Infectious diseases: HIV

[RJW]

I know this isn't your field of expertise, Doc, but I heard something recently…

Someone with HIV or AIDS who cuts them selves with a knife--the blood left on the blade is "safe" as once the virus hits the air it dies. Any truth in this?

[daodejing]

Not immediatly "safe", but the hiv/aids virus does die upon contact with air. Thats why you can't get it from breathing near a patient. But it might take longer than a second. Honestly I don't know exactly how long, but it does die upon contact with air.

Why do you ask, did an aids patient cut themselves and then immediatly try to stab you?

[doc]

Yes, HIV virus does eventually die when it is exposed to air. It really is a very fragile virus, as far as viruses go. But, it's nto the viral particles that are exposed to air that you have to worry about. It's the very viable viral particles that are floating around in the serum of the blood. They'll live, for a while, all depending upon temperature, and how long that serum stays "friendly", ie, doesn't dry up and dessicate.

I first started working with AIDS patients before they were really called AIDS patients. We called them PCP patients, because they had Pneumocystis pneumonia. It was a rare pneumonia back in those days, and we really didn't know what was causing it. A lot of homosexuals and IV drug abusers were getting it, coming into our ICU with really bad and progressive pneumonia. Some of them had Kaposi's sarcoma also. (Internal and external sarcomas that were darkish blue, the first time you see them inside someone's mouth, down their trachea, it makes you realize how futile a disease process it was back then, in the early 1980's). We didn't really know what caused it, but, one thing was for sure. We made damn sure that we didn't get too closely involved with the patient's fluids. And, at that time, we also protected against airborne transmission. We just weren't sure what we were up against.

One of my first patients was a teenage college student at the local university, who was from Africa. He came down with Pneumocystis pneumonia. And he was dying, despite our best treatments with antibiotics and ventilator support. His family was fairly wealthy, they actually flew in a witch doctor from Africa to perform an exorcism. In our ICU. Three times. The kid died after that.

In fact, they all tended to die. We were treating the pneumocystis with the proper antibiotics, but, they just all withered away and eventually passed on. Those were depressing times.

And they were scary times. For it soon became obvious that it was passed by serum and blood; hell, IV drug abusers were giving it to themselves, there was no reason why we couldn't give it to ourselves, by accident, after sticking a patient with a needle, and then sticking ourselves. And it happened. Far too often than I would want to tell. In those days, we didn't use needles with protective covers. And plastic injectors. It was all stainless steel, stainless steel that could as easily pierce a part of you with infected blood, as it pierced our dying patients. And rubber gloves don't stop needles. For a while, they started making needle proof rubble gloves, but they were useless to use. Scary times.

So, yes, the virus will live in the fluid for one to two hours, depending upon environmental conditions. (A typical summer day in Las Vegas, or a typical winter day in Syracuse, will most definitely shorten the virus life). Having that fluid injected into your tissues may or may not infect you. Some studies have shown that repeated exposure to the virus is necessary. But then again, there have been many reports of people getting stuck with an infected needle only once, and developing HIV antibodies.

So, yes, HIV doesn't live well on toilet seats. But it willl survive on inanimate objects if it is nice and cozy within some warm moist serum. And it can infect you if it is allowed to enter your body in that serum, whether it be through a purposeful or accidental puncture of your skin with the infected object, or, by transmitting through a break in your skin when you have been exposed to this infected serum.

[RJW]

Actually it had to do with a kitchen knife and nothing at all to do with me I'm happy to say. Just one of the many things I've heard about HIV/AIDS that I wasn't sure how true it was. Thanks guys.

[doc]

In response to your question, as I see I may not have clearly answered it.

No, the blood on a knife is not safe; it is still infectious. Unless the blood has dried, after which, the virus should die, in some period of time unknown to me (but soon).

[RJW]

Well seeing as how I'm here lets open the floor up shall we?

How lethal is your mouth--in terms of corrosive enzymes & such? I understand the mouth is an inhospitable environment for disease. I've heard a lot of people over the years say oral sex is safe. But I figure if I can catch STD's by putting my penis in a vagina why not with my wet porous tongue?

