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Why are many older Gong-Fu monks in terrible condition ?

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  • Why are many older Gong-Fu monks in terrible condition ?

    Anyone else noticed how the men who practiced Gong-fu and Qi-Gong (as i understand a healing practice) are sick or criple in their last years?

    F.e. in a docu about Shi De Yang you could see Shi Suxi who had to be kept straight by 2 monks to walk.
    And there are many other examples,
    but i must also mention that some do maintain their health in body and are able to do frontsplits at age 80. (It's the only example that jumps to mind i'm sure off)


    Still i wonder; do all (gong-fu) monks really grasp the true meaning of their practice, or do they all give a different meaning to their practice?

    I thought they went trough all this hardening to cultivate inner strength, but what good is it if that catches up with you and you are struck down?


    Please share your thoughts, or point out what i overlooked

  • #2
    Originally posted by itsjustaname View Post
    Anyone else noticed how the men who practiced Gong-fu and Qi-Gong (as i understand a healing practice) are sick or criple in their last years?

    F.e. in a docu about Shi De Yang you could see Shi Suxi who had to be kept straight by 2 monks to walk.
    And there are many other examples,
    but i must also mention that some do maintain their health in body and are able to do frontsplits at age 80. (It's the only example that jumps to mind i'm sure off)


    Still i wonder; do all (gong-fu) monks really grasp the true meaning of their practice, or do they all give a different meaning to their practice?

    I thought they went trough all this hardening to cultivate inner strength, but what good is it if that catches up with you and you are struck down?


    Please share your thoughts, or point out what i overlooked
    Shit happens. We are all meant to grow old, get sick, and die. It's a natural part of living, some fair better than others based on available health-care, certain hardships some have to do endure, and other such variables.

    I'm not sure if you live in a more Western country, but China from what I've read and heard from others like Doc, has had little to no medical care. That makes a big difference in how well people live and how well they do when they're older.

    In terms of Shi Suxi, he had Parkinson's disease which is neurological degenerative disease:

    Most people with Parkinson's disease are described as having idiopathic Parkinson's disease (having no specific cause). There are far less common causes of Parkinson's disease including genetic, toxins, head trauma, cerebral anoxia, and drug-induced Parkinson's disease. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_disease
    It's important to keep things like this in mind. Despite whatever you've heard about the miraculous healing powers of qi, use some common sense here. When looked upon objectively, qigong and gongfu are a form calisthenic exercise that have a tremendous effect on body's structure and processes. However, they are not a cure all or prevent all. Anyone who neglects a primary care physician or necessary medical practice, thinking that qigong is going to cure is fooling themselves.

    Read what Doc has written about qi and qigong, and about the times he has had to be a doctor to many of the monks in and around Shaolin. It's an eye-opener. When you hear about the mystical wonders of qi, just take it with a grain of salt.

    In short, don't always believe what you hear.
    "For some reason I'm in a good mood today. I haven't left the house yet, though. "

    "fa hui, you make buddhism sexy." -Zachsan

    "Friends don't let friends do Taekwondo." -Nancy Reagan

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    • #3
      yeh people are different, for the most part if u practice gung fu everyday you will benefit in old age. thats just what it is. if u dont believe that then obviously u wont practice, so you will never know.

      then again there are alot of old masters out there who still take challenges, there are plenty of old masters who are in better shape then most americans who have real good medical care and nutrition.

      staying active ingeneral is proven to have an effect on how your body breaks down overtime. gung fu is different then just staying active..much different, but thats another topic
      "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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      • #4
        Not exactly true Maestro.

        One problem is, when we're born, we're dealt a set of genes, that sometimes predetermines our health in the future.

        Hard to change that.

        And, of course, shit happens. I can attest to that.
        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

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        • #5
          "One problem is, when we're born, we're dealt a set of genes, that sometimes predetermines our health in the future."

          genes and their role are taught at an early age, thanks for the lesson though.

          the topic was about gung fu practitioners(monks) and their health in old age. su xi obviously had bunk genes lolo. that doesnt mean his gung fu was bad or that practicing gung fu doesnt have a positive effect on how you age, how you feel as you age, your overall health and ability through youth and old age etc etc

          physical fitness or lack of it does effect how fast the body breaks down, so does nutirition..lolo and genes. but not only that it effects how you feel while you are living, no matter what age..i think that matters more then how you die
          "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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          • #6
            Originally posted by itsjustaname View Post
            Anyone else noticed how the men who practiced Gong-fu and Qi-Gong (as i understand a healing practice) are sick or criple in their last years?
            It depends on what you mean by sick and crippled. Old kung fu guys will tend to have a certain look because of the way kung fu works in the human body. They look sick or crippled, but actually that is the predictable effects on their body of the kung fu they practice.

            Originally posted by itsjustaname View Post
            Still i wonder; do all (gong-fu) monks really grasp the true meaning of their practice, or do they all give a different meaning to their practice?

