What's missing in the martial arts?

[wooden dummy]

Your problem seems to be with modern day culture in general

Heheh.. yup, I guess ya pretty much hit the nail on the proverbial head there The thing is that at least with films like the Matrix, the umm... less... shall we say, "cranially advanced" among us can enjoy the well-done action sequences, and the interesting, intellectual content is there for those of us who want to look for it. I mean hell, evne my MUM loved that movie, and she hates action films, but thought the plotline was brilliant.

Jim, take it with a pinch of salt. Although Vince still has to clean up his Mr Nice Guy act, (oh shit, what have I got myself into now..) he's very pragmatic and seems to get excited when he comes across someone who he perceives to be naive...

*ahem* well, "maestro"... if that is your real name ... I'm afraid you picked the wrong guy. I'm absolutely certain that you have some real intelligence lurking down in there somewhere under all that hypertension, and I'm sure that when you calm down and start reading people's posts properly before replying to what you think they said, based on your oddly skewed interpretation of their words, that intelligence will shine through a little brighter. As it is, well, I'm sorry but you really just come across as someone who really needs counselling. It seems no matter what I say, you're determined to take it the wrong way and find any possible way to disagree and argue against it, even though we seem to end up arguing the same point most of the time. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree in future So no bad beef, OK? Cool.

Have you seen many Hong Kong and Chinese movies? There is a LOT that is talking about historical events/legends/culture etc.

Yeah, I've seen tons, more than I can remember off the top of my head, but most of them just seem a little... *off*. Obviously there are exceptions, but a lot of the time they suffer from obvious budget cuts, and ineresting historical facts are often offset by silly over-used wire work (though in some cases this comes off very well, CTHD for just one example). There's a few films I've seen recently that are interesting and fun because they take historical characters and put them in weird fictional stories, or reinterpreted versions of true stories, like "Burning Paradise" about fong sai yuk fighting off the ching emperor's soldiers and escaping/freeing his shaolin brothers from imprisonment. But no matter how many of them I see, I *almost* always come away just slightly disappointed, always thinking how much better they could have been with a little more money, or a little more attention paid to good choreography or script, or other such reasons. Alas, they never seem to be thought of as good enough investments for the big cheeses to pay up for.

[Lipster]

Eeeeoow!!

Bad Move Jim!!

LOL

Haven't I seen this before....

[Maestro]

heheh

i think i can take that monk in a fight

[Lipster]

Ok, what the hell just happened...?

[wooden dummy]

ROFL... I'm not sure... I was sort of expecting some kind of catastrophic explosion or something.

I think he's talking about yer pic of Shi Yanzi there...

[dave]

why the heck did you watch "burning paradise" for? LMAO bad acting, bad choreography and it was static dude... the guy only did that movie before fading to obscurity

Hehe, wires are cool - its entertainment not real MA fighting... and for wires HK does it best man, no one else comes close Have you ever seen any of the old Kwan Tak Hing "wong fei hung" shows? They are in black and white and filmed in the 50's and 60's i think. Kinda cool hehe. He made an appearance in Samo Hungs "Magnificent Butcher" as well as wong fei hung.

Also good are Samo Hungs "encounters of the spooky kind" if u want some magic and taoist stuff, kinda funny

Like i said though, if you search hard enough there are some good movies based on real stuff out there... i forget their names but there was some based on "journey to the west" and "outlaws of the marsh" which are 2 classic chinese MA novels.

take it easy and enjoy them for what they are, for anything deeper we have to find it and its more worthwhile

dave

[Wasiqi]

Well I think that may be a huge thing that is lacking in martial arts and possibly the world in general. Ideas. If anything wants to be alive and fresh it constantly must rediscover itself or invent something new. While tradition and history are important as a foundation, new ideas or at the very least freshly modified ideas are what keep the arts or the sciences growing and expanding. Maybe we'll see the emergence of new and refreshing arts that emerge. Or maybe we'll see most of the arts fall in obscurity, waiting in dormancy to be rediscovered. What strikes me is that fact that all these arts that we study today, all were created and expanded by pioneers who were experimenting with potentially dangerous ideas. Take for example the Hard Qigongs, how many people did it take to finally get it all together. And how many of them had to come up with original concepts in order for it work? Maybe that is what is really lacking in martial arts today. Risk takers who are willing to step beyond the conventional. People who though they may look crazy now, might actually be looking for and trying to take that next step.

[Maestro]

or maybe..

