: "truth is a plane flew into that building. Roll credits the end " - doesn't really do anything but help to continue the controversy. i did more for your own argument than you did yourself.

this discussion would serve everyone better if we tried a bit more to be objective and well-informed, rather than right all the time and judgemental.

[dogchow108]

Icross-

Word, that is interesting. I'm kind of interested to hear what you think about a few other claims/observations if you dont mind commenting on them



The lack of clearly visible aircraft parts

The idea that there should even BE any clearly visible debris

The claim that the explosion seemed to be outward rather than inward


Also, what do you guys think of this?

[dogchow108]

Oh hey this is kind of interesting http://files.meetup.com/246729/9-11_references.htm

[onesp1ng]

i was misinformed and wrong about what i said about the black boxes. the ones in the planes that hit the towers - though argued by some - are the only ones said to be missing.

'All four of the devices were recovered from the two planes that hit the Pentagon and that crashed in rural Pennsylvania. In the case of American Airlines Flight 77, which hit the Pentagon, the FBI reports that the flight data recorder survived and had recoverable information, but the voice recorder was allegedly too damaged to provide any record. In the case of United Airlines Flight 93, which hit the ground at 500 mph in Pennsylvania, the situation was reversed: the voice recorder survived but the flight data box was allegedly damaged beyond recovery.'

although i can't find the actual contents that were made public, this seems to have been verified by many sources. since it appears reliable, the no-plane theory must loose a bit of credibility, i'd think.

http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff12202005.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1543564.stm

regarding the black boxes within flights 11 and 175, to date, federal authorities still claim that: 'they were never located.' contradictions, however, exist between the official story and at least two (which include 3 peoples') eyewitness reports.

for example,

'two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them.'

one firefighter commented:

'At one point I was assigned to take Federal Agents around the site to search for the black boxes from the planes. We were getting ready to go out. My ATV was parked at the top of the stairs at the Brooks Brothers entrance area. We loaded up about a million dollars worth of equipment and strapped it into the ATV. When we got into the ATV to take off, the agent accidentally pushed me forward. The ATV was already in reverse, and my foot went down on the gas pedal. We went down the stairs in reverse. Fortunately, everything was okay. There were a total of four black boxes. We found three.'

he even wrote a book about hsi experience. http://summeroftruth.org/groundzero.html

and a source at ntsb (the national transportation safety board), also added to the skepticism concerning the official account when it was said and reported (by counterpunch) that the boxes had in fact been recovered from ground zero.

'Off the record, we had the boxes," the source says. "You'd have to get the official word from the FBI as to where they are, but we worked on them here.'

[Iron Cross]

If people want to continue to believe it was all a conspiracy then there is really nothing I can do to convince you. Now its like arguing religion. If you WANT to believe it was and NEED to believe it was, or even have FAITH that is was, then nothing I saw will convince you short of taking you back in time to see it actually happen. I bet we would be arguing about whether or not planes actually hit the WTC center except there is really good and clear video of that. The problem with the security camera footage is most security cameras dont run at the standard 24 frames per second as that would take up too much storage space. So, most run at a slower speed like 10-15 frames per second. Thats why when you see security footage it looks so choppy. The field of view for that camera isnt spectacular. So, it may very well appear that there was nothing then an explosion.

As for the lack of plane parts. Well, its simple really. Planes are not solid objects like they appear. Basically there are thin shells of metal. When one hits the ground its disintegrates. Combine that with the fact it was hitting a solid building and not just the ground and there will be nothing left. I could talk about various plane crashes and the dynamics of it for hours. I went to an Aeronautical school (which ironically is where they thought some of the hijackers learned to fly. After the event we had FBI all over the place even though it turned out they were in a school just south of us. A Place I've actually been flying at. My pilot friends used to take day trips out of there. Crazy eh) and have taken courses on plane crashes. BUt to be completely honest I just dont care enough. If you all want to stay here arguing about this despite what actually happened then there is really nothing I can say or do to change your minds.

Normally a objective argument would be best onsp1ng. However, in this case there is no argument. I am right and the conspiracy theories are WRONG. I just dont care enough anymore to continue arguing about this. There is plenty of corroborated evidence for al these events you are just ignoring it or calling it "government propaganda".

No more 9/11 talk for me. Maybe I'll go back to talking about Palins daughter. lol

[Maestro]

choppy video eh, what does that have to do with that being the only video. 1 camera, 1 camera is that right?

and your sisters friend is full of shit btw. i wouldnt be surprised if you were lieing and it was really a your sisters friends friendly friendester from myspace named georga bullshit.

[dogchow108]

Maestro I want your babies.


For dinner.


Icross,

The truth is that this whole 9/11 conspiracy thing....it is really more just a mental excercise for most people than anything. Even if I believed the conspiracies to their marrow Im not so sure it would make that big a difference. I still prefer to live in the US over my country of origin, I still pay taxes and I give moral support to my countrymen where I see it appropriate.

But if nothing else, a good dose of dissent goes a long way to offset a train wreck heading in the wrong direction.

I agree with you that what the individual believes is what it ultimately boils down to, but i think that if you jump ship on an argument prematurely and without warrant as your last post implied, it might be because the ideas seriously challenge your perceptions of what is real and not. Is that not, then , a better reaon than any to further pursue the issue?