Hey man,
As one of the few true 'Mr Experienced' I know, this one's for you.
I have a friend, one of my very best friends, who has this girl. In a couple of months he's preparing to move to Israel to study for a few years to follow this girl who's doing the same. He's nuts about her. Really nuts. Which is fine, if that's what he wants. The only problem is that a few people have told me that she likes him alot, but doesn't feel the same way and just doesn't have the heart to tell him so and hurt him. I've seen him pretty down when he thinks she's pushing him off, so I can just imagine his reaction to her ending it. Anyway, my problem is that if she's not that interested she shouldn't be letting him follow her round the world and messing up his career, life routine, whatever you want to call it. Cos if she does break up in Israel, it will mess him up for a couple of years trying to settle down again. And imo that's the last thing he needs right now.
So what do you think. Do I stick my oar in and try to make her tell him she's not that interested if that's really what she feels [if not then it's all cool], or do I stay out of this one? I don't wanna see him waste his time for the next couple of years for nothing...
bleh, I think he's waay to obsessed with this girl anyway, he never has a second to himself...meh, I dunno....can't meddle too much....
thanks Docta
Now there's a question from hell. Especially after a night of dealing with completely irrational women in church. Have I got a headache. It's all Steve's fault....
OK, lots of issues here. And, lots of questions. As is always the case in these situations, there are far too many unknowns for comfort.
We've got a situation where one individual has deeper feelings than the other. When complicated by an upcoming forced separation, these things just don't always work out well. They're difficult to deal with, and difficult to figure out what to do. But, before we get into it some more, let's complicate the issue even more.
We really don't know what her true feelings are about him. It's your impression, and your friend's impressions, that she does not care for her boyfriend all that much. But, is it really that clear, that she doesn't care about him? Is it always easy to figure out what a woman really wants or desires? (Ha!) It is quite possible that she is just hiding her real feelings when around his friends, and that she really does love him, though, from my experience, hiding feelings is not common behavior with women. Usually, a friend's impression of a relationship can be fairly accurate, for friends are external to the emotions of the relationship, and see it in more rational terms. Let's assume, for argument's sake, that your impressions are correct, and she's looking forward to going to Israel without him.
We also really don't know, what would happen if he did follow her to Israel. It's quite possible that his following her would demonstrate a love and devotion that she didn't expect, a demonstration that actually might cause her to strengthen her feelings for him. Also, being alone in a foreign land, might cause her some consternation, which could cause the two to actually get closer together. Then again, the new environment, with new and interesting men, might cause her to want to "explore" a bit, activity which would just rip your friend's guts out. It's just too hard to tell, what the future will bring for her. And for him.
The whole idea of him uprooting his education and career, to travel to Israel, also has positive and negative connotations. The move might actually be good for him, it might open up some doors in his career that he might not realize at home, and the travel to a foreign land would most definitely be a worthwhile educational experience in and of itself. But, it could be a very painful one, especially if he's watching his beloved whore herself in this newfound land of fresh masculine meat. I've been there before, and it's not a pleasant experience. So, again, good and bad things can happen with this move.
One could counter with the whole idea that he shouldn't be selfish and throw away a possibly fantastic love relationship with his girlfriend, just so that he could continue with his career. I could counter that with the concept that she's only one woman. There are over two billion of them on this planet, why get hung up or ruin one's career plans because of one? Again, two ways of looking at the same problem.
Well, when you're in a situation where there are too many variables to really make a decision, the best thing to do, is to get more information. And the only way to do this, in this situation, is for your friend to sit her down and have a real discussion. One in which final decisions need to be made. It's not fair to her for him to accompany her to Israel, when she might not want him to go (she actually might be partially leaving to get away from him). It's not fair to him to travel across the world to a strange land, and uproot his life and plans, for a woman. Or, for a woman who may or may not love him). They have to talk. He has to be strong, and basically let her know how he feels about her, with the understanding of course, that she has to reveal the same. They have to make this decision of his, of whether or not to go with her, a mutual one. She has just as much input into it as he does. And she has to be strong, by being honest in her discussion. If there's any sense of hesitancy, or any question of her feelings, he's got to let her go. Women are great, I truly do love them. But, they're more hampered by emotions (and hormones) than we men are sometimes. Unless there's a strong feeling present, with strong evidence of a desired continued devotion, then the hell with her. Let her go. There are two billion of them out there, he's bound to find another. And no doubt, a better one at that. He'll look back at this as a learning experience. If he goes, and finds out that he left for nothing, it will be far more than a learning experience. It could end up being a nightmare.