OR maybe the way we see things isnt the way they did

just because some styles of martial arts were invented doesnt mean that the inventors were genius's or risk takers or even trial and error fanatics

maybe they knew something you dont(obviously) and they just never told anyone

maybe an alien came from outer space and told them the secrets of kung fu fighting...

or maybe they were inspired during meditation

theres to many maybes for anyone to be sure when talking about art - martial art - technology etc

but one thing im sure of is that there is no lack of new ideas, only someone ignorant(oh jesus) would say such things

for one what do you call the "recent" advancements in military, biochemical, pharmeceutical(spelling?) etc etc technologies?

did you people know that the nazis were the first to experiment with stealth technology(on airplanes) did you know that the steath bombers that were so directly crucial to the success of the gulf war were already inaction in the mid to late seventies and only recently released as public in the late eighties early ninties?

you can even fathom what the military could actually be working on right now?

besides that whos to say whats good "art" and bad art, hasnt anyone ever heard of beauty is in the eye of the beholder? i mean i personally think picoso sux but does that mean what he painted wasnt beautiful? does that mean what he painted was more beautiful then how a childs finger painting is beautiful to a parent?

the arts are constantly changing..constant new ideas, whos to say if they are good or bad music, theatre, clothings(now a form of art) are all constantly in motion

there is no lack of "good" ideas, theres only ideas that appeal to the masses and ideas that appeal to the man

anyway, im not knocking wasiqi, im just saying we live in a world were intelligence is one of the most highly cherished assests of nations..governments whatever and to think that the general public "knows it all" or is on top of whats what in the world is just ludicrous, and to say that there is a lack of good ideas is kind of a "losers" statement, people that feel there is nothing left to contribute to the world are the ones that never really do and end up just serving themselves..

again im not knocking anyone, im just saying

peace

[Wasiqi]

I'm ignorant, that's why I try to continue to learn. I'm not perfect, that's why I try to constantly improve and build upon myself. If you know everything, then you truly are the master of illusions. I'll admit I don't quite agree with you. You seem overly hostile and quick to try and prove everyone wrong. For someone who incorparates Taoist beliefs and Chan buddist beliefs, you sure do like to fight, even if it is with words. So much for compassion and tolerance. Just who are you? An enlightened boddhisitva trying to rouse us all from our slumber? An alien? A simple guy who is trying to be mystical and even though he may not realize it, superior to all he comes upon. An angry boy or girl who is just lashing out because Mom and/or Dad doesn't spend enough time with you? Why all the smoke and mirrors? Pretending to be so smart, but at the same time hiding it in the "I'm a humble buddhist/taoist believer". You are right, there are just too many "maybes" out there for this ignorant jerk to wonder about. What gets me is that classic defense that "nothing is real" thought, that all creation is just an "illusion". Well, if that's the case, then why exist? I don't exist. Then why do I think I do? I just do. Exactly. I just do. In order for an illusion to be effective, there has to be something it can fool. So I'm just temporary thing, floating in a temporary illusionary world. Since there isn't much I can do about this, I choose to try and figure things out and find a way to become a better temporary illusion and find a little bit of fleeting happiness. That's me though. What about you? Just what is hiding in that fishbowl filled with smoke? Maybe it's just more smoke. Trying deseprately to prove that it is not. From what I have seen, the only you are proving that you are worth the carbon that your body is made is by shooting down idea after idea, person after person. For someone who is fond of saying "peace", you sure do like to stir up the wasp nest. Maybe that is your ultimate point, you are so one with your belief that you don't even know if you exist, and if you do, if it's even worth it. But who really knows. It's like the tootsie roll pops, the world may never know. I know I certainly don't. And did you ever notice, whenever someone says "No offense" they are always saying something offensive to that person. Just like "I don't mean to knock Wasiqi." Of course, you do. That's the whole point you said that. Trying to prove me wrong, and knock me off my pedestal. Don't waste your time writing such nonsense. It just makes the post more irratating to those "you don't mean to offend".

