PETA bullshit

[blooming tianshi lotus]

I come from a tribal heritage that in one part were canibals at one stage, ( and understand that when I say to ppl "I 'll eat you", I mean that I see the vulnerabilty and eat and process that spirit) and who also had farms ( both animal and veggie) and machettes and slingshots had no problem going out and lobbing a leg off of a cow while it was grazing if food was needed nor in climbing a coconut tree and shanghai-ing a fruit bat for a personal beachside roast on a stick, or in slaughtering and cleaning any animal they had in proportion to how many ppl needed to be fed and what the nutritional need was perceived to be. I certainly wouldn't deny them those survival means. there are all sorts of reasons that adequate produce isn't available and why to supplement with meat. Human beings were designed to incorporate that into our survival. we can understand this by looking at either our bone and teeth structure or our by analysising our dna.

I also have nothing against storing as many animals as takes to feed ppl by whatever resource is available and economically feasible.
I would rather see ppl fed.

This is about survival, not personal prejudices. whatever it takes, I am okay with.

eat, live, be merry and maintain life if you want to sounds good to me.

[quote]
BTL, you say nature has a plan when it creates weakness in order for something else to live. But how do you know nature has a plan?This is higly questionable. Are war and genocides part of the plan?
[end quote]

the plan is called laws of physics. there's no point having any opinion about it, because that is what energy does. It builds in one thing then degenerates to fule something else. that is the cycle of life.
if war and genocide has happened, then I would yes. it must also be a part of how it all works. things are meannt to climax and explode and have 'new' things arise out of the elements of it's destruction. you often cite hinduism in regard to this stuff, and funnily, it waaas hinduism that introduced me to shiva deva vu and the universal concept through to parinirvana and of the entire immortal cycle of the place of destruction and rebirth, and never more than in the context Of love and compassion that makes it all go round.

I'm not going to respond to your pm about this, but, I highly recommend that you check out the vedic gods and try on perspective about this from there. and yes, I would love to go to india, have tentative future plans to, and no I haven't been there as yet.


Blooming tianshi lotus.

[doc]

I come from a tribal heritage that in one part were canibals at one stage,


Blooming tianshi lotus.

Well, that explains everything.

[liutangsanzang]

Om Mani Pedme Hung

[liutangsanzang]

Ironcross, u say u dont care about the suffering of chicken or fish. It is a strange statement to my eyes. You dont care about the suffering you create when u practice gongfu?

U also say that by killing a fish, you spare other's fish life that would have been eaten by that fish, so it is kind of compassionate. So would you say if some extreme left tantric terrorist kill some meat eaters, he is compassionate because he saves some fish life? And i am not an expert of fish but do they really feed on other fish? How do the small fishes feed? I have been considering the pond at this buddhist temple where they release fishes and they seemed to live in good harmony without killing each other. But that s just a buddhist temple, not the real life and samsara.

U also say u need the meat for your athletics. Carl Lewis was a vegetarian when he won his gold medals at the Olympics. Check http://youtube.com/watch?v=bOTETXwfIaY

Z and Ironcross you kind of say animals are dumb (correct me if i m wrong). But frankly how do you judge this? Humans are more intelligent for what? We make wars, create rich and poor, do not cure sick people in the 3rd world. Many animals do not need to kill for living, have no rich and poor, do not need shelter to live in the environment. Remember the Sun Wu Kong story? One of its meaning might be that we would be better off living like monkeys. All we would need is a tree and a banana and free love.

Fa Hui , thanks for the advice. I kind of practice the kind of meditation you advocate except that when a thought arises i try to see the suffering and have some compassion.

Here are some ch'an questions for you meat eaters:

1 How present in your heart are animals and animal suffering? Do you often dream of animals?
2 Do you think your compassion for the suffering of animals is at its best? If no, for what reason?

Peace and love

[Iron Cross]

YOu are really starting to make me laugh now. YOu seem to lack any basic understanding of biology or the food chain. It's really quite amusing. Yes fish eat other fish to survives. Especially in the ocean where I do my fishing. Been living on the water my whole life, worked in a bait and tackle shop when I was a kid, my sister has her masters degree in marine science and is going for her PHD. I know a little bit about fish and their eco system. THe way it works is very small fish eat things like Phytoplankton which get their energy from sunlight. Slightly larger fish eat the fish that eat the phytoplankton and slightly larger fish eat those fish and so on and so forth until you reach the apex predators like sharks and tuna and things of that nature. THough I guess sharks could eat tuna too if they were big enough. Humans are the ultimate apex predator in all environments because we basically eat everything, plant and animal, and allow nothing to eat us. Our technology has all but shielded us from animals coming into out homes and eating us for food. I rather prefer it this way myself. Sure occasionally there is a nut bar like TImothy Treadwell who thinks he has a personal connection and understanding with Grizzly Bears. Of course he was eaten by them and so was his girlfriend. Environmentalists consider him something of a hero of conservation. The locals in Alaska knew he was going to be eaten before he left and consider him a moron.

Anyways, good for all the vegetarian athletes out there. More power to em. I really just prefer eating meat. Its alot easier to get my daily protein requirements that way. Also means I dont have to supplement with a dozen different things daily.

