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the USA drops the women's rights in Iraq

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  • the USA drops the women's rights in Iraq

    Hi everybody this is very important!!.

    After the assaninat of AKILA Al Hashimi, the only woman member of the Council of "gouvenement transitory"
    and in spite of the manifestations of the militant Christian women and Moslem women, the supreme Council of the Islamic revolution voted the abolition of the code of the family, considered liberal , and the application of Charia! (abolished under the Saddam tyrant)
    In the vain hope to obtain a truce, the representative of George Bush thus agreed to close the eyes on the return of the veil, enfermement and lapidation. as in Iran It is necessary to support the courage of the women in Iran!!!

    This is horrible that all those which reads this message makes known it around him. Not "new" afhgAnistan country pro has "September 11"

  • #2
    What's this doing in the Shaolin Gong Fu Schools forum?

    LOL, I'll move it.

    BTW, I'm a bit confused about what all this is...
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

    (more comments in my User Profile)
    russbo.com


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    • #3
      the us could never have a say about the veil. thats one area they just cant go...




      Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles.

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      • #4
        This is way wrong, but I heard a joke not too long ago.

        Nipple tassle is to the US
        as the veil is to extremist moslem's.
        practice wu de

        Comment


        • #5
          the scary thing is that its only the islamic fundies who keep talking about "imposing" shariah. As there are also plenty of other contemporary scholars who have a different opinion of what "shariah" actually is. Like i was trying to say on the other thread doc - most of the guys on the iraq "governing council" have their own militias and lackies doing all their dirty work - the hijab is one such thing - in some cases not even just the head scarf but the cover over the nose and mouth too.

          hence why i said that in some cases the situation of the people was better under Saddam. My friends cousin there is a 20yr old girl and never used to wear the head scarf - now she does whenever she goes out as there were cases of extremist men throwing acid in the faces of women and such (as also happened in pakistan) - simply because they were not covered.

          The annoying thing about all this is that the whole of "islamic law" - 1400 years worth of thought and human experience in the end always comes down to the poor women and if they are covered up enough or not.

          makes me so mad

          dave
          simple and natural is my method,
          true and sincere is my principle --Tse Sigung

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          • #6
            The problem is, is that they can't separate Islamic law, from common law. Law is law, religion is religion.

            But, it will never happen.
            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

            (more comments in my User Profile)
            russbo.com


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            • #7
              I wanna said to all of the people, they already put some post here Thank you !!
              We can make the difference together !!
              Doc u said a very good thing law is the law religion is religion !!

              The common law must be created for protect and growing in a safe place if a law (islamic or not) when the law make a discrimination between a man or a women a black or a white a tall with a small
              THis is not a law or a religion this is tyrany !!

              Sometimes I don't understand who we are (the men) to making this horrible things to the women I don't understand that.

              In France now the governement voted a law. THis law said now at school university the hijab is prohibited because this is the symbol of the women asservissement

              thanks for all of you !!

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              • #8
                Yes, I heard that. But the head scarf is also a manifestation of the Islamic religion, no?

                It's one thing to ban something that is a demonstration of the diminishing of women's rights, it's purely another to ban a religious concept (and necessity).
                Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                (more comments in my User Profile)
                russbo.com


                Comment


                • #9
                  ok a few points i wanna raise first

                  Doc - re: religion and law being seperate. This is the interesting point. Basically Islamic law also encompasses "normal" law. There are a few key things outlined in Quran and the prophets Sunnah (dont confuse sunnah with hadith) on legal precepts and such, but even those are not so vast. Quran is only around maybe 15% actual legal rulings and precepts - the rest is about morality and developing the character as well as the theological side. Most of the precepts of law actually come through intellectual development of scholars form the time the Prophet left onwards. A lot of Islamic law takes in to account something in arabic called 'urf which is the local custom/practises as well as other things like that. The thing you have to remember it is a system of Law not just something that says do this and dont do that and ppl blindly follow. Though thats what many people believe and want others to believe. How long does it take to study Law and be qualified? Islamically it was generally between 8-10 years if not more though its not happening so much now.

                  A great article which explains the basic principles of Islamic law (as well as all the nasty "punishments" ppl have in mind and so on) is here. I dont agree with some of the points they they highlighted but it gives a pretty good overview.

