Americans!

[doc]

Tell me, what makes the french so stupid?

Who said they were stupid?

They're not stupid.

They're just rude, impolite and uncivilized. Well, the Parisians more specifically. The rest of the country, outside of Paris, is not so bad.

[daodejing]

Noble, the thing is that the nation of france and its inhabitants are somewhat of a joke to most americans. Its the same premise that makes the state of new jersey and its inhabitants a joke to those who live in the tristate area. And the same that makes the state of texas a joke to those who live in california, or for that matter, anywhere. (why monks chose texas of all places still befuddles me, but perhaps the texans need all the help they can get)

If you need more information Noble, take a look at Doc's expose on french military history. I think its titled "God love the French" or something like that.

[doc]

French military history. It's in the Fugue section, the Rubber Room.

When I lived in New York, we used to flush our toilets a few times so that the reservoirs in New Jersey would fill.

[Noble]

I'll do that!

[doc]

Flush your toilet a few times?

[juszczec]

FWIW

If someone kills 3000 civilians in my country, I want his head on a plate as an assurance he won't do it again. Not only his head, but the heads of anyone who may have helped him.

There is something to be said for making an example out of someone.

Also, I've got a feeling the ousting of SH had more to do with establishing an armed American presence in the Middle East than WMD. If you face attacks by ME terrorists, shouldn't 100,000+ armed men in their backyard serve as a preventative measure?

I don't like alot of Bush's policies and I wouldn't have him in my house. Neither would I have his predecessor near my family. I don't like many of Bush's advisors. I don't like how Bush justified the war to the American public. But such is the nature of politics, Machiavelli was right to some extent.

Especially when you look at 3000 dead people.

Mark

[shaolinstylee]

When I lived in New York, we used to flush our toilets a few times so that the reservoirs in New Jersey would fill.

Colorado saying...

We're happy to flush the toilet when we think of the fact that Texas and California are both down hill from here.

[daodejing]

nemo me impune la caset

[Noble]

If someone kills 3000 civilians in my country, I want his head on a plate as an assurance he won't do it again. Not only his head, but the heads of anyone who may have helped him.

Have you ever thought of putting yourself in this very one's position, and looking at it all from his angle?

Actually, the skill of putting oneself in anotherone's position is one of the things that makes the difference between human beings and all other animals.
Such as monkeys.


Don't misunderstand me, of course killing thousands of people in a way like this is an act that can't be described with words, but, could it be that that act could have been prevented if both sides put themselves in the otherone's positions, tried to learn about the other parts culture, theirs ways of living and thinking?

Talking about cultural understanding, I heard Bush had not even been outside of the states before he got president?


Noble

[juszczec]

Originally posted by Noble
Have you ever thought of putting yourself in this very one's position, and looking at it all from his angle?

Actually, the skill of putting oneself in anotherone's position is one of the things that makes the difference between human beings and all other animals.

Yes, I try to empathize but I stop when the other guy starts killing people.

I suspect the hatred in the Middle East is so old, thousands of years, that none of today's participants really knows why they hate the other guy. They just do.

Don't misunderstand me, of course killing thousands of people in a way like this is an act that can't be described with words, but, could it be that that act could have been prevented if both sides put themselves in the otherone's positions, tried to learn about the other parts culture, theirs ways of living and thinking?

Sure, it could have. The problem is neither side is willing to compromise enough. Also, as Arafat's experience with Hamas has shown, there are some elements who refuse to be bound by any agreement not to their liking.

Talking about cultural understanding, I heard Bush had not even been outside of the states before he got president?

Bush is the least important, but most public, part of the whole American government. The same could be said for any other President. Its not the President or his cabinet that gets stuff done, its the legislature.

if you want me to run on about what is wrong with Congress, just ask

Mark

[Noble]

I suspect the hatred in the Middle East is so old, thousands of years, that none of today's participants really knows why they hate the other guy. They just do.

Do you really believe that? You don't think that is a little naive?
I do. Actually, all your statements indicates a little naive mind here.

People just don't hate. It's always a cause.
Many people give their lives every day for what they believe in, and many others just can't wait to do the same.
You probably don't understand this. I certainly don't.

But the one thing I know is that it all is for a reason, and that it 99% of the times is a last, desperate act of resistance against a more powerful enemy.


Peace.

[juszczec]

Originally posted by Noble
Do you really believe that? You don't think that is a little naive?

I'm happy you have never run into blind, unreasoning hatred. Norway must be a great place to live.

I have. I lived with it. I felt it. It is possible to hate and forget the reasons why.

You can find plenty of examples reading history.

