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  • #31
    So dear 1, this time i ve not claimed that we have buddha nature, at least conciously, but asked the question
    yes, you did, but your questions appear rhetorical, which lead people to think you already know the answer.
    ZhongwenMovies.com

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    • #32
      Well, maybe we do know the answer, consciously or unconsciously, but we are not aware of it. And from where do your ideas come, inside or outside, you or guanyin, you or the devil?

      For those who dont want to talk about non violence from a pedestal, an interesting way to connect with people is youtube. So far i ve connected with muslims, hindus and basques and it is interesting to understand their point of view, even if it seems extremes, and share some compassion. By the way there are some pretty hardcore hating hindus. Type Pakistan, Kashmir, for instance...

      Peace and love

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      • #33
        Z, about my attempt to express my ignorance by saying i m neither buddhist nor non buddhist, which might be not very clear i agree, here is what the Diamond Sutra (Vajrachedikka prajnaparamita sutta) says about truth:

        Subhuti, what do you think? Has the Tathagata attained the Consummation of Incomparable Enlightenment? Has the Tathagata a teaching to enunciate?

        Subhuti answered: As I understand Buddha's meaning there is no formulation of truth called Consummation of Incomparable Enlightenment. Moreover, the Tathagata has no formulated teaching to enunciate. Wherefore? Because the Tathagata has said that truth is uncontainable and inexpressible. It neither is nor is it not. Thus it is that this unformulated Principle is the foundation of the different systems of all the sages

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        • #34
          why then do other buddhists admit they're, in deed, buddhists? it seems the diamond sutra is discussing truth, not whether or not to claim one is buddhist or not. or, are you, in your loyalty to "ignorance," actually wiser then they???
          ZhongwenMovies.com

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          • #35
            Hey traveller.

            People probably have a lot of different motivations for considering themselves as buddhist: believing, having took refuge, practicing meditation.

            Thanks for raising the ego problem. I ve not thought my approach of ignorance is wiser in this case. I just try to express my feeling. Like u, i dont want to be prisonner of a false belief, so i dont engage in buddhism with blind faith.

            A lot of buddhists are also quite detached about buddhism. It is coherent with the so called teaching of Sakyamuni. I ve already quoted the Kalama sutta where it is said one should doubt and have an individual appreciation of what is good. There is also the famous simile of the raft, where it is said that after having crossed to the other shore one can abandon the teachings. Its meaning is a bit obscure to me, but it is relevant to the buddhist idea of not sticking to point of views (ditti).

            Peace and love

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            • #36
              Fa Hui, here is a commentary of a Theravada monk that might imply that to meditate on non violence ie actions and their effect is more important than to meditate on the true nature of reality:

              "
              Throughout this description, emptiness means one thing: empty of disturbance or stress. The meditator is taught to appreciate the lack of disturbance as a positive accomplishment, and to see any remaining disturbance created by the mind, however subtle, as a problem to be solved.

              When you understand disturbance as a subtle form of harm, you see the connections between this description of emptiness and the Buddha's instructions to Rahula. Instead of regarding his meditative states as a measure of self-identity or self-worth — in having developed a self that's purer, more expansive, more at one with the ground of being — the monk views them simply in terms of actions and their consequences. And the same principles apply here, on the meditative level, as apply in the Buddha's comments to Rahula on action in general.

              Here, the action is the perception that underlies your state of meditative concentration. You settle into the state by repeating the action of perception continually until you are thoroughly familiar with it. Just as Rahula discovered the consequences of his actions by observing the obvious harm done to himself or to others, here you discover the consequences of concentrating on the perception by seeing how much disturbance arises from the mental action. As you sense disturbance, you can change your mental action, moving your concentration to a more refined perception, until ultimately you can stop the fabrication of mental states altogether.

