newbie- the basics (beginning training concepts)

[shaolinstylee]

most power starts in the feet and legs, then the torso, then the shoulders neck/head. i know you will correct me if im wrong.

I think of it as a lot of power comes from the legs, then gets amplified by the waist....

then you need to be strong enough to hold on and strike effectively.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

yeah I don't think it's accurate to say there is no stomach work in Shaolin...we just got this chair contraption that mimics the water container thing...now I have a weird ridge.

I think the chi belly thing is just an excuse for people who have slacked off.

You know..... I hate this whole connotation. It appears that ppl seem to have this deluded opinion that unless a person is not ripped and loaded with excessive lean muscle that they're not skilled and are therefore martially incompetant. Considering that in cma, where performance cmas aside, martial relates to defence ( as opposed to say muay thai where as now days mostly an offencive ring art where you need to strike first ( committing yourself to a cma vulnerable defence set IMO ) and the idea is to be able to wrap it up quickly and effectively Cardio superstarred performance becomes redundant to prowess ( and I'm fairly sure Gene Ching from www.kungfumagazine.com wrote a great article last yr or the one before describing something along the same lines ) and forms to keep your skills or tech knowlege and apps fresh are still effective practiced slowly , particularly when you already did your yards yrs back and have that strong base . You get to a point of knowledge where your tech skills are enough all on their own and body conditioning is a side persuit...... I guess that explains why these old masters can still kick all our as*es and they are the masters and we are not

BL

[LeiYunFat]

I guess that explains why these old masters can still kick all our as*es and they are the masters and we are not

BL

Yes I am. Check the avatar. *puts fist throuch wooden plank*

Yeah right I wish.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

[QUOTE=LeiYunFat]. *puts fist throuch wooden plank*

QUOTE]

mmmm hmmm ............ that's what a master does ha ????

[doc]

and the idea is to be able to wrap it up quickly and effectively Cardio superstarred performance becomes redundant to prowess ( and I'm fairly sure Gene Ching from www.kungfumagazine.com wrote a great article last yr or the one before describing something along the same lines ) and forms to keep your skills or tech knowlege and apps fresh are still effective practiced slowly , particularly when you already did your yards yrs back and have that strong base

I'm gonna have to seriously disagree. There have been many famous boxing fights, whereby the person with the better cardiovascular training (and endurance) outlasted, tired, and eventually wiped out his competition. In competifive martial arts, and in Muay Thai (I've watched a bunch of those), you'll find similar results. The guy that's in better shape can work to exhaust his opponent; regardless of how good his prowess is, if he's tired and barely able to continue, he ain't gonna be able to perform.

You need some combination of both.

Since I've been ill, my conditioning has really deteriorated, along with what little prowess I've had. You can't develop skill, and maintain it, without conditioning. And good health.

[LeiYunFat]

For instance, I used to be able to swim 500 meters in >8 minutes. Fast forward three years, and I can do it in 15 or so.

I am kinda bitter.

[shaolinstylee]

I'd have to agree with doc... unless the matchup is rediculously lopsided, the better conditioned athlete will win... thats why it is called gung fu.

[LeiYunFat]

Did BL say they wouldn't? I am not really clear on what she said but she should know that, being probably one of the best conditioned out of all of us. Not to mention she has bouts more often than we.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

I'm gonna have to seriously disagree. There have been many famous boxing fights, whereby the person with the better cardiovascular training (and endurance) outlasted, tired, and eventually wiped out his competition. In competifive martial arts, and in Muay Thai (I've watched a bunch of those), you'll find similar results. The guy that's in better shape can work to exhaust his opponent; regardless of how good his prowess is, if he's tired and barely able to continue, he ain't gonna be able to perform.

You need some combination of both.

Since I've been ill, my conditioning has really deteriorated, along with what little prowess I've had. You can't develop skill, and maintain it, without conditioning. And good health.

No........ good health ( and when you relate it to chi ) is definately sometjing you want to cultivate and will IMO dictate your performance and abilty to apply your skill and awareness to do it with efficacy.........still optimally without cardio being an issue. It's no secret that generally Muay thai and mma training are going to make you puke if you're out of cardio condtion, but then, as we see them today, they are sporting events and sahould never never be confused with out of ring defence. I sparred a 90 + kg muay thai instructor of 14 + yrs history last training sesh and while compartively my muay thai sucked to the point of condolence, I can assure you that his defence was not intimdating and certainly nothing I'd want to trade for the combat knowlege I have of my own. He may have the upper hand on cardio ( but considering last nights workout ........ I think NOT !!!!! ) but combat principals as a whole, it really doesn't matter.

