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why believe (or not) and the justification

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  • #16
    Originally posted by liutangsanzang View Post
    Law, thanks for the zen approach

    About cookies, thanks but like ur teacher Thich Nhat Hanh says i try to avoid industrial eggs from caged chicken. Zen write to prisoners wouldnt make much sense

    Do u think ur teacher is wise or r u wiser than him?

    Do u love me?

    Peace and love

    PS One i dont try to say buddhism is right or islam is right, i just say that to keep an open mind to religion might be philosophically useful.
    I love...cake...

    I love... my girlfriend...

    hmm...did I mention cake already?
    "For some reason I'm in a good mood today. I haven't left the house yet, though. "

    "fa hui, you make buddhism sexy." -Zachsan

    "Friends don't let friends do Taekwondo." -Nancy Reagan

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    • #17
      One, first of all,i m not trying to prove you buddhism is right. I ve spent a lot of time in meditation struggling with the fact that i was acting according to beliefs. What am i doing there meditating? I think with time i have found a meditation that is more personal and can deal partially with religious beliefs as questions. But again i thank u for the discussion these days because i m questioning even more what i tend to believe.

      If i understand u correctly u seem to say u cannot prove things as afterlife.

      But tibetan lamas practicing Powa, one of the 6 yoga of Naropa, say they can master the bardo of after death and chose they future reincarnation.

      I dont say it is true, i dont say it is false but from their point of view after life can be proven. So they seem to contradict u. And u seem to say they r liars or in illusions.

      About hell, u seem to be caught in a judeo christian view that is quite different from the view on emptiness, ignorance and karma. If u commit a crime u might go to jail, that is hell, that is karma. After this life the consequences of ur acts wont be decided only by god or buddha but by other forces such as ignorance and the climate. I think that is a way to see karma that is different from a certain monotheistic approach, but not necessarily contradiction the Gospel or the Quran. Again i dont say it is true, but i feel it as possible.

      Fa, u seem to escape my questions.

      About non violence do u think the ideas of Thich Nhat Hann about renouncing eggs from caged chicken are useless?

      Do u love me?

      Peace and love
      Namo Guan Yin Pusa / Dont create suffering / Dont harm animals!

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      • #18
        I dont say it is true, i dont say it is false but from their point of view after life can be proven. So they seem to contradict u. And u seem to say they r liars or in illusions.
        And you seem to be saying nothing at all of any value. And you seem to be causing violent thoughts to arise in my brain. And thinking of what your response to that statement will be seems to make me want to go on a three day bender and never talk to a Buddhist again.

        But wait, you're not Buddhist! However you're not Not Buddhist!! Which seems to be a direct contradiction, and the statement of a braindead lunatic! Which seems to explain your fondness for vegetables!

        Do u love me?
        I'm beginning to. Don't pressure me. These things take time.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by liutangsanzang View Post
          Fa, u seem to escape my questions.

          About non violence do u think the ideas of Thich Nhat Hann about renouncing eggs from caged chicken are useless?

          Do u love me?
          I'm not avoiding your questions, I am refusing to answer them.
          "For some reason I'm in a good mood today. I haven't left the house yet, though. "

          "fa hui, you make buddhism sexy." -Zachsan

          "Friends don't let friends do Taekwondo." -Nancy Reagan

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          • #20
            Come on Fa. Tell him you love him.

            And good job on the "assertiveness". Never be afraid to assert yourself. Sometimes we prevent ourselves from being more forceful out of respect for others, only to find ourselves screwed by those we try to be respectful to.
            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

            (more comments in my User Profile)
            russbo.com


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            • #21
              Well Z if we fall in love i m sure many girls will fall in love with us. And we can make some mystical tantric circle for world peace.

              Why believe in ghosts or not. A supposed not to lie monk tells a story

              [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCRbcVo8S3c&NR=1"]YouTube - Ven. Gunankaro - Ghost Story 3, Part 1 (10)[/ame]

              If u explore the poster dhammatube he has a ton of videos with Theravada monks
              Namo Guan Yin Pusa / Dont create suffering / Dont harm animals!