People just don't hate. It's always a cause.
Many people give their lives every day for what they believe in, and many others just can't wait to do the same.
You probably don't understand this. I certainly don't.

No, I understand fanaticism. I understand idealistic people placing their faith in corrupt men who use them while promising all sorts of rewards.

But the one thing I know is that it all is for a reason, and that it 99% of the times is a last, desperate act of resistance against a more powerful enemy.

Maybe. Maybe not. How long have terrorists been targeting Israel and its supporters? You can't call stuff that's been going for 30 or 40 years a last act.

Mark

[dogchow108]

Originally posted by Noble
Do you really believe that? You don't think that is a little naive?
I do. Actually, all your statements indicates a little naive mind here.

People just don't hate. It's always a cause.
Many people give their lives every day for what they believe in, and many others just can't wait to do the same.
You probably don't understand this. I certainly don't.

But the one thing I know is that it all is for a reason, and that it 99% of the times is a last, desperate act of resistance against a more powerful enemy.


Peace.

noble, there is no naevity in that statement; you just think you are one step ahead of everyone. you are not. let your ego go. no one really thinks that people are just born with unexplainable hatred. hatred is bred. it is handed down from generation to generation. at this point, the hatred is so strong, and in some cases crucial to the existence of certain groups, that the explanations have to be vast and convincing- even if that means using explanations that are not really to the point or even *gasp!* untrue. you go on here and criticize americans for "starting" wars. people criticize military action no matter what the choice. people call the war "legal terrorism" and yet the views and actions of people like usama bin laden, saddam hussein, yasser arafat, hamas, jihad....they go untouched by negative opinion from these people. so strong is anti-US sentiment that these people who talk about naiivety and blindness don't even realize how uneducated and inexperienced their comments are. you think people here's comments show naevity? buddy, i hope for you that you never know what it is like to walk onto a bus as a non-theist but catch yourself praying that you don't die. i hope you never have to sit in a cafe' in your country and hope no one walks into there with explosives. i hope you never have to walk into a club and find where to hang out so that if someone comes in there and explodes you have the least likeliness of having shratnel fly into your head. you probably dont know what its like to come to a country over the summer to visit your family and friends but instead find yourself watching the news every couple of days seeing peices of people being removed from a place where the body count is 1 dead terrorist, 20 dead people and yet it is not called a homocide.

the good thing is, the opinion of a little pussy from norway just dosent matter. in fact, the opinions of pussies all over the world just dosent matter, because when people do things like blow up a bus, blow up a cafe, blow up a world trade center, ALL of which are civillian targets, my poor misguided friend, the opinions of sheltered little pussies like you just DONT MATTER (of course, there have been military casualties, such as a busload of israeli soldiers...which by the way was a mistake because members of hamas, jihad, al quaeda, they do everything possible to kill civillians and not military personell) when someone is shooting at you and wont stop no matter what, there are two most likely results- you die or he does. if this situation makes the person on the receiving side a warmonger, you know what? im proud of it. the only stupid thing bush ever did was not tell the truth about why he's going into iraq- and even this is questionable because you and I will never know what he really knows. so we havent yet found weaponsOMD that belong to Saddam Hussein- do i give a ****? do i think we made a mistake? hell no. the fact that we cant find them makes it even more suspicious.


as for hatred- you simply cannot compare one side's hatred to anothers in this situation. one side sends their children to die or theor people to kill themselves and take countless civillian lives along the way. and last time i checked, theres a lot of things a 17 year old girl can do with herself before dying in what you, in an act of sheer idiocy and the height of hypocracy telling people that theyre naive, call a desperate act of resistance. the other side has no such action amongst its civillians and uses a military that, although is questionable in its leadership, attacks militants and military personell. either side has the ability, and thus i think the right, to attack as they choose. but you know what? when one of those sides passes a certain line- when that mosquito wakes up the elephant, that's it man. game over. you can call americans warmongers all you want, but it jus, doesnt, matter.

but you know what? all this will go in one side of your head and out the other, because you are a pussy sitting in norway with absulotely no understanding of whats really going on here. you can click on all the webpages you want, read all the newspapers you want, look at all the clips you want and read all the anti-american propaganda you are naiive enough to seem to think is reliable, but until you have experienced this hatred first hand or lived in a place that dosent just sit in its diaper and cry you simply wont understand.

[Lipster]

Well put.

Ditto.

[shaolinstylee]

but until you have experienced this hatred first hand or lived in a place that dosent just sit in its diaper and cry you simply wont understand.

Or know people who were killed/severly affected by the acts of some of these militant groups.