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  • #16
    Manyways clearly is advocating cannibalism as an acceptable alternative to mainstream dining.

    But seriously, I agree completely that people, children included, ought to be exposed to ideas contrary to the mainstream. PETA has every right to call me a Nazi for eating steak, and to target kids with idiotic propaganda, as morally and intellectually retarded as those things are. It's just the job of a parent to explain to their kids why PETA's propaganda is stupid, and it's the job of a meat-eating adult to either ignore them or call them out on their bullshit.

    Besides, there are plenty of vegetarians out there with meaningful, intelligent points to make. Just not in PETA.

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    • #17
      Funny to see that this thread popped back up. KFC Convention is back at the Rio next week, PETA will be back too. Security will be busy keeping PETA from attacking the rooms of conventioneers and breaking windows again.
      I do not have a psychiatrist and I do not want one, for the simple reason that if he listened to me long enough, he might become disturbed.
      "Life can keep providing the rain and I'll keep providing the parade."
      "I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle."
      "Whatever guy said that money don't buy you pleasure didn't know where to go shopping"

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      • #18
        more PETA things....

        meat's no treat... ?
        Think I will have a nice big steak for dinner.
        Attached Files
        I do not have a psychiatrist and I do not want one, for the simple reason that if he listened to me long enough, he might become disturbed.
        "Life can keep providing the rain and I'll keep providing the parade."
        "I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle."
        "Whatever guy said that money don't buy you pleasure didn't know where to go shopping"

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        • #19
          loving this peta bullshiat, its good for a laugh

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          • #20
            Peta's bullshit make you laugh? Being a dumb basque i dont know much about Peta's policies but their videos are documentaries. If animal suffering makes you laugh, you have a strange way to have compassion.

            Try this one about China's fur farms and let me know if it makes you laugh.
            http://www.peta.org/feat/ChineseFurFarms/index.asp

            Would you deny there is animals suffering in modern industry? Should we not have compassion for them.

            Personally i became a vegetarian 8 years ago, returning from India. I was making a 7 days retreat on Satipatthana sutta, a classic theravada sutta about establishing mindfulness, at a Goenka center, free of charge by the way, and one day i was tired sitting so i went to the mountain. There i met a wild buffalo, that would not want me to get close to him. Zen i thought if this animal does not want me to get close to him, what right do i have to kill him?

            If you practice Shaolin why not go to India and research the veg philosophy? Meet mother India and its mystical cows.

            So i dont know much about Peta but i believe there is suffering of animals in the world and this should be avoided.The other point is does the wild buffalo want you to eat him? That s the non violence question.

            1 Is there suffering of animals?
            2 Is there violence to animals?

            What we need about this ch'an questions is knowledge not opinions. And if you have opinions you should acknowledge it is only opinion, so you should doubt it.

            I believe question 1 is easier to answer than question 2. Yes there is suffering of animals, they express it.
            Question 2 is more complicated and there personnaly i have no real knowledge just inferences. But is seems meat eaters have more knowledge because they know they are non violent. But from what i have seen with my wild buffalo, it seems he does not want to compromise its freedom to be eaten.

            Just question yourself: do you know you are non violent? Are you a saint or clinging to you Ego?

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            • #21
              About the idea of getting human problems before dealing with chicken and fish, here is a daoist Zhuangz i story.

              A man was walking his way when he met a fish  in a  pool whith little water left. The fish asked  him t o go and fetch him some water so he can surv ive. 
              T he man said very well but i first have to go  to se e the King zen i ll go to the river to bring  you w ater. Zen the fish angrily answered that if  the ma n did so, he, the fish, would be found dead  at the  dry fish market.

              As a theravada monk told me India, people sh ould f irst take care about their home and food bef ore mi xing with politics. Kind of Hinayana i guess.
              Last edited by liutangsanzang; 05-08-2008, 09:22 AM.

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              • #22
                i dont really care for peta, because they can be rather hypocritical in their efforts. but seriously, the videos speak for themselves.

                there are some sick people in the world! the message is the same no matter who presents it.

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                • #23
                  Yeah PETA actually kills alot of the animals they bring in. And one of the co-founders of PETA, Mary Beth Sweetland, was saved with medical knowledge obtained through animal testing. God I love Penn and Tellers Bullshit. Such a wealth of information on this topic.... lol... I'm gonna go eat some more chickens.
                  The essential point in science it not a complicated mathematical formalism or a ritualized experimentation. Rather the heart of science is a kind of shrewd honesty the springs from really wanting to know what the hell is going on!

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                  • #24
                    Ironcross, correct me if i am wrong but with your interest in killing chicken are you not advocating craving for killing, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for points of view, ie killing chicken is non violence?
                    Isnt craving the source of samsara, the source of suffering and violence in the philosophical system you study with shaolin?
                    And are you not using the force to impose your ego against the chicken will which is to run away?

                    Note that i use question marks, wont say i am preaching. Just try to be socratic.

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                    • #25
                      just because you can add a questioin mark to the end of a sentence does not mean you are not preaching in tone and manner. see, when a person negates/dismisses another's view in place of his or her own, continually, with repeated attempts to change or influence that person's thinking, then this individual is, in affect, preaching. you don't seem to get that.

                      if someone came to you for advice, it would be different.

                      but we didn't.
                      ZhongwenMovies.com

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                      • #26
                        So when two people have a dialogue with different points of view, they are preaching to each other? Might be but there may also be other possibilities.Was Socrates preaching? If you talked with a Nazi about not killing Jews, would you call that preaching?

