Topic Twelve: The trademark of the Shaolin name

[PB longfist]

Hey all,

All I can say is that I strongly disagree with the trademarking of Shaolin. Its good to know im not the only one. Anyways, I don't have any political contacts and i am not paricularly powerful in this world (yet), but if I can help in some way by lending a voice, I will. No doubt. Shaolin for everybody.

[zachsan]

you sound like a villain on star trek that came from another dimension to take over our own.

Originally posted by PB longfist
i am not paricularly powerful in this world (yet)

haha, sorry...

[Greenknight2]

I guess I can understand why he would want it trademarked but I mean on a bar of soap or how about a pair of sneakers? But on a martial arts school is a different matter.

[LeiYunFat]

In all the situations that are similar to this one, I would bet on Yongxin. I might not even fight it, depending on the circumstances.

[shaolinstylee]

Well, is this the first international suite? If it is, it could send an interesting president.

[LeiYunFat]

Stylee, your post count is 1337!

l337, stylee is teh pwnzor.

[shaolinstylee]

Right, thanks, I forgot about that German thing. I wonder if he'll go after Shaolin Brand here in the US, of if it'll be safe because it doesn't have the temple tag....

[LeiYunFat]

Yongxin would sue McDonalds for making all the American monks fat.

Shaolin has to keep an image, you know.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

As always, a really interesting topic. What's even more interesting is the way it's being presented and what will be more interesting again is how ShiYongXin plans to market his bid. I think I have a fair understanding of where he's comming from but I think we all think the same of our own interperatations.
I really think it's going to come down a case of seperate and define ( which explains alot of his actions and this sherrif label he's seemed to have picked up), and baby and bath water ( particularly with regard to the schools and dojos selling the last remnans of this or that ) comes to mind somewhere in the equation aswell. Bearing in mind that preserving shaolin's gongfu as part of shaolin buddhism is a deep seated goal of his own, ShiYongXin would have to have done a huge amount of homework to market it effectively and have the revival and apparent flourish the man is obviously looking for . It's been a long road back since the great revoloution and possibily even earlier. I'm sure he has a plan he trusts will work and being his commitment, I just wish him and shaolin sincere luck and generous swing of the pendulum.
Speaking of US supreme court case precedents though, I can see a few loop holes to exploit myself so it'll be interesting to see who finds what .
I don't disaggree with the "temple " tack to the application and obviously that would have more merit . He definately has his work cut out for him though and knowing there's only so much of the neccessary explaination of the differences in the products and how sharing the moniker comprimises the market of that product he's trying to define ( if first in first served is adhere to as in the precedent ) a court is going to buy and dual meaninged words and terms ( either literally or implicatively ) and plaintiff : defendant association is a nice spin to consider aswell. Then Imo it comes back to defining what is deemed traditional and those neccessary prc guanxi modifications the temple has seen and why ShiYongXin is playing with the syllabus there and why there's so much good ( however sporadic) traditional teaching in the US . Imo, it's fairly obvious in gong fus perpetuation that these traditional form and skill holders have the same objective but are committed to different marketing methods for whatever host of reason you choose ( lack of faith in each other's a humourous overture) .
For the future though, a seperate wushu/shaolin curriculum may be the most viable option for a time and no doubt the gongfu comming out of temple , given the traditional reintroduction phasing in at the moment, is on the change card aswell.
How ever it does turn out though , like everyone else I'll be holding my breath for the outcome aswell. Nice can of worms you have there Doc and thx for the thread.

Blooming Tianshi Lotus

[shaolinstylee]

Another thing that would be interesting... would be to call something in an English speaking country the small forest temple, or young forest temple....


what the hell did you just say?

What Supreme Court case?

What does meaninged mean?

Then Imo it comes back to defining what is deemed traditional

What does traditional as opposed to contemporary have to do with this?

a seperate wushu/shaolin curriculum may be the most viable option for a time and no doubt the gongfu comming out of temple

What does this have to do with possible proceedings on someone calling themselves the shaolin temple... very little will be placed on what they teach I think..... especially when there is so many itterations of Shaolin gong fu...