Personally, I never follow a woman anywhere. My life is my life. I've yet to meet one woman that was worth disrupting my career path, education, or plans. And had I changed my career path for a woman, I most definitely would not be in the place I am today. Now I've had some pretty serious relationships in the past, all of which never really amounted to anything long term, and, that, is a bit unfortunate. But, it is telling also. It tells me that none of those relationships were worth altering my life for. One day I might meet someone that will change my life, though, at this stage, I kind of doubt it. I think that it's unfortunate that these events and decisions have to be made, but, in a way, they are also very telling. It's obvious that this is causing your friend a lot of pain and grief, but, in a way, that very pain and grief is giving him the answer to his question. Relationships should not be work. They should not be hard. They should not cause pain and grief. If they do, get rid of them. Relationships should be enlightening, educational, fun, comfortable, enjoyable. They should not be "work". This one, obviously is not the former.
As to what to do, ie, should his friends talk to him and tell him, well, most definitely yes. That's what friends are for. When I look back on my life, I still have some of the friends I had in grammar school. But then again, I'm just that kind of guy; New Yorkers tend to have friends for life I can't say the same thing about my ex girlfriends. They're in someone else's bed. Or some football team's bed. They move on; friends don't. My point is, in two years, you're probably still going to be friends with this guy; she's going to be married to some moron who will cheat on her and divorce her in a few years. (Oh, the choices that women make, now that's another discussion). It all boils down to needs. But, this is another discussion.
You need to sit down with him and basically tell him that you're not sure he's doing the right thing. You need to strongly advise him that he should have a real heart to heart with his girlfriend, and try to ascertain what it is that she really wants. And if he doesn't do this, then I think you have the right to advise him that, in your opinion, from your observations, you don't think that she has the same feelings for him that he has for her, and that you think he's making a terrible mistake. Now, if he's really obsessed, he might tell you to go to hell, and go to Israel with her. Well, we all make choices in life, and we all have to live with them. He'll make his, and he'll learn from it. And one day, you might be friends again. Then, you might not. But, no loss. We all move on. And we all have to move on living with the decisions that we all individually make.
My decision in this case, is to try to educate him. Education is the key when the situation is murky. Explore, question, research. Make him do the same. That's what relationships are all about, whether they be of a friendly nature, or of a serious deep love relationship. It's all about mutual education. Help your friend or your partner learn. If he does, he might come to a different conclusion regarding this situation, and make the appropriate choice. Then again, he might not. But at least, you did what you should have done for your friend. He is, after all, your friend.
As one of the few true 'Mr Experienced' I know, this one's for you.
I have a friend, one of my very best friends, who has this girl. In a couple of months he's preparing to move to Israel to study for a few years to follow this girl who's doing the same. He's nuts about her. Really nuts. Which is fine, if that's what he wants. The only problem is that a few people have told me that she likes him alot, but doesn't feel the same way and just doesn't have the heart to tell him so and hurt him. I've seen him pretty down when he thinks she's pushing him off, so I can just imagine his reaction to her ending it. Anyway, my problem is that if she's not that interested she shouldn't be letting him follow her round the world and messing up his career, life routine, whatever you want to call it. Cos if she does break up in Israel, it will mess him up for a couple of years trying to settle down again. And imo that's the last thing he needs right now.
So what do you think. Do I stick my oar in and try to make her tell him she's not that interested if that's really what she feels [if not then it's all cool], or do I stay out of this one? I don't wanna see him waste his time for the next couple of years for nothing...
bleh, I think he's waay to obsessed with this girl anyway, he never has a second to himself...meh, I dunno....can't meddle too much....
thanks Docta
Now there's a question from hell. Especially after a night of dealing with completely irrational women in church. Have I got a headache. It's all Steve's fault....
OK, lots of issues here. And, lots of questions. As is always the case in these situations, there are far too many unknowns for comfort.
We've got a situation where one individual has deeper feelings than the other. When complicated by an upcoming forced separation, these things just don't always work out well. They're difficult to deal with, and difficult to figure out what to do. But, before we get into it some more, let's complicate the issue even more.
We really don't know what her true feelings are about him. It's your impression, and your friend's impressions, that she does not care for her boyfriend all that much. But, is it really that clear, that she doesn't care about him? Is it always easy to figure out what a woman really wants or desires? (Ha!) It is quite possible that she is just hiding her real feelings when around his friends, and that she really does love him, though, from my experience, hiding feelings is not common behavior with women. Usually, a friend's impression of a relationship can be fairly accurate, for friends are external to the emotions of the relationship, and see it in more rational terms. Let's assume, for argument's sake, that your impressions are correct, and she's looking forward to going to Israel without him.