Oh and yes animals are way stupider than us. Even things like whales and dolphins. THey have been shown to be rather intelligent but they dont build cities or solve complex mathematical problems. Cows and chickens are incredibly stupid. Humans make wars and all that jazz. BUt, we also create art and medicine. WE are able to shape the environment to suit our needs. No other animal can do that. Cows and chickens and limited by their environments. Humans can live anywhere they choose. From deserts to frozen wastelands and everywhere in between.

If you think animals have it all figured out by living in the wilderness and being one with mother earth then I suggest you ditch the computer and go do the same. In fact take all your peta friends with you. GO live in a nice forest village with your animal friends singing songs all day long. It will truly be a Disney paradise. It worked out so well For Tim Treadwell and Chris McCandless...

Man I gotta stop writing about this I swore I'd stop.

[Iron Cross]

Oh yeah. All your buddhist reason means nothing to me because I'm not buddhist.

[liutangsanzang]

I dont know if i am not a buddhist but how do you know buddhism is untrue and that you are not? Seems you are preaching buddhism is untrue.

[Iron Cross]

Ummm what the hell?

[blooming tianshi lotus]

I dont know if i am not a buddhist but how do you know buddhism is untrue and that you are not? Seems you are preaching buddhism is untrue.

No, it doesn't sound like that. What it sounds like is a. you could be accussing him of moral crimes according to your interpretation of his infractions of it based on what I believe is your own limited understandings of it, and secondly that he says he doesn't confine his perception of truth to it.

That's what I got from it.

You are sooo quick to condem everyone else in the name of compassion and emptiness, and really, I think you just miss the point entirely!
there's no blame or fear or personalisation and self in emptiness.

Blooming tianshi lotus.

[liutangsanzang]

BTL, you say there is no blame in emptiness. But isnt there responsabilty? The 14 Dalai Lama calls for universal responsability. Emptiness does not mean that there is no moral, sila.

If you cause suffering to an animal you are responsible for it. As Huineng pointed out, the fact is that in emptiness you could hardly do anything else but cause suffering. So in this sense there is no blame. But there is responsability and karma and even blame.

The point is that humans have caused suffering to animals, unseen before. This suffering created by humans, some try to balance it with austerity.

Try this one on the suffering of chicken in the egg industry

http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/arbys_wendys_eggs

[doc]

From the PETA website:

When PETA learned that real chimpanzees would play the part of Chim Chim in the Wachowski brothers' live-action movie adaptation of the classic television series Speed Racer, we immediately wrote to the Wachowskis and Warner Bros. urging them to use computer-generated imagery (CGI) or animatronics instead. Why? Chimpanzee "actors" are forcibly removed from their mothers when they are just infants—sometimes when they are only days old—causing lifelong emotional scars and an unshakable fear of the unknown.

Now, if I could write like THAT, I'd have one hell of a popular website.

Alas, doomed to obscurity....

[zachsan]

When is someone going to start People for the Ethical Treatment of Child Actors? I mean, the human ones.

[master splinter]

why do you think they get paid so much?

[doc]

Here are some ch'an questions for you meat eaters:

1 How present in your heart are animals and animal suffering? Do you often dream of animals?
2 Do you think your compassion for the suffering of animals is at its best? If no, for what reason?

Peace and love

Chan questions. Practiced in China, espoused here by a Chinese. Let's take a look at some practices in China, reported by your heroes, PETA themselves:

"Man's best friend" killed for fur? It's not just a bad dream. PETA recently conducted an undercover investigation into the Chinese dog and cat fur trade to show you what the industry is so desperate to hide. Even our veteran investigators were horrified at what they found: Millions of dogs and cats in China are being bludgeoned, hanged, bled to death, and strangled with wire nooses so that their fur can be turned into trim and trinkets. This fur is often deliberately mislabeled as fur from other species and is exported to countries throughout the world to be sold to unsuspecting customers in retail stores. China supplies more than half of the finished fur garments imported for sale in the United States, so the bottom line is that because dog and cat fur is so often mislabeled, if you're buying fur, there's no way to tell whose skin you're wearing.

PETA went into an animal market in Southern China and found cats and dogs languishing in tiny cages, visibly exhausted. Some had been on the road for days, transported in flimsy wire-mesh cages with no food or water. Twenty cats were forced into a single cage. Because of the cross-country transport in such deplorable conditions, our investigators saw dead cats on top of the cages, dying cats and dogs inside the cages, and dogs and cats with open wounds. Some animals were lethargic or frightened, and others were fighting with each other, driven insane from confinement and exposure.

Up to 8,000 animals are loaded onto each truck, with cages stacked on top of each other. Cages containing live animals are commonly tossed from the top of the trucks onto the ground 10 feet below, shattering the legs of the animals inside them. Many of the animals we saw still had collars on, a sign that they were once someone's beloved companions, stolen to be made into fur coats.

Another commonplace practice in China is cooking dogs alive. They feel that killing them first destroys the quality of the meat, and therefore the flavor.

[master splinter]

someone stole my cat, the poor guy was just too trusting. he wasnt even full grown yet... *tear*

that being said, does anyone know of a way i can sell cats to china in large quantities? I smell profit! $$$! there are so many strays here they may start an uprising soon.