Americans!

[doc]

I'm impressed. You typed that from a song.
Did you know that the lyrics have already been put on the internet? Or maybe you didn't want to know that now...

There is a Shakespeare play that talks about how the loss of rational thought because of emotions have brought him down. Was it Macbeth, King Lear, or one of the others? I keep thinking it's Macbeth. Can't get the quote straight in my head, so I can't write it down. Nor can I find it. Not going to read those damn plays again either.

As for your Buffalo babe, I just got the impression that she's very much like many of these other entertainer types, especially the ones that you find in Hollywood. Lost, separated from reality, and very over-privileged.

They all come crashing down eventually.

[juszczec]

Originally posted by daodejing
[B]Live your life as best you can. Love yourself and thus love all things. Don't let your emotions rule your actions. Don't be a slave to desire. Don't be wasteful. By all means, if you can, turn in your carkeys. Find and know God in whatever context or meaning you perceive him to be. Respect everything around you, living and otherwise. Understand that hatred is derived from pain, and that desire is the root of suffering. Do your best to live without causing other to suffer. When you have no choice but to kill, do so without anger, and respect both the fallen and the survivor. When the battle is one do not rejoice, act as you would at a funeral rite.

These are wonderful sentiments and the world would indeed be a better place for everyone if we all practiced them.

The problem is not how to deal with people who try to live life by these rules. The problem is how to deal with people who don't. Its further complicated when the people who don't follow what's in the song try to get something out of you thru force or violence.

Then what?

Do you love them as they take what's yours? Do you give them what they want? What happens if they decide its not enough and want more? What happens if they decide you aren't really human, but some lower form of live they regard as a pest?

In short, be devoid of desire and full of love.

Devoid of desire? People want things, tangible and intangible. It makes the world go 'round. Its not wanting things that causes suffering-its the things you'll do to yourself and others to get them.

Mark

[Fa Hui]

"Be the change you want to see in the world" -Gandhi


When I first heard that I was deeply touched and knew from that quote that peace in the world was up to me. Little ol' me. I am just an average normal joe schmoe; there's nothing important that I've got to say nor anything that I think needs to be done to save this wacky world. All I try to do is live a life in which i try not cause problems and at the same time not be totally passive. It's a hard balance to maintain, but it gets easier every time.

I do my best in life. As a monk I realized that that was one of the few things I could offer in my life that would really count. If you are out there causing problems and making things difficult for others; then the only thing i see that I can do is just to continue doing what's best and skillful in my every day life. And if you come and take my family from me and my possesions perhaps I'll be angry and perhaps I will be sad. But the one thing I know is that someone or something is going to take those things from you eventually. You got no choice; that's the way it goes. And one day I'll go; maybe today or tomorrow or in 50 yrs. Who really knows? When it's time, it's time. All I can do is give my best and be as skillful as I can. It's not easy but it seems to work.

peace.

[daodejing]

My point exactly mark. It is the being overwhelmed by the desire for something which causes a person to suffer.

In regards to your other questions, what can a man do in a situation where he is faced with someone who does not respect him and wishes to do him harm?

Dr. Yang Jwing Ming once told a story about his school in Boston, it's not in the nicest area in the city, and there are alot of bars around. From time to time, a drunk will wander into his school looking for a fight. Everytime this happens he notices that the students want to fight the man and then drag him outside. He usually has to stop them from doing this. On one occasion in particular, a grizzled older man in 40's stumbled into the school piss drunk and looking for a fight. One of the students was about to give it to him, when Dr. Yang told him to mind his business and walked out to great the man. He asked him what his name was, and told him his own name in return. He asked him why he was trying to start a fight, and he listened intently to the man's answer. He explained that he was a veteran of the vietnam conflict, and that he was a great warrior, and none of these kids in this gongfu class truly knew what war was, so he wanted to teach them a listen. When he was finished speaking Dr. Yang told him that he couldn't fight with him just now because he was teaching class and these students had paid him for his time. He then offered the man a cup of tea and a chair off to the side of the room and said that after class was over, should he still want to fight, he would be more than happy to help him. He never got angry at the drunk, he remained calm and caring. He listened to a distressed human being and established a connection with him. Towards the end of the class, after the visitor had finished his tea, he left. He smiled and waved goodbye to Dr. Yang on his way out. Now everytime he passes the school he smiles and waves through the window.