              At the core of this meditation practice are two important principles derived from the instructions to Rahula. The first is honesty: the ability to be free of embellishment or denial, adding no interpretation to the disturbance actually present, while at the same time not trying to deny that it's there. An integral part of this honesty is the ability to see things simply as action and result, without reading into them the conceit "I am."

              The second principle is compassion — the desire to end suffering — in that you keep trying to abandon the causes of stress and disturbance wherever you find them. The effects of this compassion extend not only to yourself, but to others as well. When you don't weigh yourself down with stress, you're less likely to be a burden to others; you're also in a better position to help shoulder their burdens when need be. In this way, the principles of integrity and compassion underlie even the most subtle expressions of the wisdom leading to release."

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              • #37
                there is no way to live a non violent life. your every breath destroys, your every step takes life. even eating plants destroys sentient life and brings harm to others. this can not be escaped but in one way.

                you need to come to grips with the face of glory. look it up.

                the only way to live in pure non violence is to feed yourself back to the universe and snuff yourself out.

                clearly, this ultimate logical conclusion does not express true wisdom and is not a true path. don't kill yourself.
                "Arhat, I am your father..."
                -the Dark Lord Cod

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                • #38
                  I can think of a few people who I should suggest that to...

                  OH, and by the way, you can live a non violent life in Las Vegas.

                  In church.

                  Which if I remember correctly, you're due for.
                  Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                  "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                  (more comments in my User Profile)
                  russbo.com


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                  • #39
                    To say life is violence, plants do suffer, is a kind of jain view.

                    Personally i cannot see tomatoes expressing any suffering, wanting to run away or having a nervous system, contrary to most animals.

                    I dont know on what ground u say a tomato suffers. It seems a belief u hold as truth.

                    So i would tend to say that having a tomato as dinner is non violent and that it is possible to have a very non violent life.

                    I dont know though.

                    Peace and love

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                    • #40
                      Are you talking to me???

                      Some of you guys watch what you say, I actually check the forums from time to time. Thanks Doc for mentioning the film and for your support. Now that I look back, probably it's better that Doc wasn't filmed, cause he would get cut out during editing! The story doesn't follow temple or Kung Fu politics, it follows 4 people as they search for their dreams in Shaolin. Now I'm sorry if some of you went to Shaolin and it did not live up to your expectations. I'm even more sorry for those who never went to Shaolin and yell out that it's a communist wasteland. You are what you think, and believe it or not, there IS real tradition in Shaolin and you can find great things. Talking about Buddhism, open your minds and your heart :-) Now my advice to you would be to get off your keyboards and go practice your mabu, or at least go watch The Real Shaolin when it comes to a theater near you! That's it for now.

                      Best,
                      Alexander

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                      • #41
                        lolo at alexander, watch what we say, what is that about. why should i watch what i say, so as to not offend you or what

                        ive never been to shaolin, and some of the monks have some serious skills, but then again, their skills are very common in chinese martial arts even japan lolo.

                        "it follows 4 people as they search for their dreams in Shaolin"

                        besides the magical number 4 that is what every shaolin doc is about, people going to shaolin to learn its magical kung fu and to live their dream. im not one to squash peoples dreams, but the sad fact of the matter is, most of these people dont know anything

                        they dont know what real gung fu is, or how to practice it so why are they going to shaolin? most of the best legends in gung fu are about experienced martial artists going to shaolin to advance their already formidable skills, not to begin gung fu training, and how to stretch, and how to do flips and cartwheels and shit.

                        shaolin isnt what it used to be. the monks cant fight. they arent humble buddhists. their training is nothing special and worst of all they only really care about money and fame and getting the name out there

                        the ****ed up thing is shaolin is giving SHAOLIN a bad name lolo. they are screwing people like me and others over everyday. everytime someone like you makes a documentary you are seriously doing a number on traditional martial artists and how we are viewed.