[Cheyenne]

Well, first let’s see how HIV can be transmitted. It can be transmitted from an infected person to another through: blood (including menstrual blood), semen, vaginal secretions and breast milk. Blood contains the highest concentration of the virus, followed by semen, followed by vaginal fluids and last followed by breast milk.
Oral sex is considered a low risk practice, as the mouth is an inhospitable environment for HIV, which means that the risk of HIV transmission through the throat, gums and oral membranes is lower than through vaginal or anal membranes. Even if the risk of transmission of HIV is less than that of unprotected anal or vaginal sex, there are still some documented cases where HIV was transmitted orally, so we can’t say that getting HIV-infected semen, vaginal fluid or blood in the mouth is without risk. Always keep in mind that some cuts or sores can be present in the mouth, from where the HI virus can enter easily into your blood.

[doc]

HIV doesn't like the mouth. It's not a friendly environment. But, HIV can enter the body through sores or cuts in the mouth, so oral sex should not be considered to be a safe practice in that respect.

And along that vein, other viruses can be transmitted orally also, such as the Herpes family of viruses.

Amazing how we don't see Cheye for weeks, and then she pops up for some discourse on oral sex.... HMMMM.

[Nightstrike]

Wait a minute doc, What did you say back there?
Something about people developing HIV antibodies?
Why the heck aren't those antibodies extracted and reproduced then?
It's just an idea, I'm only 15, so I don't know too much, but hey, its an idea.

[doc]

Well, a team in France actually gave some HIV infected patients sera, full of antibodies, from AIDS patients, to see if that would be an effective treatment. It needs to be studied, much more.

I don't think that anyone has created an "HIV antibody" yet. Really not sure though. Other antibodies have been made, to the tune of thousands. But HIV is a different animal, it changes it's "signature", so new "brands" of antibodies always have to be made by the body.

And, when treating AIDS, there is a lot more to it than making antibodies. With AIDS, certain types of blood cells that are important in cleaning up viruses and bacteria, (with the help of antibodies), get diminished. That's the reason why people with AIDS get into trouble, they can't fight off other infections.

Good question for a fifteen year old. Very impressed.

[fanzi]

If some one cuts themselves near you, Hepatitis B and C should be more of a concern. These viruses can survive on a surface for much longer. I think about 2 weeks. Hepatitis could even be passed by sharing a razor with an infected person.

[Nightstrike]

well doc, treating a genetically engineered virus is a difficult thing to do.
I personally am a conspiracy theorist, I beleive it was made by the US government as a biological weapon..
But most likely it isn't.
My idea for finding a cure for aids is to find out where it originated from.
Now I know the average homosexual supposedly has about 1000 partners in their life.
and it would make sense if the virus got in there that it would spread spread spread..
but something tells me this wasn't from a monkey.
and doc, is it true that Tai Chi and other forms of meditation can accually cure lukimia and other forms of cancer?
P.S, I would much like to get in contact with you to discuss some other things regarding medical illnesses.

[doc]

Biological weapon? Against whom?

It has already been proven to be a simian virus, that crossed over into the human population, much as SARS did.

And Tai Ji doesn't cure cancer. Be careful when thinking that these oriental martial arts are a cure all.

[Maestro]

heh

"Now I know the average homosexual supposedly has about 1000 partners in their life."

thats like some kinda wilt chamberlin type of statistic? who the hell says gays get that much action?

heheheh

this reminds me of how when i was a little kid this punk let me lick his ice cream cone and right afterwards he snatched it away and told me he had aids and now i was infected..

i was like..****, hehe, na i was upset though..stupid punks!

amitabha

[Maestro]

oh ya, something else i wanted to mention in this thread

back when i used to go to church, wed frequently have other pastors and such come and lecture and teach and what not, and wed also sponsor alot of pastors who wanted to do the missionary program

so anyway, there was this one guy that the church as a whole really took to since he was pretty cool, and his lectures were always uplifting and stuff. but this guy, somehow(cant remember) was diagnosed with HIV and i guess he freaked out or something, supposedly he got really into christianity(guess he wasnt before all this) and through dedicated prayer and worship bla bla, months later the guy goes for a routine checkup and the docs told him he had no signs of HIV..

i always thought that was interesting, he was definately adamant about christianity and he was a good pastor..maybe theres something to meditation, i dunno..the human body is capable of alot more then people give credit..

amitabha