online daodejing

[liutangsanzang]

I m just a miserable ignorant imitating the jain path without even believing it. Excuse my weaknesses and tendancies to believe i hold some truth and non violence.

By the way, what about killing insects walking the Dao? I always like this idea of the Dao being a real road where you should not step on insects. Had a beautiful view of the path at Tiger leaping george in Yunnan.

[onesp1ng]

you've been warned....... 　

[liutangsanzang]

About Jains, i think an online version of Daodejing is also a good way to save paper: so no need to cut trees and take the risk to kill insects. Preaching again? Just try to be logical with non violence?

[liutangsanzang]

onesp1ng, where am i from is a good question, though it might not be the right question for curing the suffering of the world. It is like to ask where that arrow comes from.
I think i come a lot from my belly!
But accidentally my body was born in Euskadi, Basque country. You know the place with a lot of wicked extreme left people that traveled to Chile and cannot stand the USA? Though i believe terrorism is not an answer to the evil of the western world, but rather stick to Gandhi's non violence. Yet i am amazed by western countries' evil, in this sense i am influenced by basque's radicalism.

About wuwei i think the concept 順其自然 (letting nature take it's course) is good. It reminds of Aristotle definition of violence that is to go against the natural movement. And again the natural movement of the fish is not to go out of the water. It also reminds of the Jain motto: to live and to let live.

About Jains does anyone knows if this one is from Bodhidhama: "No holliness. The sound of an ant." Has it anything to do with Jains?

[onesp1ng]

ahhh, semantics....... yes, you're right, good point.

but to suggest it is "actionless," which is what i thought was being said, is inappropriate, i think.

[LFJ]

that would be "wei wu wei". we're speaking about "wu wei" here.

and basically, despite the similarities (that you can find between any religions if you look), i dont see buddhism and daoism as really the same at all.

its like buddhism and christianity have similarities if you try, but their differences set them way way apart.

anyhow, back to daoism and daodejing!

[blooming tianshi lotus]

Isn't it generally accepted that it translates as "action in no action"? and buddhism has satori and detachment and loads of other systems ( including martial philosophies) have relative concepts aswell. humility and clear mindedness and right focus come to mind for me. mahayana are good that. particularly warrior mahayana.
conversly, I think ppl rush into bad situations out of panic, and that is nirvana and samara's consideration on that, and that that is causational. we see that.


I heard that Lao Tse and shakyamuni sat on a mountain together and traded philosophies. that would probably be why it's known that daoism has part in the developmental base of buddhism also.
It wasn't really buddhism until the evolved hinduism met that on the confucist stage that it became that at all though, now was it. not officially anyway.



Blooming tianshi lotus.

[LFJ]

onesp1ng,

i wouldnt necessarily call it a poor translation. if you look at it as not "acting", meaning spontaneous action/reaction. not putting on a show, not image conscious, honesty, not "acting".

actually i think thats getting to the point.

[onesp1ng]

無為 is action of the present moment. to say it's "not acting" is not only a poor translation, it's also a misunderstanding of the concept, although it may indeed entail not acting at points, i suppose....

i rather think of it as 和平共處 (living peacefully) with nature, as well as 順其自然 (letting nature take it's course).

where are you from?

[onesp1ng]

you're most welcome FaHui....

[liutangsanzang]

Lao zi is very precious. Some say he was Sakyamuni in his previous incarnation.

His ideas on wuwei are very interesting. I dont know how u translate it in english: not acting? For me wuwei is to follow the freedom of a process. For instance if the fish does not come to you than let it go.

Wuwei is also a good balance to the sometimes over acting compassion of Mahayana.

[Fa Hui]

Thanks Onesp1ng.

[onesp1ng]

recently there has been mention of the daodejing in the site.

i thought i'd just take a minute to share a link to, well, the best, most accurately tranlated version i've personally found online so far. the translator, Sanderson Beck, obviously has a very good understanding of classical chinese, as well as the semantic meanings and nuances involved. the james legge version, as found in the foundations/chinese thought section of the site, doesn't do the actual text justice. a lot of james legge's translation, in fact, is based off other interpretations of the text, not the actual text itself..

hope you enjoy it....

http://san.beck.org/Laotzu.html