[Maestro]

lol

lol waisiqi whats up with the little declaration style post there..i dont think theres any sentence in that whole jumble of craziness that lasted more then 5-6 words.

maybe you need to look at what you post, the people that usually say "i dont mean to offend" usually do mean that, its people like you who misunderstand by being offended anyway

just because they are disagreeing with you..ill say that again..disagreeing with you doesnt meant hey are knocking you or trying to kick you off your pedestal, like you said about me

i wasnt trying to deny you of anything, i was just pointing out the obivous(in my oppinion)

you want to go on being offended by everything i say(which you seem to be..) then go ahead, but just because i disagree with you doesnt mean you need to flip out and attack me as a person which you have no idea what your talking about, people here whove been talking to me for years barely have any idea of who i really am and the same goes for most others..every time i talk to you people i learn more and more but i never assume to know it all

sure ive made my judgements from time to time..but usually while i was angry or annoyed by the repetitious nonsense that constantly surrounds martial arts..martial arts forums..martial artists etc etc

what i think is most of these martial "artists" are just emotionally unresolved, while constantly accusing me and others who disagree with them of having the problem

well maybe so, but all i know is theres no stress in my life baby, im 18 and i just go with flow, i read, i listen, and i move on im not saying i know it all or that im some crazy messiah(hahahahah)

you read where i said chan and taoism have had a big impact on my life..did you miss the part where i said i do not practice any religion? did you miss the part that said i choose which moral and ethics i live by and that i dont even live up to them completely

i live how i want to, and for you to assume what your assuming is ignorant because i know from personal experience

but whatever, maybe im just an ass and you guys are all golden geese

as they say..a goose and a gander flock to together or whatever lol

btw wasiqi maybe its the way i type or something that gives people the idea that im constantly angry but its far from it, im not on a discussion board to make enemys and just cause im a nice guy ill say sorry if i hurt your feelings or whatever, you dont like me "knocking" your post..ok ill be more delicate from now on

peace

[shi_xing_smurf]

I'd just like to take this time to say that I loved that Shaw Brother's movie "Mad Monkey Kung Fu!" , and also the original "Drunken Master" was superb. "Bloodpact" was also kool. And the coolest thing out a martial arts movie I have seen so far is:


The back-flip-kick-thingy Bruce Lee did in "Enter the Dragon"

How awesome was that?

[Lipster]

Vince, it doesn't really matter what your intentions are behind your posts if you don't make them clear; people can only react to what you write, not what you think. If you don't mean to be insulting but you constantly write that they're ignorant, dumb, living on their own planet etc. that comes across as offensive. It's not unreasonable to take offence at offensive phrases, even if you don't mean them - which the other person doesn't know. And that's how all these fights start. So just try and word your posts more civilly...

Preaching over, sorry...

[Maestro]

your..

your half right there lippy

i should word my posts better..but also

people shouldnt be so defensive, and sensitive

the minute someone disagrees with someone or challenges there ideas they get all clammy and freak out

using words like ignorant should be seen as unleashing hell on someone

for god sakes you people are always talking about how you love shaolin and taoism and this and that, do you have any idea how many times youd be called ignorant if your masters could use the words in english? or if you were learning from a genuine source that knew more about the subjects at hand

calling someone ignorant isnt an insult, its not like im over here cackling and drinking wine and turning my noise to you people as if i were better or something

but thats the misconception most people here get about me because of the way they interpret my words

you think its my fault in the way i write? if they were more keen to the subject and the fact that this is a discussion forum they may have the higher insight to see that im not labeling them or insulting them, im just stating my oppinion

people like to think highly of themselves(most of all martial artists) and i cant blame them, its a good way to live, but when you start thinking to highly of yourself, your mind clouds over and you dont see things as clearly as you say you do..like oh i have an open mind because i read alot of books and they are on various subject..yea so what so do librarians get over yourself

people like to talk big around here, but really if they want to practice what they preach they need to start acting like grown ups and realising the petty differences in oppinions arent the end of the world

peace

[Lipster]

Lol, I'm always only half right...

Ok Vince, cool, I hear ya and I'm used to your style aready so I stopped taking offence a while ago. But just remember that not everyone else is as unsensetive as you, and most of the time they respond badly to your phraseology rather then the fact that you're disagreeing.

God bless diversity...


Peace

[wooden dummy]

Well maestro, it's not so much having a problem with your disagreeing with my points (I love a good *friendly* argument), it really is just the way you state them. Do you realise, for example, that it's possible to say someone's missing the point without calling them ignorant or regressing towards personal insults? "Ignorant" might not be a personal insult as far as you're concerned, but to the rest of the world it is, and how people understand what you write always, without exception, takes precedence over what you think you're saying when you write it. You can disagree with someone without using insulting language towards them.

I mean hell, don't get me wrong, I hate political correctness and pussyfooting around a subject, but all the same, I try to avoid offending people unless I perceive that they've started an attack on me, and I'm sorry but most of your posts come off sounding like attacks because you start talking about the people who made the posts, rather than just the posts themselves.

Anyway... we'v ecome a little off-topic lol