Lineage Research Sources

[Mike Evans]

Hey Everybody.

I have been doing some research on my system, it's forms, and lineage. Due to some translation problems (Chinese -> Japanese -> Spanish -> English), many of the names and terms have been corrupted. While things like the names of forms and such I hav been able to figure out, I am very interested in further tracing our lineage. Does anyone have any info on resources in / around China that I could start with? So far I've gone back to the 17oo's but that is all based on legends and stories of the system. Is there any way to get proof (ie birth records, census info, etc.)?

Thanks for any help you can offer!

[zachsan]

i think you will find that the chinese weren't the most meticulous or honest keepers of records. it's impressive enough that you've verified anything even as far back as the 1700's.

[shaolinstylee]

Well, some might be able to help you out if you let them at least know the style...

[doc]

Medford. Now where's Medford again. I've actually been there.

If you've gotten back to the 1700's, I'm quite impressed. What style are you researching? And what school?

[shaolinstylee]

but that is all based on legends and stories of the system

How far back can you go in relative "fact"?

[Mike Evans]

Well, the 1700's is based only on legends, but as far as "fact," I'm pretty sure I can go back to about the Boxer Rebellion. Here's a VERY brief synopsis of what I have so far:

I study a combination (2 separate and distinct systems taught side by side, actually) of Fa Men Chuan and what has been called Shaolin Lohan. Basically, legend has it that Wong Po left the Shaolin Temple in/around 1758. @ the Temple, he studied Long Pek Pai. He taught the system to his daughter Li Min Chin, AKA Golden Fist. Li Min Chin was married to a military man (General?) who was very anti-Shaolin for whatever reason. In secret, she taught the system to her servant, Fan Wang. When hubbie found out, he cut off her head. Fan Wang fled to southern China where he had some family and hid out in a Taoist temple. After some time, a young student named Wei Lei Chen came to him with a letter from a "friend" of Fan Wang saying that this young man had mastered all that the friend had to teach, and would Fan Wang take him as a student. (This is where the "Lohan" tradition came from. From what I've been able to ascertain, Lohan is really Pek Siu Lum or something very similar.) Due to anti Shaolin sentiment among local gov't officials, Fan Wang, at the advice of Wei Lei Chen, changed the name of the system to Fa Men Chuan. These two masters helped form the I Wor Kuen and I Wor Moon Societies, which allegedly had a hand in the Boxer Rebellion. In the early 1900's, Wei Lei Chen retired to Japan to live with a cousin of his who was a trader and had married into a Japanese family. The Family had two young sons named Mitsuhiro Ito and Sokuto Ito. Wei Lei Chen taught the system to both, but Sokuto wasn't into it. In the 1960's or 70's, Mitsuhiro came to South America as part of an agricultural exchange . He was an agronomist. (there are still large settlements of Japanese rice growers in parts of South America.) While there, he taught Mariano Rivera Sanches, who then taught Moses Arocho, who I train with.

I have met my Shihfu (duh), and his teacher, both of whom have told me about Mitsuhiro Ito, who BTW just died a few years back. Ito told My teacher's teacher many stories of Wei Lei Chen, and since a verifyable character has first hand knowledge of Wei Lei Chen, I'm assuming that what we know of him is probably somewhat reliable. IIRC, Chen was brought back to China to be buried, and one can still visit his grave in th etown where he grew up, and several townspeople have named their children after this local Boxer "hero" (allegedly).

I made the conection from Lohan to Pek Siu Lum based on some of forms having the same names with roughly the same motions, although greatly changed in pace, style, and flavor. Through my discussions with PSL practitioners, they say that their are many such "Stepchildren" of PSL around...

[doc]

After some time, a young student named Wei Lei Chen came to him with a letter from a "friend" of Fan Wang saying that this young man had mastered all that the friend had to teach, and would Fan Wang take him as a student. (This is where the "Lohan" tradition came from. From what I've been able to ascertain, Lohan is really Pek Siu Lum or something very similar.)

Interesting suggestion as to the origination of the Lohan tradition, especially since there are Lohan forms in Shaolin that go back much further, supposedly, than the 1700's. Maybe you can clarify this a bit?

And where is Medford again? Damn, I've been there, but I can't seem to remember.

[Mike Evans]

Medford is on Long Island, about midway out into Suffolk County.

As far as the Lohan connection: We originally assumed that the lohan was just that--Shaolin Lohan. However, on another Message Board which has alot of Pek Siu Lum guys, I noticed that the names of some of our forms were similar (Leng Lo, Tunda, etc.) Upon seeing video, I recognized some of the basic patterns and forms, tho we do them quite differently, as can be expected from two different lineages. On the other hand, we have some forms that we consider part of the Lohan portion of our training that more closely resemble and relate to Shaolin Temple style forms (Mei Hua Chuan, Xiao Hong Chuan, Etc.) Since this part of our history comes to us from "Outside" the Fam Men Chuan history, who knows what the truth really is. Maybe Wei Lei Chen's original teacher was the McDojo owner of his era...

The other concern has been the whole language issue. My Teacher speaks English as well as Mitsuhiro Ito spoke Spanish and Wei Lei Chen probably spoke Japanese. It's taken me years to research proper names and spellings of people and forms, and I'm sure many of my "corrections" are still incorrect as I don't speak Chinese! We have one form that we had been pronouncing Chuan Gee (Chicken Fist) for years unitl I came across an old script of the for with the title Chuan Yi...

[doc]

Do you have any videos of these? It might be interesting to compare, from our viewpoint.

[Mike Evans]

I can make some vids of our forms, and I'll get permission from the PSL guys to use their vids...might take a few days...

[shaolinstylee]

Mike,

If any of your stuff is related to BSL (there are lohan forms in that curriculm) I'd ask NorthernShaolin over at either Kung fu magazine forums (he usually hangs out in the shaolin forum) or go over to www.fu-ragz.com/forum/

[Mike Evans]

Just made another correction in our translations:

A form that we have been told was called Da Bi Chuan seems to actually be tong bei chuan! Woo Hoo, I get to make another correction to my students and look the fool again! I figured this out while checking out the video forum...