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Thread: Mao had some right views (Maoism)

  1. #21
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    where's the cutoff?

  2. #22
    to sai marxism doesnt work is a lie and propaganda that McCarthi would have approved

    of course USSR, Eastern europe and so on, didnt work politicalli, i m not defending this

    but marxism did improve the life of workers in Europe trough political and trade union struggle, so it did work and Marx as a philosopher certainli had more impact than Nietzsche

    Marxism has also been working in philosophical and sociological fields. our understanding of realiti, histori, freedom, socio economic determination, urbanism, psichologi have been influenced bi Marx and Engels, and thei have served the truth. sociologi is one of the best example

    for instance when Doc sais that France has a big problem because of muslim iouth he is apparentli disconsidering marxism. riots, insecuriti also happens in the US where there are no muslims, so the problem should rather be considered as a socio economic one. of course religion and culture can be a factor but to ignore the socio economical ones is just a lie and plaing the game of fear and hate towards muslims

    as far as inequaliti is concerned, i mean we are talking about deep suffering, 5 million children diing, children prostitution, children work, suicides, depressions
    if u think the law of capitalism r fair and the problem comes from some other source, zen work on this problein mi opinion, onli compassion should be rewarded, not which countri u r born or how good at school u were. sociologi proves that school results r veri dependant on the socio economic background of the famili, so rich people will create rich people and poor famili will have poor children

    i feel that compassion being not rewarded obscures the law of karma

    as for Mao, i m not defending the gui, but again if u ve an emptiness view, how do u think he could love the capitalists when thei were putting Napalm in the countri next door and Pinochet attacking freedom in Chile? so he had to think capitalists r counter revolutionaries and have to be reeducated

    it takes someone focused on non violence like Gandhi not to fall into destruction, but what would Gandhi have been if he was born chinese? and who knows if he wouldnt have failed later on...

    "Economic equaliti is the kei to non violent independance" Gandhi
    Namo Guan Yin Pusa / Dont create suffering / Dont harm animals!

  3. #23
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    That postis full of loded statements.

    Oh, and marxim dosen't work.

    Also, who said mao had to love capitalists? You don't have to love anyone- the choice is up to you.

    As far as economic equalty; what is your solution for the situation of the Tibetans?

    why is Maoist China becoming Capitalistic?

    Also, explain what you mean when you say "emptiness", beause if it is supposed to mean what I think it does then it is completely irrelevant.

    As usual, lots ofaesthetic idea and very little in terms of actual solutions. Liu are you understanding what it is that people are telling you? You repeatedly underestimate the cogniive abilities of your readers and yet continue to dumbfound me with how little you know.

  4. #24
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    but marxism did improve the life of workers in Europe trough political and trade union struggle, so it did work and Marx as a philosopher certainli had more impact than Nietzsche

    Marxism has also been working in philosophical and sociological fields. our understanding of realiti, histori, freedom, socio economic determination, urbanism, psichologi have been influenced bi Marx and Engels, and thei have served the truth. sociologi is one of the best example
    If only capitalist countries had trade unions and sociology. Wait...

    as for Mao, i m not defending the gui, but again if u ve an emptiness view, how do u think he could love the capitalists when thei were putting Napalm in the countri next door and Pinochet attacking freedom in Chile? so he had to think capitalists r counter revolutionaries and have to be reeducated
    It's sort of hard to re-educate a corpse.

  5. #25
    Z, r u talking about the corpses of Nixon or the corpses of Kissinger? Hard to teach a chilean or a vietnamese how freedom works. But i guess Nixon and Kissinger r not as bad... Saying so would put a lot of bad karma to voters. Though i thought one crime was enough to send u to jail... Maybe the west has double standards?

    Dogchow, i try to talk about emptiness in the buddhist way, ie to be empty of independant existence or to be dependant on causes and conditions. I think this view limits in a way the so called freedom of choice. Could Mao be different giving the conditions where he lived? What would Gandhi do if he was born a chinese?

    As for practical solutions, u can try nationalizations. France did it in 1981 and the companies that became public had good results. It gives more power to workers and less inequalities of salaries. But of course Marxism doesnt work...


    Om mani pedme hung
    Namo Guan Yin Pusa / Dont create suffering / Dont harm animals!

  6. #26
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    You're an idiot.