This is one example. So what if you're in a situation far worse than an unarmed drunk who wants to box you? The same principles apply, don't get angry. Stay calm. Do the rational thing. If someone intends to kill you or others around you, and you know you can stop them, do so. If you have to kill do so with reverence, and without anger. Killing is a part of life. Even vegeterians kill every single day. Most of the raw vegetables which humans eat are still alive and respirating when we eat them or begin to cook them. Killing is part of our life. Honor it. Have respect for the creatures you return to the cycle. Never let anger cloud your judgement or your thinking. And always remember that, for a warrior, "it is not the modicum of skill to enter a battle and win it. It is the modicum of skill to win the battle without ever drawing your sword" - Sun Tzu

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not condoning murder. But there are older laws than the United States Code, and defending your family is one of them. It is anger however that will lead you to doing something stupid in that situation. Something which will land you in a jail cell even if successful.

The point is to know peace within. If you find yourself in a horrible situation, but you continue to know peace within, you will do what has to be done without rage or guilt.

[dogchow108]

*sigh*

what can i say, when you dont get it you just dont get it.

[doc]

My broccoli's alive when I throw it into the pot? And respirating?

I knew there was a reason I never was a fan of eating veggies.

Now, where's my ice cream. I freeze that puppy so much, it ain't never gonna talk.

[daodejing]

Yes doc, the respiration rate on different vegetables and fruits varies. The ones that breath more slowly (carrots, potatoes, root vegetables) thus last much longer in the absence of sunlight and water than do things like fruit (which has a much higher respiration rate and thus rots quickly when it dies). In general vegetables begin to rot immediatly when they die, unless they are in the freezer, or have been in the fridge for more than a month (even so, when veggies get moldy in a fridge that is working properly, its because their dying and cant fight off the infection, or are already dead). I've seen carrots begin to regrow greens even after being in my fridge for 7 weeks. Raw vegetables are very much alive. This is part of the of the reason I always thought people who ate vegetarian to avoid killing were nincumpoops.

Just because lobsters and broccoli don't scream when you throw them in boiling water doesn't mean they arent in pain. Scientists are just starting to realize that plants have their own sort of nervous system. This is why I say to have reverence for the sacred act you partake in any time you kill anything, be it broccoli, an ant, a live fish, or a man driving a truckload of explosives at your tank. The point is to act with compassion and respect, and not out of anger or malice.

[doc]

Lobsters scream when you throw them into boiling water. That's why you always throw them in head first.

So they die more quickly without suffering. (Suffering is said to taint the flavor of the meat).

And, so we don't have to hear them cry.

[juszczec]

Originally posted by Fa Hui
"Be the change you want to see in the world" -Gandhi

Gandhi was a man who accomplished great good by staying true to what he believed. I can't have anything but respect for anyone who does this.

The other thing I like about this quote is it puts the onus on the individual to change the world by being the kind of person they want more of in the world.

Nothing is more powerful than leading by example.

Mark

[juszczec]

In regards to your other questions, what can a man do in a situation where he is faced with someone who does not respect him and wishes to do him harm?

Dr. Yang Jwing Ming once told a story...

He did the right thing. If some slob calls you names, says he's gonna kick your ass BUT he takes no action-its generally illegal to hit him. Until he makes a threatening movement, and running his mouth is annoying but not threatening, its a legal gray area.

I don't think you want to fall into this gray area if you are an MA. Even the most dim-witted prosecutor will make you out to be a highly trained killing machine and the jury may buy it.

Then you are screwed.

Ming responded as a mature man with lots of common sense would.

However, the story would have a much different ending if Ming was unable to talk the man down by blowing smoke up his ass and the fool took a swing.

