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  • #16
    My advice would be to spar, and then spar some more. These little drills that people do back and forth are a nice warm up, but the technique doesn't becomes 'yours' until you're able to work it into a sparring session with a resisting partner. That would be a good first step.
    -Jesse Pasleytm
    "How do I know? Because my sensei told me!"

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Fa Hui
      I say get a sense of how your opponent moves. Let him attack and encourage him through your movements to attack, this way you get a sense of how he moves, then base your movements off your feelings of how he moves. This will take some sensitivity training which can be developed by practicing standing meditation every day.
      I disagree. Kind of. Maybe.

      If you are talking about a streetfight then there won't be any studying of the opponent's movement. Since you don't know what his strengths/weaknesses are I think the safest thing to do is destroy is balance and either run like hell or use it as an opening to disable him further.

      If you are talking about sparring, then yeah, study what he does.

      In both cases, sensitivity is needed. In the first example, you need to instantly sense where he's open based on what he's trying to do to you. But, either you get it instantly or you need a method to force an opening.

      I'm not familiar with Chinese style meditation. I've practiced Japanese zazen in the past. I think seated forms of meditation are great, but if you are going to use the mental techniques learned in meditation when fighting then you've got to (at some point) abandon static meditation and do it while you are moving.

      Basically you want to base the situation on feeling and not on technique. You must learn to move from your gut not from your thinking.
      Agreed.

      Mark
      Karate/Jujutsu at Akron Shaw JCC

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      • #18
        Originally posted by juszczec

        If you are talking about a streetfight then there won't be any studying of the opponent's movement.
        Way to go, i totally go with that.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Almost A Ghost
          Good for him for not applying what he learns? ok then....
          He's thinking. Too many people take their teacher's word for, well, way too much if not everything.

          Styles are collections of ideas. Just because a style doesn't contain a particular idea doesn't mean you can't go out and learn it.

          Especially if your goal is survival. Wanna preserve the "art"? Then yeah, learn it and don't change anything.

          But, if you hope to use it against an unknown attacker the surest way to end up in the hospital is to think everything you've learned will be everything you need.

          You have no idea what openings your opponent will give you. Some of them will be such that you can use whatever skills you develop thru your primary training.

          But what if you don't get these kind of openings?

          For example, I do karate and I can punch and kick in straight lines from long range. So what if the guy attacks me from a short range? What if the guy is really good at covering up against striking attacks? What if the guy gives me an opening best attacked with something OTHER than punching and kicking?

          I can hope I'm so much better at what I do than he is at what he does that I win. But there's no guarantee.

          Bottom line, the more options you have (within reason) the better chance you'll be able to pull out the right one.

          Mark
          Karate/Jujutsu at Akron Shaw JCC

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          • #20
            in my opinion, all martial arts teach you to better understand space around you and to better understand how your body works. add in survival instinct (which no MA can teach you) and those are all the main ingredients to a good close-quarters fighter, besides actualy experience (and a knife). whether or not you actually use a single move that you learned in karate class, you're using your experience from the class.
            Last edited by zachsan; 01-27-2005, 04:42 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by zachsan
              in my opinion, all martial arts teach you to better understand space around you and to better understand how your body works.
              Agreed.

              whether or not you actually use a single move that you learned in karate class, you're using your experience from the class.
              Sure.

              But, you've got to be careful about the experiences you have in class. If they are the same ones, over and over and over, you'll get very good at dealing with them.

              Familiarity breeds contempt. Also, when someone throws something you don't expect you may be paralyzed for a split second while you try to sort it out. Then, you may be screwed. At a minimum, you're job will become harder.

              If you don't believe me, throw a hook at a karate guy. I'll go out on a limb and say 90% will wet themselves and look at you as though a space ship landed and disgorged hundreds of 3 eyed aliens.



              Don't believe me? Go ahead and try it. Depending on how unconditioned they are to dealing with circular attacks, you might be able to tell them what you are going to do and have it work anyway.

              Mark
              Karate/Jujutsu at Akron Shaw JCC

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              • #22
                So in order to prove this statistic, I am going to have to throw hooks at 10-100 karate guys? ...I...think I will need a little time to find that many, lol.
                Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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                • #23
                  This is a bit of a problem with all traditional styles i've seen. With the exception of a few of the masters of any traditional art, they tend to do poorly at mma fighting. One example is the hook punch at the karate guy. Another example is western boxing vs. wing chun, wing chun exponents are often so used to only fighting against wing chun that they have severe difficulty against long range fighters who use different stances and rapid footwork.

                  Then you can try kickboxing against tai chi students for funny results too. I think it all boils down to this. A talented student can apply a movement/technique/form to fit a random and surprising situation. An average student will only be able to apply it to situations he/she has already practiced. A poor student has trouble applying anything when they have no time to think.

                  Personnally, I'm trying to build up my gongfu to the point where I can fight with it. Ever seen karate point fighting? They're not even doing karate usually. They just devolve into kickboxing. Same thing with gongfu class sparring.

                  Take a look at ufc. No gongfu. All kickboxing, bjj, and muay thai. I'm not saying I could win any matches in the ufc, but i think theres something odd about the fact that I punch faster in practice than guys like tito ortiz punch in their fights.

                  If you train stances incessently, USE THEM. I guess what I'm saying is, understand your body, be capable of adaptation, and for gods sake use the foundation you've built in your training. Don't try to play gongfu if you're a kickboxer, and dont try to kickbox if your a wing chunner. That's all.

                  You built that foundation for a reason, if you're not going to live in the house, that's just rediculous.
                  Show me a man who has forgotten words, so that I can have a word with him.

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                  • #24
                    I would like to see an actual video of somebody fighting with kung fu without 'devolving' into kickboxing, as you put it.

                    Fighting will not look like your taolu, don't confuse a training method with the outcome. It's kind of like saying people shouldn't do their push-ups and sit-ups because 'you'd never the push-up...ON THE STREET!'
                    -Jesse Pasleytm
                    "How do I know? Because my sensei told me!"

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                    • #25
                      HAHAHHA! I like that analogy, pazman.

                      I agree with ddj for the most part. One of the best things traditional matial arts teaches to a student is focus and clarity of thought (if they are good). These are the best foundations for any fighting whatsoever.

                      One of the other good things about martials arts is it doesn't teach you to windmill.

                      For me, martial arts has helped me understand my body and retain focus. The adrenaline is a factor I have yet to completely subside, but when a fight breaks loose, I have a feeling I know how my body moves and works better then my opponent does, and that is a plus.
                      Becoming what I've dreamed about.

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                      • #26
                        Take a look at ufc. No gongfu. All kickboxing, bjj, and muay thai. I'm not saying I could win any matches in the ufc, but i think theres something odd about the fact that I punch faster in practice than guys like tito ortiz punch in their fights.
                        that also has something to do with the fact that their arms are bigger than me.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by LeiYunFat
                          So in order to prove this statistic, I am going to have to throw hooks at 10-100 karate guys? ...I...think I will need a little time to find that many, lol.
                          Nope. Not at all, find 2. At least 1 will fall for it.

                          Mark
                          Karate/Jujutsu at Akron Shaw JCC

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                          • #28
                            Hey, When it comes to real fights, using combinations like jab-cross followed by hooks or uppercuts can be effective. For body shots, aim for the ribs, liver, or solar plexus area. Remember to generate power from your hips and rotate your body with each punch.

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