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  • Hi Nur (as Wang calls you ), nice to meet you too! You're one of the stars in Si's Shaolin v. Wutang trailer... I'm sure you've seen it, it had Shi Niang in stiches. Si's clearly a young man with a few talents aside from gongfu up his sleeve!

    Heng Xuan falls about laughing whenever I attempt to say "Xuan", so I call him Wang most of the time too. Just to give you a heads up, if we can ever get him out of China again he's gonna come and visit! Needless to say you are always warmly welcome with us wherever we wind up. I will of course pass on your messages when I get back to Henan over the weekend.

    Flow, if you are in Chelmsford, then training with Heng Long might also be an option which would save you a treck accross North London. Heng Long / Lin Jiaolian lives and teaches in Walthamstow. If you are interested, let me know and I'll link you up with him. He's actually spoken to me about starting to teach up in Essex, so there could even be an opportunity to do some liaising for him getting some classes set up.

    He's one of Yan Zhang's senior coaches and Heng Xuan's martial gege (older brother). He is quite focused on the spiritual/cultural side of Shaolin. He has been a great friend to me, and has extensively helped me get to grips with some of the fundamentals of Shaolin, which have been necessary to relate to Heng Xuan.

    When we are in the UK Heng Xuan spends quite a bit of time in Epping as that is where I come from so we should meet up when we get back too. You could maybe watch Heng Xuan's natural teaching inclination manifesting on my nephews at Chelmsford Ice Rink one afternoon?

    Onesp1ng, I'm interested in your view on Shaolin and deceit. There appears to be very little politics going on in the school. It appears that deceit is not tolerated in Yan Zhang's school amongst the students, and when I read on some other school's websites about their moral conduct, it appears that many come down on it very heavy handedly.

    Heng Xuan seems quite incapable of anything other then the most simple deception (like sneaking out for a crafty smoke). He totally failed the visitors visa interview, by contradicting himself for example... I suspect he's had nowhere near the amount of deceit practice as we do on average in the West. So that is why I suspected that Shaolin doesn't tolerate it. Sorry if it appeared I was suggesting that there is no deceit in present day Shaolin. I've observed some very questional behaviour outside of Yan Zhang's school, but I suspect it was on account of outside (non Shaolin) influences.

    Nice speaking with you all!

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    • Hi,did you say that,Chicken?:
      "You could maybe watch Heng Xuan's natural teaching inclination manifesting on my nephews at Chelmsford Ice Rink one afternoon?"

      When and where?What are you talking about?I live next to here for now...so!

      Happy training
      The East? The West?

      Men and Women, that's all...

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      • its just that your profile suggests that you are based in Chelmsford, I presumed Chelmsford in the UK, which is just up the road from Epping, which is where we hang out a lot of the time.

        Heng Xuan is hyperactive & addicted to kids, and my sibs have a fair amount of hyperactive kids between them... we just throw them all in together and a couple of hours later, they are all functioning to some degree of normal and we can get some sense out of them. Ice skating works extremely well.

        HengXuan is back in Dengfeng (sitting right next to me now), and it looks like it is going to remain that way for sometime, as he's already been denied one UK visitor's visa application. We will work something out. Having read Doc's experiences with De Chang, well, I realise its probably not going to be as straight forward as I've been figuring.

        But seriously check out Heng Long in the meanwhile. He's just great!

        Flow, quick heads up, they aren't orange skinheads the whole time. You couldn't tell HengXuan from the next Chinese kid hanging out in a shopping center on any given day.

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        • I thought it was about opening a school in Chelmsford or something.Next year i'll be in London anyway.

          Thank you for replying
          Good luck
          The East? The West?

          Men and Women, that's all...

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          • Hi Chicken,
            So nice to have a link to "my man' Wang, now that you can speak on his behalf. We had some really funny moments together! Ask him about xiao nu-ren. he'll get a laugh!!

            What is Si's shaolin vs. Wutang? I have no idea what you are talking about. How could i see it? Wow, I had no idea Lin Jiaolian stayed in England. I lived in the room next to him at YanZhang's school. He is such a great time. We had a lot of fun together also. good for him. Please tell him i say hello also, and that i miss him too. he was the "top dog" as far as coaches, at yanZhang's school, and trained the "top" stuidents there. anyone who has the opportunity to train with him in england should do so. he is quite talented!

            here is my personal email, if you and Wang want to get a hold of me privately. (this is not for the public!) roknrolr@2die4.com

            all the best, Nur

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            • Yup, he's being real coy about the Xiao Nu-ren!

              Si's "Shaolin vs Wutang" is a very, very well edited Shaolin Badmen Production of the footage that Si shot of you all training in Dengfeng, its on CD so he should be able to get you a copy in the post. Its probably the best promotional device that Yan Zhang has. You see it and you just want to be there!

              I've sent you an email off-line Nur, its good to have you back in contact with him, he talks of you often, mostly about your many "attractive" nu-pengyou.

              Chicken

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              • My buddy and I are going to Deng Feng at the end of August, where we will look around for a good school. We want a school that isn't going to rip us off. We also preffer traditional shaolin. Shi Yanzhang's school sounds nice. I was wondering if there are any "hole in the wall" or small under the radar schools in Deng Feng. Just searching for a sincere and genuine teacher.

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                • Hi Shaolin Forever,

                  I believe that both Shi De Cheng's school, that Doc talks about extensively, and Shi Yan Zhang's school offer you precisely this type of small hole in the wall / under the radar type situation. There are some extremely, extremely large schools over here taking in thousands of students. So a school that accepts 200 or so is small by Dengfeng standards.

