Stupid comments....

[doc]

SINGAPORE, July 8 — Fifty grueling hours into an unprecedented operation to separate adult twins conjoined at the head, Dr. Keith Goh’s heart sank. He was working furiously Tuesday to save Laleh Bijani, who began bleeding profusely the moment surgeons made the final cut to separate her from her sister, Ladan.

Unfortunately, both girls died. It most likely was a horrid experience for all involved.

But the commentary from this Dr Keith Goh, lead neurosurgeon on the case, is bizarre, IMO.

“I was very saddened,” said Goh, the lead surgeon. “I saw them struggling - of course at the same time we were struggling, too.”

“At least we helped them achieve their dream of being separated,” Goh said

Goh said he had tried to talk the twins out of it but couldn’t.

Having been around far too many neurosurgeons in my career, this is just disgusting.

[dave]

may they rest in peace saddened me to hear that news, especially as it was given a fair amount of coverage here in the uk.

it does sound a little strange - but what do you mean doc?

dave

[doc]

Read this neurosurgeon's comments again. Doesn't anything about them strike you???? Maybe I've been in the medical field too long.

[dave]

oops i read too quickly before!

dave

[doc]

How stories change....

From MSNBC:
Surgeons who operated on the twins in Singapore had tried to convince them not to go through with the marathon surgery to separate their fused heads, but the women insisted, a U.S. doctor from the team said in an interview broadcast on Friday.
Dr. Ben Carson said he never thought the operation had a reasonable chance of success. And he said members of the surgical team that operated on the women made “a great deal of effort” to try to talk them out of it beforehand.
Ladan and Laleh died on Tuesday, 90 minutes apart, from a severe loss of blood as doctors were in the final stages of the marathon operation to separate them in Singapore.
“They absolutely could not be dissuaded,” Carson, director of pediatric neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins University Hospital in Baltimore, said in a television interview.

How many times have we seen this before? Before the shit hits the fan, comes the backpedaling...

[dave]

hey - you edited your post

dave

[Jay]

One of the twins

I read an article stating that one of the twins did not want to go through with the op. She was too afraid of dying.


Jay

[Russ]

I have a question for you Doc

I have seen this type of thing happen before – patient undergoes an operation, then after an unfavorable result the doctor says that they tried to talk them out of it. What I always wondered is, if the Doctor thinks that it really won’t work, can’t they just say “I will not perform this operation”? Or is there some moral/ethical issue in which the Doctor, knowing he is competent, doesn’t want the patient to seek out some other, inferior surgeon to perform the operation?

I am sure that I am seeing this situation too simplistically - keep in mind I am just an electrician, so the National Electrical Code helps in keeping customers from doing things that are too crazy. But, I have had occasions where I have refused to do a project because I didn’t think it was safe, or smart.

[doc]

You're not looking at this too simplistically. You hit it right on the head.

Ego, desire for fame and wealth, acquisition of power, all, very deadly qualities.

But, then again, I'm just old, jaded and cynical..

[Russ]

Interesting

Well, I got stuck behind an accident today and my normal one hour commute ended up being three hours+.

During that time I thought about Doctors in general and Surgeons in particular. I have always known that there Doctors are human beings and subject to the same shortcomings as any human being (greed, lust for power, etc.). But for some odd reason I had always thought that surgeons were less prone to these shortcomings. I guess I always figured that someone who was willing to cut into people to save them (something I can’t even fathom being able to do) would be more into medical practice for helping people than for personal gain.

But as I thought today, I realized that Surgeons are just as susceptible to the aforementioned shortcomings as anyone else, and how these shortcomings could even be magnified due to their profession. I kept mentally referring to this thread as well as the piece on this site about “Identity” (which was excellent, after reading the piece last Friday I spent the past weekend thinking about how people – especially myself – respond when their identity becomes threatened) and how the Surgeon Jeff displayed traits that so many “normal” people have. Then I started thinking of how much power one must feel by opening someone up and removing a life threatening disease or repairing a life threatening injury. The God complex must flow fairly heavily amongst surgeons…not that they are “evil”, but that type of power cannot come without a price. I would think that this God complex would magnify the other negative traits almost exponentially as one sees themselves as the seeming Center of the Universe.


[I would like to interrupt this program for this special message…****!!! I got up to make tea and broke my favorite teapot. This is sure turning in to one shitty day. Sorry to have to bother you all with this, but it was very traumatic for me. We now return to our regularly scheduled rambling]


Now, don’t get me wrong, I still have a lot of respect for Doctors in general and Surgeons in particular. I just view them a little differently than before.

Thanks for helping stimulate thought…

[doc]

Some more food for thought.

Surgeons are doctors. IN the US there is no difference. Doctors can specialize into various specialties, the different sub specialities of surgery are just some of the many. And, the perception that surgeons do all the curing is nonsense. They do the technical aspects of an operation; but be aware, that there are many other specialists, some of whom are far more important, that contribute to a patient's care, of course, all depending upon the surgery.

Good pre op care (internal medicine, etc) can make a surgery go smoother, and the entire process more likely to show a good outcome. Good intra operative (anesthesia) care can mean the difference between life, death, and post operative medical complications. Good post operative care (intensivists, internists, pulmonologists, cardiologists, infectious disease, oncologists, etc) can mean the difference between success and failure. In the grand scheme of things, the surgeon, though playing an important part, does not play the significant one. Unless he's a complete screw up, and does a poor job technically. (Which, is an issue).

We have shortcomings. All of us. To varying degrees, irrespective of specialty.