fareheit 9/11 review - Roger Ebert

[doc]

I've spoken with many people from outside the US also Meat. China, Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam, etc, etc. And yes, without a doubt, our govt, and especially our media, present sometimes an altered side to what the truth ultimately was. The atrocities that we committed in Vietnam, long denied by our govt and media, are one example (I wrote about it years ago). But, I've also noticed that some of these people follow THEIR GOV'T's bull**** line of thinking when it comes to the US foreign policy. You have to be careful about what people say to you; always try to put their thoughts into perspective, according to where they come from. I've heard a lot of anti-US **** on this trip, about Bush, about Iraq, etc, etc. But, upon further interrogation, I've discovered that most of these people are just reciting the concepts that they've been fed by their media.

Just like we tend to do.

As far as life behind the Iron Curtain, I don't understand how you could possible imply that part of it was good. I saw it first hand. My impressions of it was that it was far inferior to our life in the western world. Far inferior. And from the people that I've met that had escaped it, for a life in Canada and the US, my impressions seem to be correct. Even now, some of these countries are still way behind the times. China, even though not in my mind an Iron Curtain country, is a perfect example. Their civilization, if you want to call it that, has far to go to catch up with our quality of life. Or, the quality of life in Hong Kong, which now belongs to it.

I'll be back in September. Date unknown. Looking forward to meeting you. Steve will show you the proper method of attaining enlightment in our local churches.

[meattosser]

The good Doctor said: "You have to be careful about what people say to you; always try to put their thoughts into perspective, according to where they come from."

I couldn't agree with you more.

Doc also said: "As far as life behind the Iron Curtain, I don't understand how you could possible imply that part of it was good..."

Sorry if you misunderstood, I didn't mean AT ANY time that nations under totalitarian versions of Communism were having fun. What I was saying is that not every Nationalist movement was about becoming Communist. Some just wanted to democratically elect their own leaders for the first time in years. But this often led to conflict with Western business interests. Which, in turn, worried the hell out of the British/US governments. Hence, they plan swift and brutally effective assassinations, getting rid of the popular leader, and installing some pansy-ass dick sucking puppet dictator, who takes it in the ass for western money/deals, but doesn't give a damn about his/her own people (sorry for the graphic descriptions, lol).

Doc also said: "Even now, some of these countries are still way behind the times."

Indeed.

Doc also said: "Looking forward to meeting you."

Same here man, I got mad respect for ya. You've pretty much worked, and worked and worked, constantly to try to bring a better understanding of Shaolin to the masses; plus ya got this kick-ass website, hahaha. Gotta give ya respect for that. (And Steve too, heh heh, he's one of the unsung heroes.)

Doc also said: "Steve will show you the proper method of attaining enlightment in our local churches."

Wait a second, this doesn't involve a huge fat guy named Bob rubbing my back, does it? lol.

[Steve]

Who's Bob?

[doc]

He'll meet Bob.

[zachsan]

Originally posted by meattosser
Hahaha, indeed, we are still only 20-21 years old. All the same though, since we didn't live through most of it, you can't go around saying that we actually WERE indeed in that much danger and all actions taken were for American people's safety. Besides, I have many good friends/family that DID live through that time. Indeed, and if someone during that time was scared ****less, it pretty much proves my point to begin with: that the government's domestic agenda was to successfully keep the average citizen in fear of the "Evil Empire". Worked for the most part.

i suppose the difference is that, having grown up with all of the many benefits of being an american, and realizing how fortunate i am to enjoy those benefits, i give my country the benefit of the doubt. i have no idea what you've been through, or what your family's been through, but for some reason, you seem to be looking for the mistakes instead of the successes.

but i know what you're thinking. "just because you don't have to live with the consequences of america's mistakes doesn't mean that they don't exist." ok. and also, probably, "well, if they have made these mistakes, then there shouldn't be anything wrong with calling them out on it." that would be right too.

the thing is, the whole mentality that you're the one with the real truth, and that you're the compassionate american who's really not that bad, you're looking out for the little guy in cambodia - moore's approach, and a common one among the more devout left - well, that's a load of horse crap. let's say america really is evil and imperialist (which it's not). then you're part of an evil system, supporting it and reaping its benefits as a consumer. you make no effort to remove yourself from that system. yet you denounce its actions every chance you get. i'm sorry, but the little guy in cambodia that you're looking out for is laughing his ass off at you.

and the thing is, most people who are less fortunate than us don't want to kill america, whatever its mistakes have been. there's a much better chance that they would kill to be a part of it.

[meattosser]

Good ol' Zachsan

Damn Zachsan, you love to pick a fight, don't you? lol.

Zachsan said: "...you make no effort to remove yourself from that system. yet you denounce its actions every chance you get."

I have no wish to 'remove' myself from my country. I do wish some things would change for the better. I love this country to death; I hate the bastards in charge, but that doesn't mean I hate this nation and its CORE VALUES, constitutional rights,etc. This is a great nation, but it's not the ONLY great nation. Saying that, too me, is just arrogant. I'm Mexican too, and I visit Michoacan (a state about 1,000 miles south of the border) every few years. I got a lot of love for it, and I wish I could help my family there and make reforms in government. A lot of problems there, but I still love the place. I live in the US though, so I focus on the issues that we have here. Damn right I criticize some things our nation has done, because I love this nation, and I worry in which direction the nation goes. I want to make sure our nation lives up to its core values, and REMAINS HUMBLE, showing respect to other peoples/cultures. I think it's important to constantly look for ways to better our system of government/justice system, so it could be just and fair for ALL races that live here; that's one of the good things of our CORE system, it's dynamic, ever-evolving.
But then again, I think you're just trying to distract me from the huge fat guy named Bob, that was gonna try to rub my back, lol.

