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  • Question for Uwe

    Hallo Uwe...and others..

    I read the texts you wrote in the book section and I had a few questions

    * If You look at the picture of the sign at the turn of the century, and You take a look at the sign that is hanging there now, You can see that the signs are different. Are that the same signs or is the 'new' one a reconstruction of the original one ?

    * The story of LiShimin. Some story's say that Li Shimin was captured by Wang Renze (or was it Wang Shichong?) and that 13 monks saved him from prison. And some story's (like yours), say that the monks just helped him in the battle against Wang's army.

    * Xia Hong Xuan...some translate it as "Red" and other say's that Hong refer to a family name...

    btw i enjoyed reading your 'books'...good job !

    Dave

  • #2
    Re: Question for Uwe

    Dave,

    here are some answers. However, bear in mind that History is a tricky thing.


    * If You look at the picture of the sign at the turn of the century, and You take a look at the sign that is hanging there now, You can see that the signs are different. Are that the same signs or is the 'new' one a reconstruction of the original one ?

    The new one is a reconstruction to the best of my knowledge. The one in the picture was already touched up because the characters are slightly different. I hope I am wrong, but my guess is that the old one was just thrown out and a "new" one was created.


    * The story of LiShimin. Some story's say that Li Shimin was captured by Wang Renze (or was it Wang Shichong?) and that 13 monks saved him from prison. And some story's (like yours), say that the monks just helped him in the battle against Wang's army.

    It was Wang Renze. I saw that other story before too, but I went by what my teacher (Shi Wang Heng) told me.

    * Xia Hong Xuan...some translate it as "Red" and other say's that Hong refer to a family name...

    Refers to the Family name Hong.


    Thanks for the compliment on the book. There is more to come. I am just waiting for doc to get back and then I will start uploading more again as well as replacing all the lost pictures.


    Uwe

    Comment


    • #3
      Shao Hong Chuan is always mistakenly translated as "Little Red Boxing", when in fact, the character for Hong that is used in older texts, (and as shown to me by Shi De Cheng), refers to a family name, and not the character for the word red. I've mentioned this somewhere in the site, a long time ago, in a part of the site far, far away.

      Shao Hong Chuan and Da Hong Chuan are about a thousand years ago, originating from some Hong family fighting style.
      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

      "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

      (more comments in my User Profile)
      russbo.com


      Comment


      • #4
        Hey Uwe and Doc of course...

        I think there's a small mistake in your "Shaolin Collection 1". On page 20 (Yuan Dynastie) :

        Li Sou, too was very skilled at martial arts, especially the Da Hong and Xia Hong Quan ( great and Lesser Red Boxing )...

        Do You know if Li Sou really is a name...I read before that Li Sou means "old man" or something like that.

        Don't get me wrong, I really like your work....

        Greetings,

        dave

        Ps : btw have You already found something about Xuan Hua Than ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Dave,

          good question. here is the answer: Li Sou is a name but also the translation for old man.

          Details:
          There was great development of Shaolin boxing at the end of the Jin Dynasty and the beginning of the Yang Dynasty. A number of famous boxing (or martial arts) masters paid great attention to summing up the hand positions and imparting their skills to younger monks. Among these masters, Bai Yufeng, Jue Yuan, and Li Sou played important roles; Jue Yuan was a layman who took a fancy to Wushu. Later he became a monk at the Shaolin Temple, dedicating himself to the study of boxing positions and diligent practice. Soon the Shaolin Temple became widely known for its martial arts. Many admirers came to the Shaolin Temple to learn from him. But Jue Yuan was a man of self- knowledge. He politely refused them, and then started his search for other famous masters. In Lan Zhou (of Gan Su), he met an old man from Henan named Li Sou, who was skilled in the martial arts. In Luoyang, Li Sou introduced Jue Yang to Bai Yufeng. At this time Bai was about 50 years of age, but he still appeared majestic. Jue Yang respected Bai as his master and learned from him very modestly. Jue Yang was so dedicated and intent that Bai and Li Sou were both deeply moved. Together they returned to the Shaolin Temple, where they worked as one to develop Shaolin boxing.

          Li Sou was also very skilled at martial arts, especially at Xiao Hong, Da Hong, and cudgel stunts. His forms were frequently taught at the Shaolin Temple. Directly tutored by Bai Yufeng, Jue Yuan tried his best to combine his Shaolin style with that of his great master. Thus, they all made contributions to the survival and development of Shaolin Boxing. Today, the Five Imitations Boxings were considered the best of Shaolin Quan and the Da Hong and Xiao Hong Boxings are still very popular.






          In regards to Xuan Hua Than:

          The Mountain Gate, which is actually the temple's main gate, was erected in the thirteenth year of Emperor Yong Zheng (1735) during the Qing Dynasty. Above the gateway are the written characters, "Shaolin Temple", which were written by Master Xuan Hua from the Qing Dynasty. See my Shaolin Special Edition on the temple in the Section "Shaolin Si Shan Men - The entrance to the Shaolin Temple"



          Uwe
          Last edited by Uwe; 09-12-2003, 07:03 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hey Uwe,

            Thanks for the answer...but still one question...i read all of your special editions. But in your book, You write that the characters are written by emperor kang Xi. It didn't mention Xuan Hua Than...so there's a bit confusion for me . Or are the 2 names one person ?

