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shaolin gongfu's relationship to buddhism

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  • #16
    I have to agree that practicing gong fu is meditating.
    I don't do much gong fu, but do a lot of t'ai chi, and I use my t'ai chi forms as a walking meditation.

    Studying gong fu, if done properly, not just using it as physical forms, means opening your mind, your chi lines, your spiritual side. You become more aware, and before you realise it, your mind is much more aware. You're practicing Buddhism without even realising it.

    Djon Ma
    Karma Dechen Djon Ma
    "For as long as space endures, And as long as living beings remain, Until then may I too abide, To dispel the misery of the world."
    Shantideva

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    • #17
      Hmm a bit of clarification.
      Strip away all of the rituals and teachings and paths...
      Buddhism is about knowing yourself.
      Knowing yourself totally and uterlly, and realising who and what you are, and your place in the universe, and that everything is within you and that you are within everything.
      It is total awareness of yourself, and knowing that yourself isn't really anything.
      That's what gong fu does - it makes you totally and utterly aware of yourself and your body.

      If you close your eyes, you can feel exactly where every part of your body is, and what it's doing, what the energy in each bit is doing, how it's flowing.
      That is learnt through Gong Fu, Qigong, T'ai Chi.

      That is the very essence of Buddhism.

      Know yourself and then you will know everybody.

      Djon Ma
      Karma Dechen Djon Ma
      "For as long as space endures, And as long as living beings remain, Until then may I too abide, To dispel the misery of the world."
      Shantideva

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      • #18
        very well said, djonma. _/\_

        in fact i would say you cant tell where the meditation starts and where it ends. and further, gongfu doesnt work without meditation.

        it helps you become aware of yourself, as you said, which helps to become aware of others and the world around you. without an open and relaxed mind, you'll likely react to an attack situation with fear and aversion. by that time you will have already lost the fight.

        an interesting study was done on school children across the nation. i dont remember too many details on it anymore. but basically it connected bodily awareness with ethical behavior later in life.

        the kids who were schooled where there was a lot of physical activity in learning school subjects like mathematics or such, and a lot of physical interaction with partners, later in life had higher "ethical iq's". so increased bodily awareness of oneself and others may often lead to higher moral conduct and thinking.

        i'm sure the practice of gongfu may have similar effects. of course though it has to go hand-in-hand with general education. there are many immoral people who are excellent at gongfu in dengfeng. doc may know a few.... but i dont think many of them have a strong general education. so, it may not be the best place to test.

        although, i've noticed the wonderfully kind attitude of many children training along side hundreds of other children at shaolin schools in dengfeng. wonder if the physical interaction in gongfu training affects their ethical iq's as well.

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        • #19
          thanks for your comments.

          i agree that one needs to be mindful in practicing gongfu.

          to say we're 'practicing buddhism without even realising it,' however, isn't something i quite get. there seems to be a jump contextually from practice and self-inquiry to 'buddhism.' buddhism has somehow become representative of the state of uncovery, in other words, rather than the nature of the process itself. although i see that the ideas overlap, why so much emphasis is given to buddhism specifically (in terms of gongfu practice) is still a bit of a mystery to me.

          i don't know - what gongfu assists in doing, may, in fact, be the 'essence of buddhism.' but buddhism also comes with a very specific set of beliefs.

          it's like to saying....

          streching = yoga, or hinduism
          contemplation or thinking = christian meditation
          god = ahura mazda, zues, or krishna
          nonviolence = jainism
          not eating = fasting, or islam
          or that...
          crime = sin

          etc...

          does buddhism somehow extend to include everyone who decides to practice in the arts?
          Last edited by onesp1ng; 12-09-2008, 05:22 AM.
          ZhongwenMovies.com

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          • #20
            your comparisons arent the same at all. and being mindful isnt the same at all as being in a meditative state during practice.

            what im interested in is why djonma and alot of other people seem to seperate taiji and gung fu lolo as if..taiji isnt gung fu...lolo
            "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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            • #21
              i agree, onesp1ng. you cant practice "buddhism" without knowing it. however, when you cut right down to it dharma is found in everything. ones practice can unknowingly be in accordance with the dharma, but not necessarily the whole package of buddhism. i doubt djonma meant it that way.

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              • #22
                practice, to me, is personal and needs no external sign of affiliation.

                if you honestly want to practice, just practice honestly.
                i think you said it well in this statement above, lfj.

                maestro, i simply gave some examples that attempt to illustrate a point. they are not all the same, but there are similarities. that's why i used the word 'like.'

                as for the idea of dharma being found in everything, how do we know that? were does that belief/understanding stem from exactly?
                ZhongwenMovies.com

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                • #23
                  You can practice the very basics of some areas of Buddhism without knowing anything about Buddhism, or that Buddhism exists.
                  How else did Shakyamuni Buddha become enlightened?
                  You realise that your physical practice is leading to greater mental awareness, and you reach a certain level mentally. It's good.

