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Thread: Mao had some right views (Maoism)

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    1,102
    You are mistaken. It is an illusion that we are somehow separate from these "external" forces. Kharma comes back to bite you in the ass and it is a matter of your involvement in the world as a result.

    It is the ego that drives us to look away from ourselves when accounting for our life. The dichotomy between internal and external is nothing more than a synthetic categorization.

    And yes, I am denying Marxism, psychoanalysis and sociology. These are bodies of facts, accumulated by very, very imperfect beings, laced with defensive linear reasoning that are meant to inform a public that cares not to inform themselves. That is, entirely, the problem with this rationale you are presenting.

    You are appealing to authoritative bodies in order for reality to be acknowleged for you (in much the same way that you seek confirmation of your thoughts and opinions on this forum). As long as you do that, you will always be in a state of suffering because you deny that the only one that can change or end your suffering is you.

    I sympathize with those in physical suffering, and assist and aid where I can. But to pretend that anyone other than themselves can end their suffering is, in my opinion, harmful.

    As far as the sutra you posted below; I think that it completely coinsides with my arguement. I don't see how it says anything other than that your problems are your own and a result of your own being. Whether from this lifetime or another, the bad things that come to you are the result of your own actions. And in the cases where you (ironically) provided numbers and explanations, it is the most obvious. You get sick because you don't take care of yourself. Is your own bile someone else's affliction on you?

    Here are some questions for you.

    If you are somehow able to end a person's suffering through social interaction and political movement, why don't you petition to end the occupation of Tibet?

    Also, why is China becoming a capitalist society?

    Do you feel that Marxism has produced, in practice, social equality where it is implemented? If so, where?

    I'm not going to demand you answer the questions but I would like to note that I am very aware that you are dodging them.

  2. #32
    Dear friend,

    I agree that we are not separated of external forces. And that is one point of marxism, sociology and psychonalysis, so shouldnt u agree with that?

    But i disagree, in my limited understanding, with some views on tantras, that would put an identity between internal and external. U can be in relation with something, without being that thing. So i guess i think there is a dichotomy between internal and external. U r not me.

    Well, u deny marxism, sociology, psychoanalysis, u r pretty hardcore. R u an anti modernist?

    In sociology how can u deny figures that proves that school results are linked with the socio economical wealth of families. I think this is an objective example of determination by economical factors.

    Do u think u can end physical suffering by yourself? My brother died of AIDS and without morphin how could he deal with the pain? I know u grew up in the land of freedom, but dont u think there r limits to freedom and the power of the individual?

    As for the sutta, what the text denies is that everything happens because of ur past actions/karma. The sutta talks about seasons. Do u think seasons depend on ur past actions?

    As for ur question if Marxism has implemented social equality, just to take the example of France, marxist political action has certainly helped reduced poverty of the workers and made better their work conditions since XIXth century. Paid holydays, limitation of hours worked, social security are a few things marxism helped produce. It might not be the only cause, but to deny it as a cause would be a denial of reality. And as i ve mentioned before, in 1981 many companies were nationalized with sucess.

    In any case i m not saying marx is absolutly true, but i think some of his analysis, such as the theory of alienation or the determination of history by economy, are valid and that in practice marxism has helped changed for better the workers' conditions.

    I know ur country has been under severe propaganda against communism but u should not take propaganda's private interest for reality.

    What do u deny in marxism or psychoanalysis?


    Peace and love
    Namo Guan Yin Pusa / Dont create suffering / Dont harm animals!

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