Speaking of blowing smoke, IMO that's exactly what Ming did. More politely put, he off balanced the drunk mentally by giving him an unexpected reaction. Try it sometime, be very polite to someone who thinks your going to be mad as hell at them. Ya catch more flies with honey...

"it is not the modicum of skill to enter a battle and win it. It is the modicum of skill to win the battle without ever drawing your sword" - Sun Tzu

This is just common sense. Its a metaphor for saying any time you fight you put yourself at risk physically. If you can get what you want AND not take any risks, then you are a fool if you do otherwise.

This example is not one of what should you do when you are faced with someone who wants to hurt you. The drunk may have wanted to cause trouble, but he didn't want to fight with anyone because he didn't attack anyone. If he had attacked Ming, like I said, there would be a different ending.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not condoning murder. But there are older laws than the United States Code, and defending your family is one of them.

Doesn't defending where you live to ensure the safety of your family follow this?

It is anger however that will lead you to doing something stupid in that situation. Something which will land you in a jail cell even if successful.

Anger is a a tool. If you control it you can use it.

The point is to know peace within. If you find yourself in a horrible situation, but you continue to know peace within, you will do what has to be done without rage or guilt. [/B]

I've heard the peace within stuff ever since I started training. I think it means, you can fight better if you are calm. I don't think there is any higher meaning than that.

Mark

[daodejing]

Doc, actualy the lobsters don't scream they just thrash. But muscles and littleneck clams will gurgle at you.... watch out for that. I've boiled several thousand lobsters in my day (cooked in a few seafood restaurant) and I've never heard one scream. But some of them thrash so bad they tear their own claws off.

[daodejing]

Mark, even if someone is seriously trying to hurt you, the most effective thing to do (unless they are firing the gun at that moment or throwing a strike at you) is to tell them your name, find out their name, and try to connect with them as another human being worthy of your respect. More often then not, this does surprise the hell out of them, and they usually have a much tougher time attacking you when they know your name and know that you are being nice and respectful towards them. This is winning the battle without drawing your sword. If there is no time for this (ie the guy is throwing a punch at you right now) then simply deflect the strike, control the wrist, and kick his lead knee out. If your life is truly in danger, be primarily concerned with neutralizing your opponent ability to attack. Dr. Yang also said once that "Always remember, to be merciful to your opponent is to be cruel to your self." He was speaking in the context of Qin Na in a real life situation, but it applies to any fight where you or those around you are at serious risk.

I mostly agree with you on everything in that post, but don't forget that merely "being calm" in all situations is quite a profound thing.

[doc]

Lobsters scream. Trust me. Next time you cook one, stick your head in the pot and listen carefully.

As for speaking with drunks, it's a common technique in the Emergency Room to speak quietly with them. It does bring them down a bit, for some reason I don't understand. Doesn't work with drug overdoses though.

[daodejing]

Hmm. Are you sure that's not the hissing of their bodily fluids boiling and escaping the shell? Clams definatly gurgle and occasionaly squeek at you when you shuck them alive. So do oysters. Ever prepared a baked stuffed lobster? The proper way to do is to take a live lobster, put him on his back on a cutting board and put your knife through the midline of the underbelly, cutting all the way through the organs from head to tail. When you do this you try to drive the point of the blade through the unfortunate bug's brain to make it quick. But they still thrash alot. Their usally still twitching when you're ripping their organs out and putting in the stuffing. But they don't scream. They sure as hell thrash and gurgle though. And all the little claws on the legs try to attack you as best they can. I suppose there's a lesson to be learned from that. I think the lesson is never order baked stuffed lobsters...... Unless you're the type of person who also likes to wear mink coats.

As for speaking quietly and calmly, yes it does wonders. But I could see where it wouldn't work in the case of many types of drug overdoses. Namely coke and PCP. Usually the only way to calm down a person who's on pcp and decided to get aggressive is to break their legs. Either that or get your five closest friends who weigh at least 200 lbs each to hold them down. As for other drugs, well you would never need to calm down a patient who has od'd on heroin, they tend to be pretty calm as is.

[doc]

I'm sure.

They scream.

It's horrible. Just horrible.