Wong Kiew Kit

[doc]

I implore anyone who is considering going on one of these courses not to, even more so if you’re going with the intent to cure an illness such as cancer.

I have a huge problem with this guy's claims that he can cure cancer. In fact, many years ago, he and I had a discussion about his cancer cure claims. We had a running dialog for a while, in the forum ARCHIVE, in which we debated his abilities. He eventually bowed out after he could not properly answer my "medically scientific" questions.

It was comical. And sad. I'll get the ARCHIVE up and running again soon. It's worth reading that part.

[Maria]

Dear Biotic,

While I find your account rather amusing, I've decided to correct some of your "facts". This is mainly for the benefit of any sincere visitors who may get misled by such blatant inaccuracies.

There must have been at least 200 people there

I have taken many courses in Ireland with Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit and have been an assistant on some. I have never seen anywhere near 200 students at a course. In fact, I know that my own sifu, Sifu Joan Browne, has a limit of 50-60 on the courses due to the constraints of venue and restaurant size.

I decided to speak to Joan about leaving ( I was 1/3 into the course) and getting some form of refund, I was not given a refund, instead I was given a repetition of a Chi Kung sequence I had learned on the first day.

I am also very familiar with the running and organising of the courses and know that once a student asks for a refund, provided he asks on the day, his course fee will be returned immediately. It is not the policy of Shaolin Wahnam to ‘baby’ people into learning, especially if they are not interested.

Before the session I noticed there were hundreds of books all stacked up neatly ready to be bought

As mentioned, I help at the courses. There are usually about 50 books, mainly due to students requesting the availability of such beforehand.

I implore anyone who is considering going on one of these courses not to, even more so if you’re going with the intent to cure an illness such as cancer.

Something that saddens me about your post is the fact that you mention ‘Exploiting people is not something I’m into’. With a hassle-free money-back guarantee, regardless of what anyone may claim, it is impossible for any exploitation. Sadly, your post does, however, exploit. It exploits the possible and reasonable uncertainty people considering taking such a course may have.
Since your 'account' of Grandmaster Wong's course is a showcase of inaccurate information, I would in turn implore you not to make such dramatic appeals based on blatant falsehoods.
The true fact of the matter is that thousands of people all over the world get great benefits by daily practicing what Grandmaster Wong and the past Masters have taught. If you are unable, unwilling or undeserving to do so, other people can still decide for themselves by following personal experience rather than misleading gossip.

I have had the opportunity to organise one of these seminars, but I refused to

The true facts of this are that these courses (and I have checked with Sifu Joan on this) are organised by Instructors in various countries who invite Grandmaster Wong to their respective country. Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit has a lot more to do than go around asking people to organise events for him. Having him accept an invitation and teach in a country is a great honour for all of the organisers. By virtue of this fact you were never asked, it is not the policy.


Maria.

[biotics]

I was interested to see what it was all about. Some of the claims he makes about some of his students achieving high standards in say, Iron palm sounded very appealing. I had only been doing Gung Fu for about two years and had only learnt from one teacher. I guess I was just testing the water. Fortunately my teacher was and still is (I’ve moved to a different country) very good so I had someone to compare with.
I’ll write another post about how the seminars work when I have time to find the correspondence. I have had the opportunity to organize one of these seminars but I refused to. Exploiting people isn’t something I’m into. If I had taken part I’d certainly have come into a tidy sum. Not hundreds, but I’m sure reaching into the thousands wouldn’t be unrealistic. It’s a pity as the people I met including Wong Kiew Kit all seemed very friendly. They’re just misguided. I’m sure they’d turn pretty nasty after reading my posts though! Wong Kiew Kit and his followers are helping to reinforce Gung Fu’s reputation as some sort of magical fighting style. However, that doesn’t bother me half as much as the people they’re conning who are genuinely ill.

[doc]

I have to get the Archive running again. There was a lot of classic WKK shit in there...