Let me just go into that for a moment. For example, in muay thai , an outside guard brush block doesn't even exist ( and bear with me and think sthn shaolin / xing yi / elemental style defence ) ( ....and now I get why btw ) but instead they have a defence where the same side hand as attack side parries inward follwed by an oppposite arm to neck clamp and pull down to give perfect tension delivery to a knee. It's a great technique, but with good feet and speed, it is not competitive in most players when defended with the above and then for a follow up, using something like a Wing Chun / chin na or even aikdo / jutsu type lock and pressure point strike. But that only usually happens in the real world . If you have any idea of the points that lay around that region and particularly on their right , I'm sure you'll understand when I say that the fight should be over fairly quickly. He's not going to exhaust me, because I have no intention of even raising a sweat. And before we all start ranting , just rember, that I have done this in real life many may times against men and obviously 99% of them wre bigger and some armed with intent to kill. I also practiced / reaffirmed that theory when I did personal protection and body guard defence systems as part of my security guard training against men 7 ft and somewhat martially endowed and I hate to be the one to say it Rich, but a good tech executed clinically, just takes care of itself. ........... that's why we have techniques..because they work. If they don't then why the bejeeze does it become so important to know them and practice form ???? Because it matters is why and then it just becomes a matter of being aware enough of your environment ( including anticipating your opponents next move ) ( and don't worry because I'm likely going to die any day now as someone kindly proves me wrong ) to pull off your timing and delivery. If I'm concentrating or unfettered, cardio or not , I'm as confident as I'll likely ever be.

And on the illness, go do some qigong and meditate ha

Tianshi Lotus

[LeiYunFat]

Okay so you are a model/bodyguard/prizefighter/streetfighter?

You're the renaissance woman if there ever was one.

And yeah, I agree about the techniques and ring-apps. You talking about Muay Thai out-of-ring apps reminded me of my cousin who took Chinese kung fu and tried Muay Thai. They kicked him out because he kept using Chin'na.

[blooming tianshi lotus]

Renaisance ha???? Lol.don't be fooled.....I'm just a chick really.


Actually as it turns out, I got too busy to take a new contract this time home in lieu of training and travel planning jazz . Lol...if you new how good it was looking at times at the moment, that's kinda sad really........... ...... ( sighs ) ...Ahh ...good old westen life ............

As for being kicked out, I'm probably on the way there myself. I'm training with a MT heavy weight title holder at the moment and he's teeing up private fights and spars and jazz for me in free for all / any style will do contest so he can assess how I stack up against his muay thai commers, but franlkly, he has the shits and tells me my MT sucks..... which is why I see him in the place.

I just decided to be available for cruise ship work from the month after next onwards for 6 - 9 or so mth contracts and then it's on to Thailand to study with some of their local legends. I don't think I'm going to win any prizes before I go but I'll no doubt come back to it when I get I home next. Love to stay and humour the guy, but yonder calls and unless he gives me reason to hang about just now , I'm answering. Lotta a world to see and only one life to remember it. lol..........

Glad you're hearing me

Blooming Lotus

[blooming tianshi lotus]

I'm gonna have to seriously disagree. There have been many famous boxing fights, whereby the person with the better cardiovascular training (and endurance) outlasted, tired, and eventually wiped out his competition. In competifive martial arts, and in Muay Thai (I've watched a bunch of those), you'll find similar results. The guy that's in better shape can work to exhaust his opponent; regardless of how good his prowess is, if he's tired and barely able to continue, he ain't gonna be able to perform.

You need some combination of both.

Since I've been ill, my conditioning has really deteriorated, along with what little prowess I've had. You can't develop skill, and maintain it, without conditioning. And good health.

I thought about this again last night , or rather it just dawned on me ( ) that you're a buddhist yourself ................ and satori in your defence then Rich ?????

[doc]

HUH? Satori? Buddhist????

[blooming tianshi lotus]

Guess I was thinking of some one else