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              • #22
                who are the chosen ones?

                is it this buddhist fellow who practices the "highest teaching of the buddha," is it the lamas who practice Powa, is it the christians, hindus, jews, muslims or daoists, the zoroastiranists, siks, shintos, tribesmen of africa, or others?

                i'm not saying anyone is a liar. i truly think they believe what they say. the problem is, so does everyone else.
                ZhongwenMovies.com

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                • #23
                  Why look for the contradictions? There is a lot in common and to look for this community is maybe a way to approach the truth. I say maybe because a bit like u i m very skeptic about religions. But to be maybe is an openness and in my everyday life i m often puzzled by strange coincidences, that seems kind of religious. And i ve wished my friends were more open to spirituality because being alone in a spiritual path can be a source of confusion. One should not keep his strange experiences for himself, thinking other people will call him mad. Talking about it is also a way of doubting your own experience and conclusions.

                  So why look at the contradictions in religion? Doc pointed some texts in the Quran about God's revenge. I feel the doctrine of karma in Indian philosophy is as terrible, thousand of years of suffering. And human history is a mass of suffering. Remember the 6 million children dying every year without medicine? Isnt it a kind of holocaust?

                  U say everyone believes what he says. It was the big problem of Socrates and he wanted to show them their contradictions and that they were just believing. But also remember that Indian philosophies insist on the importance of ignorance and even put it as the root of reality. And that in buddhism it is asked not to believe because of a tradition or a religious teacher but to believe from one s autonomous experience with goodness (and not truth).
                  What s in common between religions? Gandhi said all men are brothers...
                  Namo Guan Yin Pusa / Dont create suffering / Dont harm animals!

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                  • #24
                    About what is in common between religions this video is about similarities between hinduism and islam, by a very knowledgable muslim

                    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdBC6J9C_fU&feature=related"]YouTube - Similarities Between Hinduism and islam pt 1of11[/ame]
                    Namo Guan Yin Pusa / Dont create suffering / Dont harm animals!

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                    • #25
                      There is 11 part of it by the way, if u want it to watch it on youtube.

                      At least sociogically interesting and showing a good aspect of islam.
                      Namo Guan Yin Pusa / Dont create suffering / Dont harm animals!

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                      • #26
                        a person may have false beliefs that help them in their lives, which they know are untrue, like the idea of a god called "guanyin," for example. but they are just helpful, unfounded, aids -- you might say -- nothing more.

                        as for looking for contradictions, if there were none present, well, it simply wouldn't matter and the question would cease to exist. since there are contradictions, however, we examine the issues, question them, and then have opportunities to view things from different, often clearer perspectives.

                        it's a process known as logical negation. certain logical incompatibilities exist between two or more concepts, as is the case with many religious premises, so we elliminate possibilies by stripping away the inconsistencies. sure, we can look for similarities, but without first looking for contradictions (in relation to science, etc), then we just end up putting blinders on. by emphasizing the similarities, we aren't facing the reality of the situation.

                        it's like saying, "peter hits mary, but he's a great husband." again, we can say all the good things peter does, but, in the end, he still hits his wife. to say peter is a great husband is, therefore, a contradiction that can not be true. in other words, a statement must be either true or false; it cannot be both true and false at the same time.

                        but what does one do with this kind of information? seems most religious people would just rather not think about it.

                        i would say there's nothing in common with religious claims at all (that's actually useful), other than the core moral/ethical teachings relative to each one.
                        ZhongwenMovies.com

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                        • #27
                          Derrida on belief and atheism

                          [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3fScS2cnB0&feature=related"]YouTube - Jacques Derrida On 'Atheism' and 'Belief'[/ame]
                          Namo Guan Yin Pusa / Dont create suffering / Dont harm animals!

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