                        its almost like theres a conspiracy to make us look bad. sometimes i just wish that the teachers with the real skills werent so humble and unphased by the bullshit, maybe they know better then me i dont know, but its really ****ing sad that this is the state of shaolin martial arts
                        "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                        • #42
                          Badgering me for almost two years about getting me into your documentary, and I would have ended up on the floor?

                          LOL...

                          (You should have pursued the various political aspects, instead of the usual routine "I went to Shaolin and became enlightened" bullshit).
                          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                          (more comments in my User Profile)
                          russbo.com


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                          • #43
                            Maestro,

                            It doesn't surprise me that you've never been to Shaolin, as it shows in the way you talk about the place. You have certain expectations from Shaolin, label it as crap, without ever visiting. You seem like an intelligent guy, but when you say that "most of these people [who visit Shaolin] dont know anything", who are you to say that? What do you know??? Set aside your prejudice and learn to be humble. The most basic tenets of martial arts are driven by "Wude", martial ethics. Going onto a Shaolin forum daily, complaining about Shaolin when you haven't been there and saying that the people who travel to Shaolin "don't know anything" sounds silly to me. My feeling though is if you do end up visiting Shaolin, it will turn out to be exactly what you think it is. Which is kinda the thesis of my film, it's called "The Real Shaolin" as reality is subjective and can vary from individual to individual. If you're mature enough to embrace Shaolin after hearing all these negative things, then I would begin to have respect for you. That's it for me for now, I have too much going on with the festival for spats.

                            Doc, I think this is a call to action for Doc's doc. I'm sure all who visit the forum would pay to see that one :-)

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                            • #44
                              "You seem like an intelligent guy, but when you say that "most of these people [who visit Shaolin] dont know anything", who are you to say that? What do you know??? Set aside your prejudice and learn to be humble."

                              ive been practicing southern shaolin(hung ga) since i was 18, ive trained here in america and abroad in Hong to the kIzzle lolo. my first teacher went to shaolin and trained with de cheng and other monks in san da and other skills, he once taught us a few of their basic exercises, warmups, flying kicks and whatever. im not saying im expert just saying..i have also been coming to this site since i was 15 or so..i suppose that entitles me to some kind of oppinion about shaolin..ive also seen pretty much every martial arts document known to man..that includes shaolin i guess lolo

                              anyway, im just a guy that loves shaolin, i am a humble person, i dont consider myself a "shaolin stylist" im just a gung fu man really. i spend alot of time doing what i must, im open minded i spar as often as i can with anyone whatever size whatever style i just want to advance my skills and i dont fear anything in this world. im always open to learning more, always willing to empty my cup. im the eternal white belt lolo.

                              the reason i say what i do is because you can tell alot from the documentarys. a picture tells a thousand words or whatever the saying is true. you know shaolin gung fu isnt magical, its not like using bad structure is somehow made good just because your in shaolin lolo. and speed and power and overall fighting skills are what they are

                              timing, distance and spacing, angles footwork all those things play a role in what i consider a good fighter, a good martial artist. also, energy and how to manipulate gung fu energy is important to me, if it isnt being utilized then how are people doing anything but swining the arms and legs around

                              u know, some of the monks are good like i said before. they have serious skills that only come from hardwork and good teaching but the fact of the matter is all the stuff i say about SHAOLIN is true. im not talking abotu de cheng, or de yang or yan lei or any monk..im talking about shaolin.

                              now if u did a documentary on chinese martial arts and did a small bit about 4 goofs doing their thing in shaolin and getting their perspective then moving on to chen villag and beijing and whatever thatd be cool

                              but u did it on shaolin lolo, and u did it on 4 goofy people.

                              and my oppinion is what it is
                              "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                              • #45
                                Cool. Despite your prejudgment, I think you would like the movie. I'm not sure where you are, but when the movie is released in your area go watch it and then let people know what you think. I've spent 5 years working on it, and as you can imagine I'm very proud of it. You might be surprised by what you see.

                                Best,
                                Alexander

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