Shi Yan Ming: More commentary

[mortal]

maestro

Aren't you getting a little worked up over nothing? You start talking like a punk so fast. I just wonder what motivates it.

All you see is the benefits of traditional training because that is what is important to you. Fighting, fighting fighting. You need to look past that towards developing physical attributes. That is what wushu does. You keep mentioning flipping all over the place. There might only be one flip in a whole form. If that was true I would think it was gay too.

Most traditional schools I see aren't very good. I think most of you would agree.
In real wushu or traditional training you do hundreds of kicks, jumps and stances daily. The wushu community doesn't consist of all natural super athletes. Those attributes are developed over years. All the fancy wushu moves take a great deal of explosive power and practice. Many traditional guys lack.

For the record I take both wingchun and wushu at the same time for many years. And I'm pretty damn good at both.

My perfect martial arts curriculim would be a combination of

1 wushu- to develop your athetisim and cardio to something higher than it currently is.
2 sparring- sticky hands, wingchun basics. to develop better reflexes and fast twitch muscle. Also to be able to react spotaneusly to random attacks(most school lack this).
3 groundfighiting- be able to defend against it. To learn submissions.

Now this currculim is good for me because I want to be more well rounded in all aspects. But it isn't for everyone. Some people have no interest in actually learning fighting. They just like the flashy moves. I see no reason to think these people can't be devoted or shouldn't be respected.

Other people just like fighting.

Yet others walk around with their gay tradional sleevless outfits and potbellies at tourneys saying that their high stanced, slow, no power form, is traditional. Sitting around eating chees fries making fun of wushu guys.

Being able to fight doesn't make you a good martial artist. I know people that were great street fighters, with big names in Brooklyn that never trained a day in their lives. Just good natural genetics. But they lack the disipline and dedication to train in any martial art.

My point is kungfu training takes devotion. I respect anyone who is devoted in their gungfu. Even if their gungfu is playing tennis.

Did anyone see Andre Agassi last night? Might not be a good fighter but his gungfu is higher then most.

[zachsan]

nice post, mortal.

no offense to anyone - and this might be the wrong thing to say in a MA related forum - but in my opinion, there's something very wrong with people who devote hours a week to learning how to fight, unless their jobs demand it.

most fights are pretty simple. you get into an argument with your friend or a punk you don't like, you take some swings, and you walk away with a black eye or a broken nose. maybe your pride is hurt a little, too. big deal, that's life.

now i understand that you don't want your pride hurt, and you don't want your nose broken, either. so there's nothing wrong with picking up a few tricks to avoid that. and hey, maybe you can even look cool in the process. but seriously, to devote hours a week to that? either you get into way too many fights (and they're not all that hard to avoid), or in reality you're terrified of the idea of a simple fistfight. either way, you need to either calm the **** down or toughen up, depending, rather than make it worse by turning fighting into your obsession.

of course, the common rationalization is that you're not doing it to learn how to win a simple fistfight, you're doing it for "self-defense". but you're not doing it for self-defense. when you're trying not to get raped, protecting your girlfriend or kid, or trying not to get beaten to death by a gang... that's self-defense. and there are many things that will get this done for you much more quickly, safely, efficiently and inexpensively than years of training in any dojo.

so the moral of the story is, if your only reason for training is to learn how to fight, stop, and ask yourself why. and if it's not, don't judge styles based solely on how they approach the subject of fighting. unfortunately, this is what 90% of MA-related conversation is, which is (partly) why much of the world of MA is bullshit.

[Maestro]

"maestro

Aren't you getting a little worked up over nothing? You start talking like a punk so fast. I just wonder what motivates it."

that was my first post in this thread, i dont know how i come off as 'worked up" maybe its the way you invision me, but i assure you im happy as a clam.