            Please share your thoughts, or point out what i overlooked
            Not all Chinese kung fu men grasp the true meaning of their practice. There are levels of knowledge within Chinese society just like any other area of knowledge.

            I read about a Chinese kung fu guy who "got diabetes and had a foot amputated". I think it was diabetes.

            To test a hypothesis, I wrote to a student of the man, the man had died long since, and asked him which foot was amputated. The student wouldn't tell me which foot was amputated, and he started singing hosassanas about the chinese guy. I think he wouldn't answer me because he thought I was going to try to tarnish the chinese guys reputation.

            The chinese guy may have had diabetes, I don't know. But I believe his foot had to be amputated because of either his improper practice of kung fu, or because of pushing himself too hard in the proper practice of kung fu.

            Do you have pictures of these guys you have in mind? I can tell you my opinions of them if I can look at them. I have the ability to diagnose the gross large scale physical condition of the body of other human beings by looking at them.

            I should be able to tell you if they are sick, or if I think they practiced kung fu incorrectly. I will also explain why I think what I do. Please do not think my opinions are nothing more than pronouncements from on high. I should be able to explain the reasons for my conclusions to any thinking and patient person.

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            • #7
              Thank all you for your answers;


              Originally posted by mbokohutu View Post
              . They look sick or crippled, but actually that is the predictable effects on their body of the kung fu they practice.


              Not all Chinese kung fu men grasp the true meaning of their practice. There are levels of knowledge within Chinese society just like any other area of knowledge.


              The chinese guy may have had diabetes, I don't know. But I believe his foot had to be amputated because of either his improper practice of kung fu, or because of pushing himself too hard in the proper practice of kung fu.

              Do you have pictures of these guys you have in mind? I can tell you my opinions of them if I can look at them. I have the ability to diagnose the gross large scale physical condition of the body of other human beings by looking at them.

              I should be able to tell you if they are sick, or if I think they practiced kung fu incorrectly. I will also explain why I think what I do. Please do not think my opinions are nothing more than pronouncements from on high. I should be able to explain the reasons for my conclusions to any thinking and patient person.

              You talk about "predicatable effects", then can you tell us how to keep or bodies as they are, or how the symptons for predictable effects can be seen and 'cured'?

              That's exactly what i think, some grasp beyond the original meaning of their practice, but who is to blame, the student or the teacher?
              or is it tradition or just this way that the teacher shows and the student just has to learn by himself, even if it cripples him/her later on?

              And then how should we judge a teacher who has not only grasped but applied the "true meaning" ?

              not really, but you made me curious , so go ahead
              i can only (after a small search) find pictures of their head, otherwise its enrobed and not so clear.

              [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/GEBRUI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/GEBRUI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/GEBRUI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.jpg[/IMG]http://www.authenticshaolin.com/images/suxi1.jpg

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              • #8
                What do you think is wrong with the guys head? Looks within the bounds of normality on the first glance.

                When I say "predictable effects", I mean that if you want a certain type of kung fu power, or kung fu power in general, your body will change in a predictable way, because it has to work in a certain way to generate kung fu power.

                So if you wanted kung fu power, then becoming crippled in some way as a by product of attaining kung fu power would not be a problem for you, because you were making a conscious choice. Kung fu power for various changes to your body that some people would view as being negative.

                Find me a good picture. I have a good one in mind, but I don't really wanna post it.

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                • #9
                  I have no specific examples in mind, just curious what you would comment.

                  Please share your example(s) with us, we are eager to learn the difference.


                  Can you please say something more on """ (y)our body will change in a predictable way, because it has to work in a certain way to generate kung fu power""" and """Kung fu power for various changes to your body that some people would view as being negative"""

                  are you implying that getting cripled later on is some sort of overcompensation of being athelticly powerful before?
                  if so, than to me, the true meaning of training has not been grasped.
                  If one understands the body and the various ways of using/applying it, this understanding should not only be used in 'athletic' aspects, but in all aspects of being, be it fighting, training or aging

                  please enlighten me on these changes, can you be more detailed?
                  what could be seen as the negative aspect of training to 'super'-shape,
                  expect that it will cost you dedication 24/7 for a lifetime, and thereby, giving up one lifestyle, and finding/creating another?


                  thank you for aiding to this interesting discussion,
                  in curious awaitance of your answers
                  A. Body

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                  • #10
                    What do you mean by cripple?

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                    • #11
                      not jumping and splitting at will

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                      • #12
                        The answer to that question, then , is in your last post.

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                        • #13
                          Yes, i know what i think and mean, in a conversation we try to exchange with others. I have my views, i'm just curious about yours.

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                          • #14
                            i like what he has to say about the topic

                            [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm3CmNE72Bw"]YouTube - 10 dan[/ame]
                            "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                            • #15
                              I wonder what National Geographic has to say about the "topic"..

                              Good post Maestro. There's actually a lot said in that.
                              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                              "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                              (more comments in my User Profile)
                              russbo.com


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