                        I might recognize i have a tendancy of preach but i also try to be non dogmatical. Again i dont say veg is ultimate truth. So arent you preaching when you tell me i am preaching, while you try to influence me? Anyway thanks for the remarks, helps me to deconstruct my Ego. Also as i say veg is not ultimate truth would you say meat eating is not ultimate truth? Are you not preaching yourself and the world every time you eat?

                        By the way i am having chinese false meat with noodles. I dont know if it is good but it tastes good. You should try the other way of yourself, good for letting go the ego. Well i mean i dont know but i believe so. If you see what i mean.

                        Good luck with your karma my shaolin friends, hope you wont get caught in some cultural revolution with your meat eating habits. Gandhi was veg, Mao was fish eater.
                        Last edited by liutangsanzang; 05-09-2008, 11:37 AM.

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                        • #27
                          If you talked with a Nazi about not killing Jews, would you call that preaching?
                          i am half jew in terms of ethnicity; this is an entirely different topic.

                          Also as i say veg is not ultimate truth would you say meat eating is not ultimate truth?
                          as i said, i was a vegetarian for 7 years. if it works for you, that's great. i wouldn't tell you to consider eating meat. i would only suggest it if you had an interest in it. it's up to you.

                          You should try the other way of yourself, good for letting go the ego. Well i mean i dont know but i believe so.
                          so, you recommend to others something that you don't even understand yourself.

                          Good luck with your karma my shaolin friends, hope you wont get caught in some cultural revolution with your meat eating habits.
                          now, what you're saying is, if meat eaters continue to eat meat, they could potentially get themselves caught in a cultural revolution. and, your bases for saying this is...."Gandhi was veg, Mao was fish eater."

                          the thing you don't seem to get is that (the majority of) people on this board don't have a problem with their meat eating behavior. you do!! not them. they also haven't asked for your advise, nor your opinion, but you're still inclined to give them suggestions. over and over again. i

                          so, this is not a conversation as you would lead us to believe. it's you, rather, giving people recommendations to not eat meat and/or consider non-violence. therefore, it comes off as preaching.
                          ZhongwenMovies.com

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                          • #28
                            OK, zen consider vegetarianism as a preaching of compassion for the suffering of living beings as an emanation of Guan Yin Pusa/Avalokistevara!

                            Glad to be part of the emanation!

                            Though i dont believe it. Again, am i the only ignorant here, while meat eater know what they do?

                            So i come for some advice for meat eaters: please rescue me from my ignorance about non violence and eating!Guan Yin Pusa would always help those who ask her so i hope you egoless meat eaters will help.
                            I really come for advice, onesp1ng, thanks for putting me on this dialectical idea. Being ignorant, i really need the advice of meat eaters, that is a less egoistic way. I am not ironic.

                            Thanks for the preaching objections, it is also quite dialectical and useful.

                            Onesp1ng, so do you consider veg people do not have more compassion? What about the suffering of animals we see in Peta's documentaries? How to deal with that?

                            I hope it is honest enough questioning.

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                            • #29
                              do you consider veg people do not have more compassion? What about the suffering of animals we see in Peta's documentaries? How to deal with that?
                              these are conversation building questions. thanks.

                              i guess, in my estimation, compassion is non-countable, and therefore can't be measured.. i'm not saying i'm egoless/not ignorant/non-violent, benevolent, etc.. i'm nothing. you can see me how you see fit. i'm saying it's subjective, is all. if it's a competition, i'd just rather sit it out.

                              obviously the suffering in those documentaries is terrible. i don't condone it. (and you probably won't find many here who're pro-violence.) but, like i said, i don't feel vegetarianism is the answer either. the problem, in my eyes, is excess, as well as the inhumane treatment you've pointed out.

                              basically i deal with it by accepting my nature. yours may be slightly different -- 因人而異 (it's different from person to person). if you must, hell, be vegetarian... even preach... (just please do it in the appropriate places. it may even have a greater impact that way.)

                              my turn:

                              is it ever OK to kill for food in your opinion?

                              please, can you try to answer without a riddle, line of the daodejing, some philosophical anecdote related to buddhism, a friend's idea, or the, "i don't know i'm just ignorant" answer...

                              what do you think?
                              ZhongwenMovies.com

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                              • #30
                                Advocating vegetarianism and/or less brutal treatment of animals is one thing, PETA is something else entirely. Part of their position is that people should end testing drugs on animals; this is just dumb because you're effectively killing people so that mice and bunnies can live. That sort of position reflects the view of the world that says humans basically don't have a right to be on this planet and affect it in any way. On top of this, they indirectly fund groups who promote this ****ed up philosophy through violence.

                                Regarding vegetarianism, I was a vegetarian for a few months recently (second time I've tried it). There are a lot of good cases for and against the practice. What made me give it up (this time), as funny as it may sound, was just the realization that this cow was born and raised to feed me, and if there weren't demand for that meat it never would have been born in the first place. In a way, by eating (or wearing) it I'm effectively giving it a life. I do try to buy organic animal products, not to avoid the "scary chemicals" but because there's a better chance of those animals having been treated well.

                                All that said, it should also be noted that there are animal products in basically everything, and no matter what you eat or how careful you are in your shopping habits, the fact is animals are suffering and dying so that you can lead the lifestyle you do. You being alive is also very bad for the environment. I figure, I have a right to be here anyway. (That may have been a bit of a tangent...)

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