I don't even know if I pulled that apart right.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

Firstly, the traditional aspect is relevant because by defining that from the buddhist perspective that ShiYongXin possibly plans to present it from , as opposed to what the mcdojos or non affliated ( as in never were ) schools, it opens a realm of whole new skills that only come from understanding certain concepts contained ( though not neccessarily exclusively) in shaolin buddhism. By this, I mainly refer to internal stuff and forms etc that rely on an understanding of those concepts . I'm sure you'll find beef in that statement , but I'm just going to be thankful that it's someone elses to present.

By highlighting and seperating the differences , it proves that we're dealing with 2 different products to begin with and the folks using the name to imply the same thing being offered , is just not the case. As a result of their use of the term, it confuses ppl with what the product is and takes the market from shaolin under terms of public duress.
I don't want to get to get too buddhist in my reply here , so I think I'll keep it brief.

As for the wushu / shaolin curriculum , someone already queried what was being taught in terms of gongfu at the temple as a factor in a case of allowing use of the shaolin name elsewhere. That would make it extremely relevant to the case. Alot of the true traditional stuff is not at the temple any more , however that said, their are schools and temples in the US sanctioned by ShiYongXin who are acting on the temples behalf. It's been a loong history battle for shaolin to keep itself alive and I believe that once their are certain measures in place to afford shaolin the protection to come back out of the closet at home with the skills the prc negotiated so sternly to repress as parameter for shaolin to operate at all, down to the inclusion of wushu , that shaolin gongfu will experience a revival of those more traditional forms not so apparent there at present.

What they teach Stylee is the product. I think it has a lot more to do with it than ppl might realise. And those iterations are still shaolin gongfu you think. Just the fact of those 2 terms together implies something a little more..........like affiliations for starters.

As for the Supreme precedences though ... .... ( and don't be affraid to take some lateral thought on it ) how about you tell me???



BL

[plumflower_pm]

to further that analogy: Even if your last name IS McDonald, and your hamburgers have identical ingredients, you'll pay. (regardless of whether or not you once worked at a McDs) Historical ownership takes precedence.

[plumflower_pm]

I searched for info about that suit as I remember it too... couldn't find anything but here's a list of things McDonalds is currently or has recently been sued for. Yeah, it's OT, and no, you probably don't need to know this, but here it is anyway.

not hiring an extremely obese guy
failing to tell people about trans-fat content in food
french fries not vegetarian
tough bagel
hot coffee
guy gets fat
woman receives a McBeating from two employees in the McParking lot
alleged rat head found in happy meal
actor who plays Ronald McDonald sues for unfair labor practices, refuses to return costume
Venezuela sues for failure to pay taxes

[blooming tianshi lotus]

It has nothing to do with products, or what is taught.

.

Actually in the "Christian sience" case, and the courts closing comments, they did say

"Generic names are regarded by the law as free for all to use. They are in the public domain. ***To grant an exclusive right to one firm of use of the generic name of a product would have to be equivilent to creating a monopoly in that particular product, something that the trademark laws were never intended to accomplish."

I'm still begging to differ there but nicely nueturalized anyway.

The product of shaolin though, as we are all aware , is centred on reliant on principals of buddhism as it's distinguishing aspect. This is what makes it so seperate to Mcjos. It's a complicated argument and not really mine to have .

cheers nonetheless

[LeiYunFat]

Yongxin would probably deem that comment unsuitable for his visions of the new Shaolin Temple, seeing as how he has ignored it.

As for the people that call themselves Shaolin; it's for the attachments that come with it. If you are any sort of Shaolin Temple, people will come to you like you were the original. It was pretty bulletproof, too-- till now. People probably didn't expect the real original (along with a bunch of monks) to come knocking at their temple doors demanding reparations.