  7. #27
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    Because I've already told you why and you can only respond by sticking your fingers in your ears and carrying on about Nixon and France.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by liutangsanzang View Post
    Dogchow, i try to talk about emptiness in the buddhist way, ie to be empty of independant existence or to be dependant on causes and conditions. I think this view limits in a way the so called freedom of choice. Could Mao be different giving the conditions where he lived? What would Gandhi do if he was born a chinese?
    Ok, so the Idea is to understand the cause-and effect nature of life? Why, then , stop at money and nationality? When you analyse a shitty condition that you are suddenly in, the deeper you dig into why you are in that situation, the closer you come to realizing that it s a result of your own Kharma. This is a very ubiquitous buddhist idea; i don't understand why you point to money and the likes as the source of suffering when you seem to know so much other stuff about the buddhist perspective.

    And if Ghandi were born a Chinese he would more than likely teach his fellow Chinese to look into themselves as the cause of their suffering and not to point fingers at fellow human beings (in cae it is not obvious, I feel that you are pointing fingers).

  9. #29
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    By the way...would you, like...mind answering the other questions?

  10. #30
    Dogchow, i think ur understanding of karma in general and in a buddhist perspective is partial. What happens to us is not only the result of our actions but also of exterior forces. So to say u r the cause of ur suffering is again a way of asserting freedom, responsability, an independant self, an atman.

    U write: "And if Ghandi were born a Chinese he would more than likely teach his fellow Chinese to look into themselves as the cause of their suffering and not to point fingers at fellow human beings (in cae it is not obvious, I feel that you are pointing fingers). "

    Though i agree that we have to see ourselves as a cause of our own suffering to say there are no external forces is again denying marxism, psychoanalysis or sociology. With what are called the philosophers of suspicions like Freud and Nietzche, some think that I is not anymore the master in the house. Psychologically there can be sufferings u can hardly control, for instance because they are unconscious.

    So yes i do point fingers. If u were tortured by the chilean army would u say u r the cause of ur suffering?

    Om mani pedme hung

    For a reference to external causes influencing our life and not only our karma being the cause of our suffering, see Sivaka sutta


    SN 36.21
    Sivaka Sutta
    To Sivaka

    Translated from the Pali by
    Thanissaro Bhikkhu



    PTS: S iv 230
    CDB ii 1278

    Source: Transcribed from a file provided by the translator.

    Copyright © 2005 Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
    Access to Insight edition © 2005
    For free distribution. This work may be republished, reformatted, reprinted, and redistributed in any medium. It is the author's wish, however, that any such republication and redistribution be made available to the public on a free and unrestricted basis and that translations and other derivative works be clearly marked as such.


    On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling near Rajagaha in the Bamboo Grove Monastery, the Squirrel's Feeding Place. There Moliyasivaka the wanderer went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, exchanged courteous greetings with him. After an exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, he sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to the Blessed One, "Master Gotama, there are some priests & contemplatives who are of this doctrine, this view: Whatever an individual feels — pleasure, pain, neither-pleasure-nor-pain — is entirely caused by what was done before. Now what does Master Gotama say to that?"

    [The Buddha:] "There are cases where some feelings arise based on bile.1 You yourself should know how some feelings arise based on bile. Even the world is agreed on how some feelings arise based on bile. So any priests & contemplatives who are of the doctrine & view that whatever an individual feels — pleasure, pain, neither-pleasure-nor-pain — is entirely caused by what was done before — slip past what they themselves know, slip past what is agreed on by the world. Therefore I say that those priests & contemplatives are wrong."

    "There are cases where some feelings arise based on phlegm... based on internal winds... based on a combination of bodily humors... from the change of the seasons... from uneven2 care of the body... from harsh treatment... from the result of kamma. You yourself should know how some feelings arise from the result of kamma. Even the world is agreed on how some feelings arise from the result of kamma. So any priests & contemplatives who are of the doctrine & view that whatever an individual feels — pleasure, pain, neither pleasure-nor-pain — is entirely caused by what was done before — slip past what they themselves know, slip past what is agreed on by the world. Therefore I say that those priests & contemplatives are wrong."

    When this was said, Moliyasivaka the wanderer said to the Blessed One: "Magnificent, lord! Magnificent! Just as if he were to place upright what was overturned, to reveal what was hidden, to point out the way to one who was lost, or to carry a lamp into the dark so that those with eyes could see forms, in the same way has the Blessed One — through many lines of reasoning — made the Dhamma clear. I go to the Blessed One for refuge, to the Dhamma, & to the community of monks. May the Blessed One remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge from this day forward, for life."

    Bile, phlegm, wind, a combination,Season, uneven, harsh treatment,and through the result of kamma as the eighth.3

    Notes
    1. I.e., diseases and pains that come from a malfunction of the gall bladder.
    2. "Out-of-tune."
    3. This concluding verse seems to have been added by the compilers of the Canon as a mnemonic device.
    Last edited by liutangsanzang; 09-20-2008 at 07:38 AM.
    Namo Guan Yin Pusa / Dont create suffering / Dont harm animals!

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