Grinding Joints and Glucosamine

[Jay]

Hi,

The subject of shoulder problems has been touch on here already. I have a few problems also with my collar bone and shoulders.

Ive been doing Muay Thai for 3 or 4 years. And have had a long break since. Ive now recently got back into it after a year of Shaolin training.

Ive notice now my shoulders click something crazy. When I throw a left hook, it actually feels like the ball is slipping out of the socket a bit. (on both shoulders)

And also, where my Collar Bone (clavicle??) joins my sternum (??) , when I rotate my shoulder, and also when throwing hooks, there is a nasty grinding crunching noise..

im getting really worried about this. i can just picture my collar bone shooting out of my chest when i land a nice hook on someone..

ive been told taking glucosamine can help these problems? in the repair of cartilidge (sp?)

is there anything i can do to prevent further damage to these joints?

im 23 years old, and would have thought my joints wouldnt start degrading till alot later in life..

thanks for any advice

[doc]

I'll get to this. Don't let me forget.

[daodejing]

I've been getting alot of popping noises in my shoulder and left knee as well, no grinding and no pain. Just popping and cracking. Doc, we need help.

[Premier]

Yah same here Doc. My left knee keeps popping whenever I do squats. Help!!

[Aaron]

"Yah same here Doc. My left knee keeps popping whenever I do squats. Help!!"

with the squats make sure not to lower you thighs past your knees, that could be causing unnecessary stress on the knee, might be related to the popping.

Anyway , I am also curious to hear doc's advice on the joint problems.

[doc]

Well the fact that you're 23 years old is advantageous in more ways than one. More than likely, the sensations that you are getting in your joints have more to do with synovial fluid, tendons, and ligaments, than any sort of cartilaginous damage from "wear and tear", or arthritis. I suggest that you all read the post in the Doc's Hospital section, under Knee injuries. I've discussed this all at length in there, especially for you guys that have squat problems (be careful doing those: the knee was not designed to lift heavy objects, when it is in a flexed state).

The clicking that you get at your sternoclavicular joint may be due to laxity at that joint. Or, some minor damage that occurred there at some time in the past. What you feel in your shoulders, was not described in the excellent section, again in this forum, under Shoulder Injuries, because, I never got around to writing about it. I will, one day. Things just keep on piling up. And piling up. The sensations that you get in your shoulders might be due to rotator cuff injury; the small muscles that make up the rotator cuff can tear, leading to pain and a feeling of laxity. More than likely, again, this is probably not due to any sort of cartilaginous damage, though, some coexistant tears of the cartilage might be present. The feeling of laxity is more likely due to muscle stretching or tears of the rotator cuff and quite possibly some of the surrounding musculature; you might be subluxing the joint when you throw these punches. (A subluxation is when the joint moves out of alignment, without becoming separated, a dislocation is when the joint surfaces separate, and the joint becomes dysfunctional). These things can occur when we "over do it", which, we all tend to do.

A qualified physician's evaluation, and possibly, MRI, will lead to your diagnosis. But, assuming that you've got lax and subluxing joints, glucosamine is not really the answer. True, for those people with cartilaginous damage, there is some evidence, not all of it scientific, that leads people to believe that glucosamine is good for this sort of thing. But, it will do nothing for subluxation of joints. Or, for tears and strains of the rotator cuff, or other ligamentous structures surrounding other joints.

The best treatment for these things, is time and physical therapy. For those who have rotator cuff tears, it's presently felt that, in the young, which you are, surgery is optimal for therapy. In the older, which I am, physical therapy seems to work best; all depending, of course, on how severe the damage is. Once the joint itself is repaired, if it is repairable, rest, and a slow build up of muscle exercises around the joint area, is helpful. Tightening up the surrounding musculature of the affected joint leads to a strengthening of the joint on the whole, and a decrease in future subluxations.

Oh and as for the knee squats, lifting weights (weights means your bodies also) when the knee is flexed to the point where the thigh is below the knee, is orthopedically suicidal. Considering the structure of the knee, undue stress is placed upon the knee joint when the knee is flexed at 90 degrees. In fact, it is best to not do squats with the thigh at less than a 45 degree angle to the floor.

I'll get that shoulder thing done soon. Remind me.

[Jay]

Thanks for that!! Nice to know whats going on in my body..

I actually fractured my left collar bone when i was younger. This one grinds alot more than the right hand side.
I should have mentioned that in my original post.

Glad to hear to probably wont benefit from Glucosamine, as that stuff is expensive.

[doc]

Well, if the fracture extended into the joint area, then, it's very possible that you have some degree of arthritis, which is causing that sensation.

Glucosamine probably won't help that either.

[Jay]

Cheers for you info...!!

im gonna see how it goes, and maybe go to a physio if it starts to hurt then..

thanks very much!!