"All you see is the benefits of traditional training because that is what is important to you. Fighting, fighting fighting. You need to look past that towards developing physical attributes"

this is the whole deal, traditional training is meant to develope all of the important physical attributes that are beneficial towards a individuals health, and combat prowess. your teachers shouldnt have to tell you that you need to drill your kicks and punches and stances. they shouldnt have to tell you to run 5 miles every couple days or to train standing post or do hard qi gong for 2 hours a day. none of that is part of the learning process, but if your not an idiot, it should become evident after having trained in a CMA that the things listed above are essential to developeing your body further in the arts.

there is only so much time in a class to cover the materials neccesary, every sifu emphasises something different, but when it comes to running a class they dont have time to hold your hand and baby you around the room drilling you with kicks/punches and stance work which is the foundation of shaolin technique. it should be obvious to all those but fools that these things are important and require much more time to develope fully then 2-3 hour classes a couple times a week.

"Most traditional schools I see aren't very good. I think most of you would agree.
In real wushu or traditional training you do hundreds of kicks, jumps and stances daily. The wushu community doesn't consist of all natural super athletes. Those attributes are developed over years. All the fancy wushu moves take a great deal of explosive power and practice. Many traditional guys lack."

for one, if you believe there is any power behind the speed of the wushu players, you obviously do not understand power in chinese martial arts. they are fast yes, but if the energy isnt there, theres nothing explosive about it. wushu artists power is an illusion. no focus is given to structure, neither is there any paid to yin/yang energy which is the base of shaolin power generation.

about traditional schools most i have seen japanese and chinese are very dissapointing. but that means little about traditional training methods. if you understood what it is to be a traditional CMA you would know what has to be done, instead of having to study something like wushu for "physical attributes" or cardio and whatever else you want to pull out of your ass.

"Being able to fight doesn't make you a good martial artist."

in CMA to attain the best health benefits, as in the best mental, physical and emotional benefits, you must train as if your life were at stake or for combat purposes. if this is done you not only will elevate yourself to a higher level, but you will also be capable of many other such things as the confidence and self discipline are fundamental attributes of a healthy mind/body. again even thoug h my words are clear it obviosly isnt good enough for you people, im not saying you need to have fighting in your mind day in and day out, im not even saying you have to fight at all, but if you train with intent of being the best possible fighter via the methods that are being transmitted, your skills will progress by leaps and bounds.

"no offense to anyone - and this might be the wrong thing to say in a MA related forum - but in my opinion, there's something very wrong with people who devote hours a week to learning how to fight, unless their jobs demand it.

thats your oppinion, the fact that your whole post is dedicated to this is ridiculous because your level of experience with this topic is obviously limited, so is your foresight into the world we live in where fighting is just about 90% of what most people do, in one way or another.

i think if you spent more time training as you did writeing bullshit on this forum, youd be alot better off, and so would we because we wouldnt have to read all the bullshit that floods this forum, which you just attribute to daily.

[dogchow108]

ok, now, everyone back off before Maestro kicks all our asses. combined.


really.



He's that hardcore.

[mortal]

I actually think this thread is becoming more interesting with every post.

Good posts all around. Even Maestro! Just joking.

I have certain friends that love the wingchun I do and others that love the wushu. I am the only one who loves both because I know why each art is important. I understand the reason behind the training. Without knowing the underlying reasons it is easy to form misconceptions about why people do certain moves when training. Some people see wushu and ask why all the jumping kicks and low stances. Others look at wingchun and say why all the chisau. Sometimes the reasons are obvious, sometimes their not.

As martial artists we should embrace wushu because it isn't fighting. Its not trying to be. The real threat to traditional arts is these so called traditional schools who teach a watered down version of the orignal styles they are supposed to represent. Reason being is the sifu usually thinks he is a lot better then he is. This happens many times in wingchun. Some people confuse understanding the art with applying it spontaneusly under extreme circumstances.
One day this guy came to my wingchun class. Turns out he used to train there for a while. So he kept showing us all these 2 man drills. At one point you would have thought he was teaching the class since many people were new. Then Sifu made us spar and I just effortlessly hit and controlled him. I don't think he got in once. My point many so called sifu think they are good enough to teach just because they understand the art mentally. But if you don't have the physical side you are missing something. That is where wushu training comes in. It develops the physical side so you could do what your thinking at will with no effort.

[zachsan]

...your foresight into the world we live in where fighting is just about 90% of what most people do, in one way or another.

see, this is my point. if you live in a world where "fighting is just about 90% of what most people do", you've got problems. and you're right, i (thankfully) have no experience whatsoever being that crazy. excuse me, "hardcore".