                  Also regarding the headscarf... there are different views on this and its really quite interesting. For me and my school its more like this: Muhammad and his followers were Arab - so of course they followed 7th century Arab custom that didnt contradict the Islamic ethos. Part of that was wearing a scarf on the head. usually just wrapped around so the ends are thrown over the back of the neck. So of course when the verse comes down which literally means "cover your bosoms" (and be modest) its natural to use the scarf thats already there to do that. Now, the whole middle east region had a similar custom so all the legal thoughts and things were also written by Arabs who followed their customs and practises. For me - im not Arab and dont need to be an Arab clone to be Muslim.

                  For sure the "traditional" opinions on this are that the scarf is mandatory - some even say that you should only show the face and hands and some even the eyes and hands. But reaching even further back than the "orthodoxy" there is also much evidence that it was not settled... there is heaps of research and discussion going on about these kind of things - particularly between us muslims who are in the west and also places like malaysia and so on. Basically coz here we can discuss it. here and also here are some good examples of this contemporary thought.

                  I totally agree with what you say in the last sentence though doc - if it is an obligation that has to be observed then i dont understand why they can ban it. I thought the welfare of the citizens was kinda important for government s but im naive Also it then gets in to the issue about wearing the scarf - some are forced, some believe its required so choose to, some dont like being stared at (sexually) so cover and so on..,. there are many different reasons why.

                  anyway just some more food for thought - you said u wanted to learn stuff so thats why im shooting off so many links

                  dave
                  simple and natural is my method,
                  true and sincere is my principle --Tse Sigung

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                  • #10
                    If I say to you that, my religion have a habit to control a part of the population. Do you think it's a good interpretation of the Coran ?

                    This part of the population have for OBLIGATION and not by choice to carry the scarf. Do you not believe that this practice would not have to be prohibited ? I recall you lot of woman in Irak doesn't want the scarf by obligation because religion it's personal, it's a personal choice to practice a religion !!

                    Tradition or habit, are not "perfection". It can be to change if they are against the good of all the human beings.

                    With this kind point of vue The women would still not vote today and would be simple objects!! Not thank you not for that for me!!

                    About the France I recall you that. France it is a Laïque state not a religious state. And when you want to live in a country the laws should be followed. Isn'it ?

                    And I think France is not the badest country in the world for living, even we are not "perfect" (it is true that we have this mania to eat snail and frogs and to be arrogant , but you also can eat them if you want it, you are not forced. Because that makes some more eat for us!! ) :-))) joke of courses)

                    we protect and also help the poor people ? Like the USA or some great country

                    For the human rights everybody are equal in rights. If it's not the case some "actions" or decision must be carried out to make them respect.
                    And that for the respect of "half" the world population I want to say the women!!!

                    Nobody or no religion can asserve human being ! I recall you that all of the religion on earth want the same thing

                    " share, compassion, to help people" growing in harmony with each other. They don't take the same way but they have the same goal Isn't it

                    Think about his

                    Sorry for my bad english I hope u can understand my thinking I'm not agains't the muslim but against the Islamist

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                    • #11
                      i am against the Islamist too

                      dave
                      simple and natural is my method,
                      true and sincere is my principle --Tse Sigung

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm sure of it dear Dave !!

                        I don't like make amalgamate so I can make the difference between A fanatic and moderate practitioner

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                        • #13
                          comments pending some further insight and a break from work

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                          • #14
                            the rest is about morality
                            Most laws are based on what we interperet as morality issues though.

                            don't kill
                            don't steal
                            don't do drugs
                            don't marry gays

                            In the US, our laws are largely based on Judeo-Christian morals and values, etc.


                            Why shouldn't theirs be built on Islamic morals and values (which a lot of, would parallel the Judeo-Christian thing)?
                            practice wu de

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                            • #15
                              thats exactly my point

                              Some people think Islamic Law is making women wear veils, choppping off hands and stoning folks for adultery etc. But its actually a heck of a lot more substantiative than that and those things are not much of it at all

                              dave
                              simple and natural is my method,
                              true and sincere is my principle --Tse Sigung

                              Comment

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