interesting fallout from Iraq invasion

[Linientreu]

i dare you to turn over 10 random items and look for the 'Made In'. chances are at least half of them will say China. The U.S. doesn't have the power? China wouldn't dare say no.... they export a large percentage of their goods to the U.S.. as i said... economic power. And judging from the ignorance of your post i'm guessing you missed the jist of mine: i, unlike you, don't cling to notions of hearsay or those a countries propoganda machine feeds me. Yes i grew up in germany but i don't identify myself as german, nor american for that matter. Germans aren't perfect, never claimed they were... but my 'anti-u.s.' mentality as you put it stems from looking at the facts without prejudice. You see, just like most organized religion does, being nationalistic divides you from other people on a grand scale... then of course we also divide ourselves by income(social status), race and even sex. i choose not to do any of that. thats why i don't affiliate myself with, try to represent any or play "this country is better than that one". honestly they're mostly all full of **** and have their f***ups. America just happens to be disgustingly overt in their covert attempts at colonization. i recommend you try to understand what i'm saying for just a second without judging it beforehand, hopefully it will help free your mind.

P.S. if the kick out of MA thing was a joke, then you need practice... noone laughed

[dogchow108]

well its a good thing you sound so evenhanded and unbiased.

[Linientreu]

*sniff sniff* is that sarcasm?

[zachsan]

linientreu - china says no to the u.s. all the time.

but anyway, so you were born and grew up in germany, and then moved to the u.s. later, yet you don't identify yourself as either a german or an american. you obviously have the means to access a computer and the internet regularly, yet you do not consider yourself a part of any economic class. you're a human being, so you obviously have a race, or some collection of races in your ancestry, yet you do not claim any of these for yourself. i am willing to bet that you are either a man or a woman. but you choose 'not to do any of that', that is, make any distinctions.

man, whether or not you choose to accept it, the distinctions are there. i was born in the u.s., i've lived here my entire life and i enjoy considerable privileges because i live here. i understand how lucky i am, i understand that it's because i'm an american, and i'm grateful for that. for me to enjoy all of the benefits, yet refuse to even call myself an american, would be a little bit spineless, don't you think?

for me to be a middle-class white male american, yet call myself anything but that, would be ridiculous. the beauty of it is that i don't need to. that's what i am, and my government doesn't give a rat's ass what i call myself, they're going to protect me anyway.

that same principle goes the other way, too. if i'm a british citizen in northern ireland, but call myself a martian, the i.r.a. will still be happy to blow me up. if i'm an israeli cross-dresser who is almost certainly the fifteenth reincarnation of alexander the great, my ass will still be just as dead if i take the wrong bus. see where i'm going with this?

[dogchow108]

Originally posted by Linientreu
*sniff sniff* is that sarcasm?

why no, of course not. you're obviously very neutral and unopinionated. i envy people who can live their whole life unaffected by the envirnment; its a very difficult thing to do. really, it's admiration thats all.

[doc]

Zach, given typical lifespans over the centuries, your Israeli cross dresser would have to be somewhere around the fortieth (or higher) generation reincarnation of Alexander the Great. Assuming, human reincarnations of course.

But, I like the way you think, lol..

[Linientreu]

my fault, i can see i wasn't 100% clear in my post. we'll chalk that up to my being an immigrant of course i understand that i belong to a certain social class, sex, and race. the point i tried to make was that i will not hate, belittle, pass judgment or disassociate myself from someone else based on differences in these. the reason i mentioned that was to illuminate the fact that this type of animosity often happens among people based on larger dividers such as nationality or religion. for example: something common you might have heard within the last 2 1/2 years or so:
1. i hate the french because i'm american
2. i hate arabs/ iraqis because i'm american, they're all terrorists
3. i hate muslims because i'm christian and/or because they're terrorists

[zachsan]

well sure, i agree that prejudice against large groups of innocent people is wrong. i personally have nothing against the french, muslims or iraqis. i have a problem with terrorists, though. that problem is that i don't want to die. so they should.

the kind of examples you're talking about, i think, are very clear examples of prejudice that need to be worked through. but if, say, we wanted to eliminate all racism in the world, i think it would be a bit counterproductive to just tell everyone they were micronesian.

doc - i've heard of people that believe in 2,000 years between a single human reincarnation. who's to say? for that matter, who's to say i'm not talking about someone that lived 15 generations ago in northern alaska that was born as an albino and thus decided that he was, in fact, the alexander the great?