[onesp1ng]

mmm, first hand experience... thanks for the info. makes one wonder what the old wkk guys that used to post on this site would say in response?

just curious, what motivated you to go in the first place?

[biotics]

I'm sorry I'm a bit late in registering and replying to this very interesting topic. I have been on an “intensive” Chi Kung course with Wong Kiew Kit and one of his underlings Joan Brown in Ireland. It was expensive. Very similar to an experiment Ronald David Laing would have pulled off. There must have been at least two hundred people there so it’s safe to assume the organizers and Wong Kiew Kit are making a mint! The content of the course wasn't anything special. One could quite easily learn these exercises elsewhere for a fraction of the price. After I concluded this I decided to speak to Joan about leaving (I was 1/3 into the course) and getting some form of refund. I was not given a refund; instead I was given a repetition of a Chi Kung sequence I had learnt on the first day. One could learn these techniques out of one of Wong Kiew Kit’s books if you wanted to, although I couldn't count on most people being able to stomach literature that wouldn't look out of place in a Harry Potter novel. Before the session I noticed there were hundreds of books all stacked up neatly ready to be bought. Many bought them. The overall experience was a disappointment and I implore anyone who is considering going on one of these courses not to, even more so if you’re going with the intent to cure an illness such as cancer. The money would be better put towards cancer research than paying through the nose for some simple breathing exercises and being told you could develop telekinesis after six months.
I have also met Marcus Santer. The discussion I had with him revealed quite a lot. I learned that he had been appointed a "Sifu" after around 4 years of learning with Wong Kiew Kit and within those four years he had never touched a weapon. Anyone that has studied kung fu would know that learning a weapon even though it’s highly unlikely you’re going to use one in real life compliments one’s kung fu i.e. for coordination, muscle toning etc. Wong Kiew Kit even makes a point of this in one of his books. He showed me an animal set. I noticed that he had an extremely wide horse stance and his movements had no real crispness or force. It is simply inconceivable that one could become a “Sifu” in just four years. I shall only hint at the arrogance a title implies.
Kind regards
Biotics

[Maestro]

mystery

i dunno about anyone else but for myself there is no mystery

[Bungle]

let's all save up and train with WKK. We can all try and remain objective and we could write one mother of a review...Then we'll solve this mystery once and for all. Some indian take aways buy ready made frozen meals and reheat them! How does that work in your analogy?? Proper skanky anyway..

[dave]

good post and i agree with the vindaloo part

dave

[Beggar Su]

Hairy Monks

He may have trained with Hai Deng, I really don't know, but granting that he did, we also don't know what capacity he trained in. He may have met him 2 times for all we know. Yan Xin has been re-invented a few times now.

Warm hearted and handed hellos and seasonal greetings to all. Just thought I'd throw my two pence/cents worth in - bear with me.

He's no fraud is our WKK - just like the Indian resturant around the corner form me is no fraud. Hey, it may claim to create truely authentic receipies from the Motherlland, lovingly prepared by the skilled and celebrated Indian chef (who noone's heard of).

It may add that the chef gained his foundation in quality food preperation under the guidance of some world famous Indian chef . And our local chef might well have studied with this famous chef for every minute of 10 past lives for all we know - it still doesn't mean he LEARNT and INTERNALISED and UNDERSTOOD THE HEART OF any skills, any recepies or indeed the nature of his masters cooking and character.

The local resturant might go as far as to suggest that their chef finished his studies, continued to hone his skills in various kitchens throughout India - continually evolving and creating the truely unique (yet authentic) dishes until that evolution found it's home in the dishes served in the local resturant on this very day.

And and and (pause for breath), the staff may wear truely authentic Radjastani camel herders dress, and the resturants decor might perfect reflect the secret internal chambers of the Taj Mahal.

