fareheit 9/11 review - Roger Ebert

[zachsan]

well, he believes he's 100% right about his political views, and one of his views is that he needs to get everyone else to think the same way. so, he uses a medium that reaches a lot of people who will simply never know the other side of the story, because they're not educated or intelligent enough to take it at anything but face value. he controls two and a half hours of their time, and sadly, that's more than enough to convince most people in america of your side of issues that otherwise they would know next to nothing about.

[doc]

All good points. The sad thing about film, is that it's very easy for a director / editor to pick the stuff that he wants, and use it to suit his needs. It's very easy to take things out of context. Very easy. Granted, from the previews that I saw, Bush is made to look like a moron. But, if you think about these film clips, you can easily see how this can be done.

Sad. What's worse, is that many people will take this film at face value, and not question what's behind it.

[meattosser]

Actually, Moore wants people to debate over it. He wants people to AT LEAST start debating the issues instead of being cynical and believing, "Oh well, nothing will change anyway..."

As for the 'taking things at face value', well, the whole damn reason Bush was accepted in 2000, (and barely) is because they took HIM at face value, and didn't dig deep enough to find out how irresponsible and dishonest him and Cheney really are.

Zachsan: "Well, he believes he's 100% right about his political views, and one of his views is that he needs to get everyone else to think the same way..."

Not necessarily. Moore himself has stated several times that it's an "op-ed" piece. Many times in the film, the video footage simply speaks for itself. He doesn't have to say much. Pretty much everything shown in the film can be backed up by fact. Furthermore, he has stated that when he makes certain remarks or whatever, those are HIS opinions. He puts many facts on the table, and he also makes comments and opinions about them; he has clearly stated that. Sometimes people get it twisted though, and make bad comments about the film before even seeing it unfortunately. Oh well, at least we're debating about it, heh heh.

[meattosser]

By the way Doc, when you gonna be back in Vegas? I'm thinking of going one of these upcoming months, but I wanted the privilege to meet the ol' Doc face-to-face, haha.

[zachsan]

"As for the 'taking things at face value', well, the whole damn reason Bush was accepted in 2000, (and barely) is because they took HIM at face value, and didn't dig deep enough to find out how irresponsible and dishonest him and Cheney really are."

you could say that about any politician you want, after they've been elected. you're pretty much just saying that our population is incompetent to vote.

"Not necessarily. Moore himself has stated several times that it's an "op-ed" piece. Many times in the film, the video footage simply speaks for itself. He doesn't have to say much. Pretty much everything shown in the film can be backed up by fact."

sure, facts that are a whole lot less dramatic when compared to certain other facts that are left out of the film. and i think the jist of what people have been saying on this thread for the past day or so is, footage can't really speak for itself. you need to know the whole story, or a little bit of selective editing can paint about any picture that you want it to.

"Actually, Moore wants people to debate over it. He wants people to AT LEAST start debating the issues instead of being cynical and believing, "Oh well, nothing will change anyway..." "

i'm sure that's true. i think moore is trying to convince the public of his politics; i don't think he's trying to brainwash them. and that's true of just about everyone i know with any political opinions at all. my problem is that i think moore's method of doing so is less-than-honest, because this movie presents itself as damning evidence against the president, when such evidence is well-known and openly disputed, but when a good part of the audience will not understand this.

[zachsan]

hehe, just for kicks:

The whole damn reason Bush was accepted in 2000 (and barely) is because he has stated that when he makes certain remarks or whatever, those are HIS opinions. He puts many facts on the table, and he also makes comments and opinions about them; he has clearly stated that. Sometimes people get it twisted though, and make bad comments about the ol' Doc face-to-face, haha. Oh well, nothing will change anyway...

- meatttosser

[doc]

Hey Meat, would you consider Clinton to be "irresponsible and dishonest"? Just curious.

I'll be back in the US sometime in August or September. Start learning how to pray. Steve and I will perfect you.

[mortal]

Let me answer for him.

What is the big deal he just caught a BJ.

[meattosser]

The good ol' Doc said: "Hey Meat, would you consider Clinton to be "irresponsible and dishonest"? Just curious."

Hmm, well, yes and no. There are things about Clinton that I think were pretty decent. Generally speaking, he kept the country pretty strong economically. At the same time, I believe he should have acted more strongly against international criminals and the like. He was too nice to Saudi Arabia (like many presidents have been), and during the Kosovo incident, he might've authorized bombings on civilian areas; perhaps he knew of that or perhaps those were clandestine intelligence missons, would have to dig deeper into that one. He kept our international relationships pretty strong though, and was way more open-minded than "dubya". He lied about a blowjob, but man, that's the least of my worries. That's his business. My view of Clinton is not Black/White, he made some mistakes, but I think he also did some strong things for the country domestically.

Hey Zachsan, what the hell? Did you edit and twist my previous statements? Heh heheh.

Also, out of curiousity, you post so often on this forum, do you ever have time to actually practice yer gongfu? No offense or nothing, just amazed at how you're able to put lots of time on the website and all that, heh.

The good doctor Russbo said: "I'll be back in the US sometime in August or September. Start learning how to pray. Steve and I will perfect you."

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Heh heh. Seriously, I'm a little weirded out by that statement. Are you threatening me? You AND Steve? The great "Long-haired One"? Or perhaps... you're trying to seduce me? Heh heh heh.
Just be careful. Don't get me angry... you won't like me... when I'm angry... (Meat begins to glow green...)

So, yer coming back in August then, eh? Damn, I'll have to wait a few more months then. I'm a pretty big fan of the Beastie Boys, and I heard they were at Vegas just a few weeks back, I was gonna go then, but I didn't have enough cash, heh heh.

[zachsan]

i practice gongfu on my own time. i post on this forum while i'm on the payroll.

i am definitely a prime example of what is wrong with america today.

[doc]

None of us would even think about seducing you. And I never threaten people. Though, if I had to, I wouldn't need help.

Meat, we shall teach you. You have much to learn, young master. Vegas shall be an education,

[meattosser]

Zachsan said: "I am definitely a prime example of what is wrong with america today..."

Hahahaha, yes indeed.

The good doctor Russbo said: "Meat, I make love to gorillas."
(hahaa, okay, okay, he didn't say that...)

But he did say this:
"Meat, we shall teach you. You have much to learn, young master. Vegas shall be an education."

Ah, yes, can't wait for Vegas man. It's gonna be madness. Blue man group, Penn and Teller, strippers, lap dances, oh yeah. The good stuff.

The good doctor also said: "None of us would even think about seducing you..."

We'll see what happens after a few drinks, buddy.

[doc]

Sorry to ruin your desires and aspirations. None of the russbo gang is into seducing men.

We have enough trouble finding the time to seduce the whores that surround us on a daily basis, lol.

[dogchow108]

what if some of them are men but you just havent managed to seduce them and find out?

[doc]

We are highly skilled professionals, very experienced in the ways of the elusive and deceiving FLW's.

You are in good hands when you pray with us.