            What I meant with a "small mistake" in your book "Shaolin Collection 1" was that the translation there of Da Hong and Xiao Hong Xuan is "great and Lesser Red Boxing". I taught Hong was refering to a family name...

            Just curious....are there new "books" coming?


            Bye,

            Dave

            Comment


            • #7
              Dave,

              here we go:

              Thanks for the answer...but still one question...i read all of your special editions. But in your book, You write that the characters are written by emperor kang Xi. It didn't mention Xuan Hua Than...so there's a bit confusion for me . Or are the 2 names one person ?

              The source for Emperor Kang Xi is Shi Wang Heng, the other version for Xuan Hua Than is from Guo Yin He. I am actually considering expanding the versions to include all these different aspects with their respective sources. The main headache is that while attempting to provide answers, these things actually raise more questions.


              What I meant with a "small mistake" in your book "Shaolin Collection 1" was that the translation there of Da Hong and Xiao Hong Xuan is "great and Lesser Red Boxing". I taught Hong was refering to a family name...

              I will look this up over the weekend some more. I am not sure off hand.

              Just curious....are there new "books" coming?

              Yes, I sent Doc number 3 so he had something to read while he was in China.

              Uwe

              Comment


              • #8
                Hey Uwe,

                Many thanks for answering the questions....I have some more but I will save them for another time...

                Looking forwards to read n°3

                dave

                Comment


                • #9
                  uwe, are you a student from the shaolin temple Austria? (because you said you talked to shi wang heng).
                  martial way is mine, death one is yours
                  call me last bodyguard of the lohan chuan, call me the one who will bring wu de to occident, call me, the one

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    No,

                    I am not a student of the Austrian Temple. I have however, spent a large number of years in Asia studying at the temple under Shi Wang Heng and the Da Mo Yuan.


                    I will eventually provide a bit more of a bio on me for everybody.

                    Uwe

                    PS: I wouldn't mind going back to Austria for a while.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by doc
                      Shao Hong Chuan is always mistakenly translated as "Little Red Boxing", when in fact, the character for Hong that is used in older texts, (and as shown to me by Shi De Cheng), refers to a family name, and not the character for the word red. I've mentioned this somewhere in the site, a long time ago, in a part of the site far, far away.

                      Shao Hong Chuan and Da Hong Chuan are about a thousand years ago, originating from some Hong family fighting style.
                      I think that character means Flood or wave in Chinese.

                      So it would mean the flooding fist form.

                      I heard that the forms, being that they are 1,000 years old, so younger than Lohan,
                      are from the Sun Tai Tzu long fist style and Shaolin received them as gifts from the Emperor.
                      Hong Quan forms are found in the villages all around Shaolin and nearby counties as well.
                      They are common Northern Long Fist forms and they are said to originate from the vast popularity that
                      Sun Tai Tzu Quan had when the Emperor was around. It is the root of many village long fist styles.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Uwe
                        Dave,

                        good question. here is the answer: Li Sou is a name but also the translation for old man.

                        Details:
                        There was great development of Shaolin boxing at the end of the Jin Dynasty and the beginning of the Yang Dynasty. A number of famous boxing (or martial arts) masters paid great attention to summing up the hand positions and imparting their skills to younger monks. Among these masters, Bai Yufeng, Jue Yuan, and Li Sou played important roles; Jue Yuan was a layman who took a fancy to Wushu. Later he became a monk at the Shaolin Temple, dedicating himself to the study of boxing positions and diligent practice. Soon the Shaolin Temple became widely known for its martial arts. Many admirers came to the Shaolin Temple to learn from him. But Jue Yuan was a man of self- knowledge. He politely refused them, and then started his search for other famous masters. In Lan Zhou (of Gan Su), he met an old man from Henan named Li Sou, who was skilled in the martial arts. In Luoyang, Li Sou introduced Jue Yang to Bai Yufeng. At this time Bai was about 50 years of age, but he still appeared majestic. Jue Yang respected Bai as his master and learned from him very modestly. Jue Yang was so dedicated and intent that Bai and Li Sou were both deeply moved. Together they returned to the Shaolin Temple, where they worked as one to develop Shaolin boxing.

                        Li Sou was also very skilled at martial arts, especially at Xiao Hong, Da Hong, and cudgel stunts. His forms were frequently taught at the Shaolin Temple. Directly tutored by Bai Yufeng, Jue Yuan tried his best to combine his Shaolin style with that of his great master. Thus, they all made contributions to the survival and development of Shaolin Boxing. Today, the Five Imitations Boxings were considered the best of Shaolin Quan and the Da Hong and Xiao Hong Boxings are still very popular. "



                        Uwe
                        I've heard that there is more to the store than this.

                        That Bai Yu Feng introduced Jue Yang to his teacher in Loyang, who had the last name of Ma.
                        He introduced Jue to an internal style.
                        Jue and Bai improved the Lohan forms with this knowledge and
                        Bai set out to develop not 5 but 12 animal forms and that he died before he could perfect the last two forms.

                        Li Sou learned some stuff from Shaolin while there. So, the Xiao and Da Hung might have been there already and he learned them there, and got skilled at it.
                        I think this becasue Hong Quan forms were around all over the local provinces since Sun Tai Tzu times and Tai Tzu long fist features hong quan forms.

                        Comment

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