Thing is, that over-priced plate of gloopy slop they serve you whatever you order, the one that looks like it'sjust come out rather than is ready to go down (sorry!) is no better or more real than the slop served around the corner for half the price in every other Indian resturant of London. It's no more real either - what the hells real - there's as many styles of Indian cooking as there are people cooking it. Yes there are regional characteristics for sure - there are also characteristics that can be placed with a certain period of time, there are indeed different schools of thought as well which characterise certain styles of cooking some of which are older than others.

But does that make them more real. Is, rather than more 'authentic' or 'real' or 'proper', what people mean to say infact 'hey - my school's teachings can be traced back further than yours (if we trust the sources :-) therefore it's better than yours'??? Now that's real stupid. I'd suggest any 'master' who states his school is better - or another school is bad or not 'real' has just revealed his true character to you and the level of his true knowledge adn heart.

Whilst this food analoge stretched far to thin a while ago, you'll also find the cheaper - less famous local resturants who make no outlandish claims also aren't so deluded that they feel the need to put down other resturants so as to attempt to elevate the stature others attach to them - as they perceive it.

Now if you want authentic Indian food go search for it in logical places, ask the local Indian community and travel, experience, roam and seek with heart then you will indeed catch it eventually - then you can tame it and yourself and become a part of it as it a part of you. But be careful of how truely productive time spent with those who make outlandish claims whilst putting down others really is - what did you really learn from them - a new skill, or some new facts about them for example?/did you really enjoy the experience or were you - by those in charge, by the regular patrons who's self esteem depends on believing their choice IS good/the best, and by all the situational cues such as decor and dress - told to enjoy it and feel it was 'authentic'??

Sorry about that rant, I've finished now. Hope I made some sense. Anyway, one things for sure, give me one of those hot Vindaloo curries from the expensive resturant and when I get outside after paying the bill I can create the clounds and the pressure needed to make it rain on demand.

And that isn't just a load of hot air - honest


P.S. Now where the hells that Shaolin Temple UK and WKK review on the other thread????? We're waiting

P.P.S. the proof of the pudding is in the eating!

How can you tell is a master is real/fake or more appropriately, how can you tell what the heart of a masters teachings are, what his skill and desire to impart them is, and whether the heart of his Gung Fu is a heart yours should beat in time with????

Bexley Leisure Centre - 20th July - BCCMA Britsh San Shou Championship featuring, for the first time, well - a few new UK schools...

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That post brought to you by Master Beggar Su, fifth lineage student of Grand Master Supremely Hairy Monk, world renowned master of his own style and teacher of verbose idiots...

Peace

[arhat]

Hai Deng...

Prajna- I would take all such claims with a grain of salt. Lots of people try and attach themselves to such men in order to gain authenticity, or gain face. Look at all the people who concoct lineages back to Hairy Monk or to Shaolin Temple.

He may have trained with Hai Deng, I really don't know, but granting that he did, we also don't know what capacity he trained in. He may have met him 2 times for all we know. Yan Xin has been re-invented a few times now.

This is similar to the head of the Chanmi association who claims he is a Shaolin disciple of the Great Master Shi Su Xi, amongst other things, and isn't afraid of showing off a picture he has with him either to prove it. Yet, when I asked about Su Xi's most famous disciple, nobody heard of him, and when I described his special abilities one monk rolled his eyes, another politely chuckled, and another outright called him a magician and a trickster.

[Bungle]

yeah i gotta stop putting my self in situations where i need to do this....Right onto my "Doc is a necropedofile" post....

[Lipster]

Lol, retrospective remorse kickin in...

[Bungle]

I kinda feeling bad for starting this whole thread so i apoligise to wahnam students and Wong Kiew Kit for bad mouthing them. I was probaly out of order and i had no basis for it. Doesn't mean that you guys made some good points. I guess no organization is perfect...

[prajna]

Yan Xin

I heard Yan Xin was taught by Hai Deng. Is this true? Were there any other contemporary masters taught by him (inc. monks)?