[LeiYunFat]

I feel so outta my element, I ain't even gonna try to pick sides anymore.

[Maestro]

lol, i am that hardcore, and i can beat most of your asses, espcially mortal.\

"That is where wushu training comes in. It develops the physical side so you could do what your thinking at will with no effort."

this is utter bullshit aswell, i wanted to say. on the other hand, if it works for you personally then whatever do it, but by no means does this have anything to do with what we are discussing, this is mortals personal way of training and has no bearing on the subject of wushu sucking big dick, because it does. and the results he is talking about make me laugh, i guess in the past before the seventies chinese masters were all screwed because they had no wushu to train in. god bless mortal for his wisdom though.

[mortal]

maestro

I think we just need to spar then go for Taco bell and have an intelligent discussion about training. Don't worry I'll take it easy on you.
Since that can't happen anytime soon lets learn to play nice. I agree with many things you have to say about kungfu. I just want you to have an open mind with wushu training.

The bottom line is we all love training. More than I could say for most of my friends. They just think I talk about it way too much.

Did I mention this is my new wushu school www.nycwushu.com.

[LeiYunFat]

What happened to Yan Ming's?

[mortal]

A brief history of my training.

1.1999-2001 Yanmings--I left due to politics and amitabha nerds. I never really learned anything off of him directly. Trained level 2 for 2 years he only taught one class. Also the wushu I learned here was sloppy and incomplete.

2.2001-2003 Hengxins--Had a controlling girlfriend, who had it in for me. Thought she was the master. Too many rules check the site if you don't believe. Got in trouble for teaching a large class of kids in queens. Left with most of the senior students at the same time.

3.2003-present Sifu Grados

4.2004 Li Peng--Taught me a great deal of traditonal. Had to leave due to a job change to LongIsland. Always felt like he resented us because we got good with other masters before him. He would say existing students were better then us when it clearly wasn't the case. Now he is trying to be an action film star. Something he always made fun of Yanming about.

5. Grand Master Zhang Yuan-- He is located near my house in Brooklyn. Have a good connection with him. Many times we are the only two in class. Learned half the Baji form in under a month. He is the only master I have trained under that doesn't have a big ego. Pretty funny since I trained with all monks before him.

For the record I was a truly devoted student at every one of these schools when I was there. Training as much as 5 times a week.

How is that for long winded?

[zachsan]

not very, actually.

[Maestro]

lolo's ok mortal, you can take it easy on me, ill try and slow my small golden bell qi gong down so maybe i wont drop you with the first strike.

and..i hate taco bell, just add water for the meat just doesnt sound right, plus there was an incident with cockroaches....

as for the nycwushu, imo the videos were very unimpressive, those chinks were skinnyer then all hell and they were still way slow, and the point of wushu is to be fast and full of flash and they couldnt even seem to get those right. the only one i might fear on the street was the girl with the chain whips

only "mpressive" wushu ive seen came outta PRC or shaolin temple, even then its very annoying to watch

[dogchow108]

This is funny. i remember last time Maestro and i said anything to each other on this forum, it was him getting his panties up in a bunch because i said that most of the good fighters i know dont sit with a thumb up their asses telling ppl on the internet that they've never met why one can kick the other's ass.

You know, mortal, i'm sure you're an awesome fighter. so why not take urself to the next lvl? go to www.bullshido.com and challenge someone there who mildly disagrees with what you think. There you will find all the testosterone that you can handle, and plus some. I'm sure that someone there lives near you. Train up, stud- they tape the matches .

[mortal]

dogchow108

" You know, mortal, i'm sure you're an awesome fighter. so why not take urself to the next lvl? go to www.bullshido.com and challenge someone there who mildly disagrees with what you think. There you will find all the testosterone that you can handle, and plus some. I'm sure that someone there lives near you. Train up, stud- they tape the matches."

I spar high level guys from all styles in my wingchun school all the time. I don't really feel the need to prove anything with bullshido guys. If they come into the school I will spar them or anyone no problem. My Sifu thinks I'm too wild so he lets other guys spar first. Then me later. If I went around sparring people I mildly disagree with I wouldn't have time to eat and sleep. lol I fought a little bit growing up and always took care of business. That is good enough for me.