                  As for seperating T'ai Chi and Gong Fu... well... if I tried to do some of the moves they teach as Gong Fu, not T'ai Chi, I'd dislocate a whole load of my joints.
                  Realistically, they're the same thing - I do things at what is considered normal T'ai Chi speeds, because my body cannot handle much more due to medical issues.
                  But they're the same thing.

                  In a proper straight up fight though, I'd be pretty useless, unless I actually get somewhere in leaning 'Inner' Gong Fu, and the pressure point blockages, but then I'm non-violence, so I don't really agree with fighting, unless it's to help someone else from being beaten.

                  Djon Ma
                  Karma Dechen Djon Ma
                  "For as long as space endures, And as long as living beings remain, Until then may I too abide, To dispel the misery of the world."
                  Shantideva

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Djonma View Post
                    You can practice the very basics of some areas of Buddhism without knowing anything about Buddhism, or that Buddhism exists.
                    How else did Shakyamuni Buddha become enlightened?
                    i think you are attaching the concept of "buddhism" to some ethical standards or principles of practice. but they can be found in virtually every religion.

                    furthermore, shakyamuni buddha was not a "buddhist", before or after his awakening. there was no such thing as "buddhism". thats a label people came up with later on.

                    what shakyamuni buddha needed for awakening was not the whole package of buddhism, just a simple practice of seated meditation. all the rest followed.

                    As for seperating T'ai Chi and Gong Fu... well... if I tried to do some of the moves they teach as Gong Fu, not T'ai Chi, I'd dislocate a whole load of my joints.
                    i think maestro's point is that taijiquan is a form of gongfu, as gongfu does not only refer to hard external martial arts, and not even only to martial arts.

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                    • #25
                      how do u know sakiamuni awoke?

                      india is a place of illusions and false gurus

                      what is the problem in kashmir, is india non violent in this problem? not blaming just asking what is it to be awake 2 non violence

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                      • #26
                        I was kinda making the point that Shakyamuni wasn't a Buddhist.
                        The thing is that Buddhism has at its core, some very simple things, that we can easily put into practice without following Buddhism whatsoever. It's why some people follow it as a philosophical path, rather than a Religion.
                        And Gong Fu seems to lead us towards those simple ideals as well.
                        Act well towards others, train yourself to be better, develop awareness, and so on.

                        As for the Taiji / Gong Fu thing... I'm not very good at putting things into words I'm afraid.
                        I think Taiji comes under Gong Fu as well; there are many types of Gong Fu.
                        The problem is what catergories they've been shoved into in later years.
                        Gong Fu really encompasses a lot - soft, hard, inner, outer forms. It encompasses Qi Gong and Taiji, and the lines between them all blur.
                        So where do we put the lines?

                        Kinda confuses me really hehe.
                        Like I said, I'm not really good at putting things into words, so if there's confusion like that, it's difficult for me.

                        Djon Ma
                        Karma Dechen Djon Ma
                        "For as long as space endures, And as long as living beings remain, Until then may I too abide, To dispel the misery of the world."
                        Shantideva

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          its not just you djon, alot of people really believe taiji is taiji and gung fu is gung fu.

                          ive come across all kinds of taiji people who think they are good and have good teachers, but without the combat skills what do you really got? nothing imo.. if i can tool you in friendly pushhands what u think u got yknow?

                          anyway was just sayin, not just saying u or anything, i just thought it was funny, kinda been on my mind lately
                          "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

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                          • #28
                            Who needs combat skills?
                            Not everyone.
                            I can't do hard training stuff, I can't do what most people would think of as combat.
                            But my Dad's old T'ai Chi teacher told him a story once. He was attacked by a couple of people who wanted his wallet, anything expensive he had on him, etc.
                            He just touched one guy's jaw, a gentle touch. Broke it.
                            The other guy ran off.

                            I can't do the really physical hitting and things, my joints dislocate if I just move around, so that kind of stuff would wreck my body.
                            But I can do the soft stuff.
                            I don't need the hard combat things.

                            Djon Ma
                            Karma Dechen Djon Ma
                            "For as long as space endures, And as long as living beings remain, Until then may I too abide, To dispel the misery of the world."
                            Shantideva

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              You can practice the very basics of some areas of Buddhism without knowing anything about Buddhism, or that Buddhism exists.
                              how? why is it buddhism we're practicing?

                              How else did Shakyamuni Buddha become enlightened?
                              i can't say he did.

                              You realise that your physical practice is leading to greater mental awareness, and you reach a certain level mentally. It's good.
                              so.. reaching a greater mental level, which is good, is actually practicing an area of 'buddhism?'
                              ZhongwenMovies.com

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                              • #30
                                Djonma = pwnage

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