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Thread: Tong Bei Chuan revisited

  1. #1
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    Tong Bei Chuan revisited

    this dont look like tongbei, maybe im wrong

    what form is this
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXNByYRPmbk&feature=related"]YouTube - Tong Bei Quan[/ame]
    "did you ask me to consider dick with you??" blooming tianshi lotus

  2. #2
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    it is shaolin datongbiquan. there is both xiaotongbi and datongbi.

  3. #3
    It's Tong Bei, albeit with a few added hand moves that I didn't learn and haven't seen (in Tong Bei) before.

    Not to mean that this is wrong; you get these changes when people either learn it differently from their masters, or, decide to add (or subtract) stuff to fit their own personal desires or beliefs, or, people (like me) just get far too confused when running through these things. (There was a time, back when I had finished kempo, was training in Seidokan and Shaolin, that I "knew" around sixty or seventy forms. I used to confuse the hell out of things sometimes..... Talk about getting lost.)
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  4. #4
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

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  5. #5
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    doc,

    i wouldnt try to assume there is one "original" way to do a form, then all other versions have added or subtracted moves.

    although additions and subtractions happen, different lineage lines have always done the forms differently. even within shaolin temple, there is a different tongbi style in each courtyard.

    master deyang is from southern courtyard, who's family leader is grandmaster suxi. their southern courtyard tongbi style is unique to their family. while groups from other courtyards have separately distinct styles.

    so you cant just look to one as the standard and then consider all else to be additions and subtractions of that one way to do it.

    anyhow, this particular version of the form shaolin datongbiquan is for the most part the way master deyang teaches it, but slightly altered because this is a "video version". the legit student version is not much different.

  6. #6
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    in the video it says (大通臂拳) datongbiquan. but they do look like a close match.

  7. #7
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    datongbiquan is exactly the form most people refer to as "tongbei", the same as what doc linked to, because the xiaotongbiquan is not as widely known, but there is a xiao and da set.

    also, the character 臂 is pronounced "bi" and means arm. sometimes it can be pronounced "bei", but that leads to confusion with many other chinese "tongbei" styles that are not related to this shaolin tongbi.

  8. #8
    Yes, I'm aware of the courtyards. I kind of referred to that when I mentioned that different older masters taught things "their own way".

    Decheng's version largely inhabits this site, as does the wushu guan performance team (similar, if not the same for traditional stuff). Decheng learned his from Su Yuan; DeYang, from SuXi.
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  9. #9
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    ok so this is interesting. what you guys are saying is basically what hes doing is his version of tong bi which means through the arm but it shouldnt be confused with other styles of chinese martial arts of tong bi or tong bei that are associated with through the arm or through the back or white ape through the back etc type of deal?

    i agree that even if there ever was an original begining to any style who cares because styles are always being changed, and rightly so.

    but what im interested in is tong bei chuan, and what exactly is the core of this style. is tong bi that is being shown here by de yang supposed to be representing the tong bei style in shaolin form or what.

    because the footwork looks like typical shaolin footwork and the hand patterns look very similar to what alot of monks do. ive compared this demo to other chinese martial arts reping tong bei chuan and it looks very different, the tong bei guys outside the temples influence look to do it with more of a soft whipping power with alot of broad stepping and long range hand techs.

    but these just ideas, really this style been somewhat of a mystery to me im just interested what u guys really know..sorry if this post confusing
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  10. #10
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    keep in mind this is from a line of instructional videos, this is the video version. the actual way he teaches the form, the legit student version, is not much different though.

    correct, it should not be confused with other chinese tongbi/bei styles. some actually use the character 背 "bei" which means back, and not 臂 "bi" which means arm. so it is important to distinguish tongbei and tongbi.

    there are various tongbi/bei styles that are based on this shaolin style but have spread through different provinces in china and have taken on the characteristics of the local styles in those areas, making them quite different. there is also daoist tongbei which should not be confused with this either.

    this form master deyang is showing on the video is shaolin datongbiquan (widely known as tongbi/beiquan, or just tongbi/bei). it should be noted however that this is the "da" set. there is also "xiao" tongbi, which is a set of three, as well as "nanyuan" (southern courtyard) datongbiquan, which is in master deyang's lineage.

    however, since datongbiquan is usually the only one known and practiced, especially overseas, it is usually just called tongbi/bei because most people dont know there is a "xiao" set.

    this particular style is based on yuan dynasty xiaohongquan, the unrelated qing dynasty dahongquan, and houquan (monkey boxing). the first move in each of the xiaotongbiquan sets use monkey claw, and there are a few "shading the eyes" with the palm as seen in monkey boxing, but generally it is a non-imitative style using only the principles of monkey boxing. so it doesnt visibly appear to be an imitative animal style.

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