[Linientreu]

sure i totally agree, terrorism is terrible. and blanket statements/hate are too. How about just human instead of micronesian?

[zachsan]

this is my point, man. we're not "just human". each race as a lot of history to be proud of, and we want to continue being proud of that. each race also has a lot of history that we're not proud of, and we're still paying for that with human lives. perhaps eventually we will all just mix into a big soup of humanity, but for now, we're not, and we've got to deal with these problems instead of ignore them.

[doc]

I was assuming no "down time" between reincarnations. And, an average typical lifespan for each century. Why would anyone want "down time"? And what would one's spirit do? No computer games, no tele, no babes, what a waste of time.

[dogchow108]

Linientreu-

i dont necessarily think you are incorrect, and the phraises you gave are anything but an inaccurate depiction of what people often hear especially in the states, but you have to be really naiive to think that racism and hatred in the US is anything comparable to the racism and hatred on the other side.

you mention blanket statements, which i can only assume that you mean a collective, verbal categorization of people. its ok to show the ones you hear in the US, but dont hide behind the "i dont choose sides" smokescreen. people have told me that if i am going to throw mud, throw it on everyone who deserves it.

[lester1/2jr]

How can you say there is more racial hatred in the US than Germany. dude one word: Hitler. as far as beleiving the propaganda machine? We have "alternative" media in this country. we all know all the arguements that usually end up with the US being the bad guy. We see YOUR ideas as propaganda. You country killed 6 millin jews and tried to take over the world so everyone wouldhave blonde hair abd blue eyes. You have ALOT more explaining to do than any american.

[lester1/2jr]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20040611/ap_on_re_as/thailand_attacks

just more on the thailand buddhist/ muslim conflict

[lester1/2jr]

#24 SJKevin 6/11/2004 08:22AM PST


This situation is more serious than it looks from the outside, as many of the events in this conflict, which has been picking up since the start of the year, have not made the international news.

Examples:
- This heated up with a well-coordinated attack on an army base, in which a lot of weaponry was stolen. As a diversion, this raid was accompanied by the simultaneous torching of multiple schools
- Many public schools (state-funded, non-religious) have been torched, and teachers have been threatened and killed. (Muslim schools, many of which teach nothing but Islam all day long, are safe, of course.)
- Many buddhist temples (22, last I heard), have been vacated due to death threats
- Some buddhist temples have been bombed
- Some buddhist monks have been hacked to death, including a 13-year old apprentice
- Over a ton of dynamite was stolen by armed insurgents from a mining quarry
- Muslims have been afraid to cooperate with the authorities or associate too much with buddhists, for fear that their muslim neighbors will brand them as traitors
- To his credit, the highest-ranking muslim cleric here has urged muslims to cooperate with the government in ending this. Earlier, most muslim leaders announced that they were not going to cooperate, as they were angry about the government searching some islamic boarding schools where it was believed suspects had fled to.
- About 100 insugents, mostly teenagers, were killed in an armed standoff at a mosque, which was widely reported world-wide. These teenagers referred to themselves as mujahideen and described their actions as jihad.
- A 63-year old buddhist rubber farmer was recently beheaded. His head was placed by a road, and a note was left on a body saying (sorry for the bad translation): As long as you continue to arrest innocent muslims, we'll continue to kill innocent buddhists
- Quite a few Thai muslims had fought against the Soviets in Afghanistan, and quite a few Islamic teachers in Thailand come from the middle east, so there's a ready supply of jihad ideology
- Every year, a few hundred thai muslim students receive scholarships to study Islam for free in the middle east, funded by various middle eastern islamic charities. (Think wahabbiism.)

The Thai government has bungled some things. For example, it looks as if Thai cops may have kidnapped a muslim lawyer who was defending suspected terrorists.

But overall, the Thai government is doing the best it can with an unpleasant situation. And overall, Thailand remains a very safe place to visit. Just avoid the deep south, and a few border regions.

(this was from Little green football comments section)