                  Neither of these schools are into ripping people off. They are genuinely trying to spread the love of Shaolin internationally. And have experience with International students.

                  There is a real family feel to Yan Zhang's school. International students form friendships that endure on past their Dengfeng experiences. Past students drop by all the time and are warmly welcomed. Graduates from other Dengfeng schools drop by, catch up with the coaches that come from their same home town as them and are warmly welcomed. Graduates from the same home town return back to their home towns and hang out together. The graduates who are outside the country remain in close contact and support each other.

                  I've seen all this with my own eyes. A lot is said about the lack of spiritual instruction at some of the institutions in Dengfeng, but I have found that if you stop judging them and just percieve what is going on around you, you can percieve that there is a degree of spirituality that exists past the individual level. A degree of spirituality that exists within the unit, and extends through its connections, I believe that this is an aspect of the Shaolin Spirt / Culture.

                  After all individuality is not a quality prized by the Chinese... even less so within the Tao and Buddhist faiths. I think that once you get past the "me, me, me" approach to everything and start to understand things going on around you (which believe me is quite difficult given the culture and language barriers) then well you can see a lot more spirituality going on, which I believe is Chan.

                  Chicken

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                  • Hey thanks for the info Chicken.
                    So how long did you stay at Shi Yan Zhang's school and when. Were you able to learn some traditional stuff instead of just modern wushu. And do you know if they have a website. I know one was talked of but I haven't found it.

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                    • There are a million hole in the wall schools in Deng Feng. Ican reccommend Yanzhang's school, because I've been there. It is very inexpensive to train there, they will treat you nice. I can not attest to other schools, simply because I did not train at them. look around, there are plenty to see.

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                      • I am staying at Yan Zhang's school, and have been here since mid May. I don't train gongfu though...

                        I'm just about to revise the website as its in Chinglish... but you can find it at www.chinesekungfu.net.cn. Don't judge the book by its cover, its just a very, very poor translation of the Chinese website. Looks more like a photo album of Yan Zhang's shaolin buddies, which is quite a normal way for the Chinese to present themselves.

                        Yan Zhang's school is a performing arts school aimed at preparing students for film and TV and other careers within martial arts. Films and TV need both traditional and modern gongfu... so I figure you will find that they do traditional and modern wushu. You turn up and tell them what you want to learn... they will work out a training programme around your requirements. If you want to learn anything specific I can ask them directly if they can teach it?

                        What is traditional and what is modern Wushu anyway? They don't talk about traditional and modern wushu over here. There again, I haven't heard Wang (Shi Heng Xuan) reply "No" to anyone who asks him if he knows a form of Wushu, and I can't imagine that people have only been asking him to teach them modern wushu. He's currently back teaching again at Yan Zhang's in ENGLISH by the way. I've just been photographing them teaching a tour group and its quite fun to see a bunch of international wriggly worms turn into fledgling snakes in the space of an hour or so. They are very effective teachers.

                        They have just built a new toilet (still a mabu toilet, but a tiled mabu toilet with flushing facility, and shower facility for the international students YIPPEE!!!). I haven't tried out the shower yet as we are currently up in the village for a couple of days, training a group of international students in and around Shaolin. Yan Zhang's sister has also just decorated and kitted out new rooms there, as we've had more international students turn up. I think she did a good job, the rooms are very pleasant.

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                        • Hey

                          Hello, let me introduce myself. I am going to China with ShaolinForever! and am very grateful for all the help we are recieveing.
                          Chicken, traditional shaolin is more rooted and better for practical combat than wushu, which has many ariels and is good for competitions. It would be awesome if you could ask the masters if they would teach traditional more than flashy modern wushu.

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                          • what is ShaolinForever! ? is there a website i can go to for it?

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                            • There again, I haven't heard Wang (Shi Heng Xuan) reply "No" to anyone who asks him if he knows a form of Wushu, and I can't imagine that people have only been asking him to teach them modern wushu.
                              Well, I've made this pretty clear a few times in the past. I've noticed on more occasions than I'd like to remember, the difference in "emphasis" placed on training the newer generation of "monks" as opposed to the training that the older monks (who actually grew up in the temple proper, under the old masters) received. The younger guys who are products of these schools, tend to get far more modern competitive type training than they do training in the older traditional forms. Traditional forms just don't do well in competitions, and the school's main emphasis seems to be on winning competitions.

                              So, be careful what kind of "traditional" stuff you learn from a Heng generation, or even a Xing generation, individual. I was amazed, after spending a lot of time with Xing Wei, who trained primarily with Decheng, knew. His emphasis was on more of a competition type wushu, and he was very good at it. He did learn some traditional, but as Decheng had told me, he really hadn't started to teach him all that he knew. (More of this story to come).

                              The face of Shaolin training has changed, quite a bit, over the last ten years. God knows where it will be ten years from now.
                              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                              "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                              (more comments in my User Profile)
                              russbo.com


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                              • dogchow108, ShaolinForever! is a friend i am going to China with. Sorry, he is not an organization with a website.
                                Doc, anothr veil is lifted with your advice. Are you saying it will be diffucult to find a teacher that will train us in traditional shaolin fighting in Deng Feng? Modern wushu is pretty and i guess i wouldnt mind learning it, but traditional shaolin is what i dream of.

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