We also really don't know, what would happen if he did follow her to Israel. It's quite possible that his following her would demonstrate a love and devotion that she didn't expect, a demonstration that actually might cause her to strengthen her feelings for him. Also, being alone in a foreign land, might cause her some consternation, which could cause the two to actually get closer together. Then again, the new environment, with new and interesting men, might cause her to want to "explore" a bit, activity which would just rip your friend's guts out. It's just too hard to tell, what the future will bring for her. And for him.
The whole idea of him uprooting his education and career, to travel to Israel, also has positive and negative connotations. The move might actually be good for him, it might open up some doors in his career that he might not realize at home, and the travel to a foreign land would most definitely be a worthwhile educational experience in and of itself. But, it could be a very painful one, especially if he's watching his beloved whore herself in this newfound land of fresh masculine meat. I've been there before, and it's not a pleasant experience. So, again, good and bad things can happen with this move.
One could counter with the whole idea that he shouldn't be selfish and throw away a possibly fantastic love relationship with his girlfriend, just so that he could continue with his career. I could counter that with the concept that she's only one woman. There are over two billion of them on this planet, why get hung up or ruin one's career plans because of one? Again, two ways of looking at the same problem.
Well, when you're in a situation where there are too many variables to really make a decision, the best thing to do, is to get more information. And the only way to do this, in this situation, is for your friend to sit her down and have a real discussion. One in which final decisions need to be made. It's not fair to her for him to accompany her to Israel, when she might not want him to go (she actually might be partially leaving to get away from him). It's not fair to him to travel across the world to a strange land, and uproot his life and plans, for a woman. Or, for a woman who may or may not love him). They have to talk. He has to be strong, and basically let her know how he feels about her, with the understanding of course, that she has to reveal the same. They have to make this decision of his, of whether or not to go with her, a mutual one. She has just as much input into it as he does. And she has to be strong, by being honest in her discussion. If there's any sense of hesitancy, or any question of her feelings, he's got to let her go. Women are great, I truly do love them. But, they're more hampered by emotions (and hormones) than we men are sometimes. Unless there's a strong feeling present, with strong evidence of a desired continued devotion, then the hell with her. Let her go. There are two billion of them out there, he's bound to find another. And no doubt, a better one at that. He'll look back at this as a learning experience. If he goes, and finds out that he left for nothing, it will be far more than a learning experience. It could end up being a nightmare.
Personally, I never follow a woman anywhere. My life is my life. I've yet to meet one woman that was worth disrupting my career path, education, or plans. And had I changed my career path for a woman, I most definitely would not be in the place I am today. Now I've had some pretty serious relationships in the past, all of which never really amounted to anything long term, and, that, is a bit unfortunate. But, it is telling also. It tells me that none of those relationships were worth altering my life for. One day I might meet someone that will change my life, though, at this stage, I kind of doubt it. I think that it's unfortunate that these events and decisions have to be made, but, in a way, they are also very telling. It's obvious that this is causing your friend a lot of pain and grief, but, in a way, that very pain and grief is giving him the answer to his question. Relationships should not be work. They should not be hard. They should not cause pain and grief. If they do, get rid of them. Relationships should be enlightening, educational, fun, comfortable, enjoyable. They should not be "work". This one, obviously is not the former.
As to what to do, ie, should his friends talk to him and tell him, well, most definitely yes. That's what friends are for. When I look back on my life, I still have some of the friends I had in grammar school. But then again, I'm just that kind of guy; New Yorkers tend to have friends for life I can't say the same thing about my ex girlfriends. They're in someone else's bed. Or some football team's bed. They move on; friends don't. My point is, in two years, you're probably still going to be friends with this guy; she's going to be married to some moron who will cheat on her and divorce her in a few years. (Oh, the choices that women make, now that's another discussion). It all boils down to needs. But, this is another discussion.
You need to sit down with him and basically tell him that you're not sure he's doing the right thing. You need to strongly advise him that he should have a real heart to heart with his girlfriend, and try to ascertain what it is that she really wants. And if he doesn't do this, then I think you have the right to advise him that, in your opinion, from your observations, you don't think that she has the same feelings for him that he has for her, and that you think he's making a terrible mistake. Now, if he's really obsessed, he might tell you to go to hell, and go to Israel with her. Well, we all make choices in life, and we all have to live with them. He'll make his, and he'll learn from it. And one day, you might be friends again. Then, you might not. But, no loss. We all move on. And we all have to move on living with the decisions that we all individually make.
My decision in this case, is to try to educate him. Education is the key when the situation is murky. Explore, question, research. Make him do the same. That's what relationships are all about, whether they be of a friendly nature, or of a serious deep love relationship. It's all about mutual education. Help your friend or your partner learn. If he does, he might come to a different conclusion regarding this situation, and make the appropriate choice. Then again, he might not. But at least, you did what you should have done for your friend. He is, after all, your friend.
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