TCM and western medicine

[zachsan]

well dao, just wait til the lawyers get to you, they will sooner or later. then see what happens to the insurance prices.

[daodejing]

Problem, is the lawyers already do come after us. You have no idea how many patients have come on to their acupunturist, gotten turned down, and for spite filed a baseless sexual harassment lawsuit against the practitioner only to have the case dismissed in court.

Its hard for a competent practitioner to actually damage a patient to the extent that there is a legitamate malpractice claim. It rareley ever happens. This is the major reason our malpractice insurance rates are so low. The majority of malpractice suits that do get filed against acupuncturists are filed by people who beleive they've been touched innappropriately. The majority of those cases are thrown out in court when the court realizes that there was nothing innappropriate about the practitiioners actions. Many people in the US are just so ****ed up and uncomfortable with their bodies, and intimacy in general that its common for people to mentally fabricate things because they had a past history of personal violation.

[agreenknight]

On a science show, they were showing how they were going to put medicine into vegetables. Just curious do you grow your own herbs?

[zachsan]

well i'm willing to bet that medical doctors got a fair number of those lawsuits too, they just tend to be overshadowed by the legitimate medical malpractice claims.

the thing about alternative medicine is that the potential damage is not usually going to be the result of mis-prescribing something, since most of these herbs are available off the counter anyway, but is more likely to happen because the person is foregoing conventional treatments in favor of alternative treatments.

you could argue that this really isn't the fault of the practitioner, and it's up the patient, and i would agree with you... but at the same time, you can't really deny that many (not all) alternative practitioners discourage their patients from employing conventional medicine either actively or by making inaccurate generalizations about conventional medicine that their patients subscribe to, like "they're just after your money and they don't care about your true health", etc.

anyway, the real question at hand is, could lawyers conceivably take advantage of this argument and turn it into another way for them to make money? i'm not sure myself... but no one's ever gotten rich by underestimating lawyers. the latest hot class-action property at the moment is fast food - and i think that when they're finished frying mcdonald's they'll be looking for dessert...

[daodejing]

Zach, in the state of california, where licensed acupuncturists are legally considered primary care providers, we are legally required to refer out. If we diagnose a patient with moderate to severe heart problems, we also have to refer them to a cardiologist. If we know a patient has a condition which can manifest with tumours, we have to refer them to an oncologist.

They don't have to go, but we write in our treatment notes the date we referred them and the doctor whose name and number we gave.

I hope that makes you feel better.

Greenthumb, no with the exception of a rosemary plant, I do not grow my own herbs. I live in L.A., and its a bit hard to maintain a healthy medicinal garden.

[agreenknight]

One way to have some protection against lawyers is to have prepaid legal service. Basically, you pay so much per month to be a member and they will give you a certain amount of legal services. I would hope having the sticker on the door would help discourage such a thing. So what is it used for in california?

[daodejing]

Malpractice insurance is what you need for practicing medicine. I don't know anything about these prepaid legal services stuff, but unless it comes with malpractice insurance, its a moot point.

[agreenknight]

Not all legal matters are about malpractice though. Someone stubs their toe on your building you could be liable. Stranger things have happened. I'm inclined to agree, I wouldn't understimate lawyers.

[doc]

You don't get medical malpractice insurance with these prepaid legal services. The prepaid stuff is basically for your average consumer, to get help with basic legal needs. If you wanted to be cynical about it, it's a way of having lawyers ensnare potential future litigants; if one of their prepaid people get injured in a car accident, well, of course they're going to go to their "prepaid lawyer", who stands to make mucho bucks on any potential settlement.

Don't underestimate the legal profession. Litigation has become one of the US's largest businesses. Which, is terribly unfortunate.

[zachsan]

not necessarily. it's how i get paid to talk on this forum all day.

[agreenknight]

Doc, when someone ran into me I got two mail things from lawyers talking about how I could go to them for compensation for my injuries,.... Not trying to be cynical.

[doc]

Hey, it's how they make their living. Can't blame them. But when you compare other countrie's legal systems compared to the US with respect to these things, it's pretty sad.

[agreenknight]

Well, anyone can blame anyone for anything, isn't that what lawsuits get filed for? Don't get me wrong, it's better than people fighting it out, or someone getting hurt or killed over issues. Not trying to be cynical, but I sometimes am satiristic. I guess what i'm trying to say is, one is either part of the problem, or is part of the solution. I don't really blame lawyers, because one person can give the rest a bad name.

[daodejing]

Let's not blame anyone.... We're usually responsible for our own mistakes. Can we all just admit that we're neither the problem or the solution, and that we're all just part of the magical insanity we call the human race?

Incidentally, though he didn't say anything about it, I'm willing to bet Doc loves the fact that california TCM practitioners are legally responsible for referring appropriate patients to appropriate westen medical specialists. I'll bet it makes him feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[zachsan]

Originally posted by daodejing
Let's not blame anyone.... We're usually responsible for our own mistakes. Can we all just admit that we're neither the problem or the solution, and that we're all just part of the magical insanity we call the human race?

lol, no way in hell my friend. but we can get drunk and play rock and roll music.

Incidentally, though he didn't say anything about it, I'm willing to bet Doc loves the fact that california TCM practitioners are legally responsible for referring appropriate patients to appropriate westen medical specialists. I'll bet it makes him feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

that's just the damp heat.