[zachsan]

Originally posted by meattosser
I have no wish to 'remove' myself from my country. I do wish some things would change for the better. I love this country to death; I hate the bastards in charge, but that doesn't mean I hate this nation and its CORE VALUES, constitutional rights,etc.

that's a common argument. the thing is, i believe in these same core values, but core values aren't what protect you and ensure your standard of living into the future. the "bastards in charge" are what do this. and what you're criticizing is them; so, you're criticizing the source of your safety and standard of living.

This is a great nation, but it's not the ONLY great nation. Saying that, too me, is just arrogant.

i bet it would be. who said it?

Damn right I criticize some things our nation has done, because I love this nation, and I worry in which direction the nation goes. I want to make sure our nation lives up to its core values, and REMAINS HUMBLE, showing respect to other peoples/cultures. I think it's important to constantly look for ways to better our system of government/justice system, so it could be just and fair for ALL races that live here; that's one of the good things of our CORE system, it's dynamic, ever-evolving.

farbeit from me to say that all criticism is wrong. it's the habit i don't like. the tendency to assume the worst about your own country on just about every issue, even going so far as to say that the cold war was almost all propaganda, when neither you nor i were there. i guess the jist of what i'm saying is that, in reality, some bias is unavoidable; and therefore, we should be biased in favor of our own government, which provides us with security and the freedom to pursue our core values. you won't hear many politicians say anything like that, since they're supposed to be the all-knowing holders of objective truth, but that's how i honestly feel.

now, that does not include overlooking gross errors of judgment or blatant infringements of law or those core values. but, when sufficient evidence exists both for and against our leaders and their decisions, to the point where questions of conduct and motive can be intelligently argued, we should start, in our individual assessments, on the basic premise that our leaders are fighting for us, want what we want, and probably have a much clearer understanding of the situation than we do. we should then come to our conclusions from that point, rather than from the point of assuming the worst. honestly, from what you've written on these boards, i just get the impression that you're taking the latter approach.

But then again, I think you're just trying to distract me from the huge fat guy named Bob, that was gonna try to rub my back, lol.

that's what he pays me for.

[mortal]

U.S.A. Greatest country in the world. Fact.

If not then who is? We made our country work in a couple of hundred years from scratch. While the rest of the world repeatedly cut each others throats stopping chances of success and freedom. Now everyone is so jealous of our success they want us to fail.

At the olympic games we can't even show our colors on the uniforms for fear of anti-americanism. There are so many truly evil regimes in the world. For some reason eveyone picks us to hate. Instead of being anti terrorist let's just blame the imperialist U.S. of A. After all we did provoke the hornets nest with our bungling.

Insanity.

[lester1/2jr]

I think the only reference alot of people have for any kind of cultural clash is the way blacks were treated in america. So they apply the same sort of ideas to muslims even terrorists. This is wrong. There are no white people in charge of Iran or Yemen. Their corruput leaders are the problem. Even if you feel the US govt is somehow corrupt, it could never be to the length that most of the muslim nations are. Most of the idiots have been in power for like twenty or more years. They have streets named after themselves and have relatives killed to add to their sense of self importance. The US didn't teach this to them.

[mortal]

Where are all the peace protesters when scumbag dictators are killing their own people?

I'll tell you where. On the internet looking for "facts" to support their own insane conspiricy theories about the U.S.A. and Bush. That is all that rallies these people.

[zachsan]

Originally posted by mortal
U.S.A. Greatest country in the world. Fact.

now that i agree with. that's not the same as the only great country.

Now everyone is so jealous of our success they want us to fail.

i don't think they all want us to fail at all. we're making a few of them bundles of money.

At the olympic games we can't even show our colors on the uniforms for fear of anti-americanism.

are you serious?

Originally posted by lester1/2jr
I think the only reference alot of people have for any kind of cultural clash is the way blacks were treated in america.

better than minorities in a lot of countries would let themselves dream of.

[lester1/2jr]

What we need to do is figure out a way to blame the US for what is going on in Sudan. It won't be easy, but it' the only way anyone will give a rat's ass about them

[zachsan]

'sudan' sounds like 'saddam', if you apply a little imagination.

stop the presses.

[mortal]

I'm dead serious. Can you imagine there is so much backwards hatred and jealousy of our country that our athletes can't wear outfits with American flags all over them. Like we have worn all through history.

We don't want to provoke any terrorist animals. Then everyone will say it was our fault. We deserved it. How dare we wear our country's flag at the olympics. We must be hot **** arrogant imperialists.

[zachsan]

where did you hear that? about not being allowed to wear colors, i mean?

i've read some articles saying that US athletes aren't supposed to wave the flag around or partake in "jingoistic behavior" after a win... which is bull**** all on its own... but i haven't heard anything about our uniforms being changed.