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Current migrational patterns and economics: Why Paris is screwed

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  • #16
    You make a strong point Chicken, but I still don't think that makes it O.K. to allow immigrants to come into a nation illegally and remain there illegally. It's just the situation like a car accident or healthcare provided for these "illegals" that creates a drain on the system. The tax dollars of the "legals" go to pay for the people who aren't paying any taxes. That's true of any place where this occurs, be it the U.S., France, or the U.K.. I don't think it's something that should be justified.

    But it's also not something that will change anytime soon, and your point does ring true. So,,,, ahhh welll.... What can you do but accept and deal with it...
    "Winners turn to losers, losers are forgotten..." - A Tribe Called Quest

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    • #17
      I'm a French who lives in the UK, so i could help.

      First of all it's true that Paris' suburbs are ****ed. Real bad. I have lived near one of them - 4 years ago, iand Doc din the south, and it was pretty hardcore. I am now in Paris on a vacation and i can confirm that it hasn't changed, maybe even wortsened.

      The police has always been unfair to Arabics and blacks in France. They would beat them up with phone directories or with wet towels so as to not leave any marks on the body. There is a long history of racisn in France, going back to the Regine of Vichy who collaborated with the Nazis and helped with the extermination of Jews. The mainl Arabic immigration started after the war and it is definitly uner Mitterand's regime that things got worst eqch year.

      They needed workers to reconstruct the country after WW2, they brought thousands of them from north Africa, quickly built hudge coumpounds without even thinking about the consequences of living in such an environment (far away from everything, packed in bulky and ugly towers out of town). However, the first generations enjoyed life i France (still better than in Algeria or Tunisia or Marroco) and their children started loosing their identity and did not feel integrated or accepted by the locals -and this is very very true (Doc has already mentioned it).

      France is a relatively racist country. Recently, a documentary was made, where a white family would be transformed in Blacks and a Black family i White, using expensive make up and wigs. Unbelivably it worked. Both families where from an educated and whealthy background. They were then filmed in the street, looking for jobs, flats, going out in restaurants...It was striking: the white got the jobs, the flats, the best table in restaurants straight away and the black struggled real bad (with equal CV's and recommandations). It showed very well how these black and Arabic people had been treated and what they could feel in their everyday life. This has raised the temperature in the country for years. Add constant discrimination, lower income, limited access to education, drugs and violence, and you get a whole population who's fed up, ready to burst. When the prents are hard workeres, honnest ad respectful people, the kids are in the street whereyou hqve two choices, be bullied or bully. They, 99% of the time, choose to be the bully. They are strong, organised, in groups, and use their teens so the law becomes powerless, and they are always released because kids don't go to jail here. People here fear them, and they know it, use it, and terrorise others. A real hip hop culture too, was born. Frnce is the second country for Hip Hop, after the US!!!and French rap is exellent though...But that's not the topic.

      It's easy to say that France is ****ed but it's not specific to France, this hip hop culture is spreading everywhe, and this negativeness touches everyone even from the higher economical backgrounds...Money doesn't always save us.

      I have lived in London for 4 years, and it is catastrophic too. Kids have no respect, spit on bus drivers and teachers everyday, kill each other with blades or guns, education is poor, people work more and more so the children are let behind...In my neighborhood i London, kids smoke and drink beer, their older brothers take cocaine and steal or bully, when the parents pobably work their asses like hell to manage to pay the huge rents and taxes and all the rest. London is not safe either, but no need to mention Manchester or Birmingham where it is even worst. And as these kids drop out of school, foreigners donùt only do the dirty jobs (the jobs English didn't want of) there are lots of qualified people coming from all over the world to take these vcant jobs...When the British end up without work... The UK, and it has nothing to do with race, is ****ed too. People are scared too. Suburbs too, are dangerous, maybe not as much as in Paris but it looks like ti's going the right way. There is racism, there always has been in the UK, but i have to admit that it still is easier for Africans and Asians to setle and work in the UK, where if u work hard you get respect whatever ur colour is. It's not always true but thats how i felt it.

      I sill think Paris is a great city, beautiful, and safe as long as you stay in town. I just came bqck from a day ou and it's great, u guys should get there one day.

      If only people where not such cowards and if the government had just a tiny understanding of the situation, things could get better. The question is, is it too late? I think it might be.

      Enough struggle tiping with this strange keyboard§

      Cheers
      The East? The West?

      Men and Women, that's all...

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      • #18
        LOS ANGELES - Film director Bob Clark, best known for the beloved holiday classic “A Christmas Story,” was killed with his son Wednesday in a car wreck, the filmmaker’s assistant and police said.

        Clark, 67, and son Ariel Hanrath-Clark, 22, were killed in the accident in Pacific Palisades, said Lyne Leavy, Clark’s personal assistant.

        The two men were in an Infiniti that collided head-on with a GMC Yukon around 2:30 a.m. PST, said Lt. Paul Vernon, a police spokesman. The driver of the other car was under the influence of alcohol and was driving without a license, Vernon said.

        The driver, Hector Velazquez-Nava, 24, of Los Angeles, remained hospitalized and will be booked for investigation of gross vehicular manslaughter after being treated, Vernon said. A female passenger in his car also was taken to the hospital with minor injuries and released, police said.
        Typical story in the southwest of the US now.

        Drunk, immigrant, illegal?, uninsured healthwise and automobile wise...?
        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

        (more comments in my User Profile)
        russbo.com


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        • #19
          From today's news:
          LOS ANGELES - A driver arrested after the crash that killed “A Christmas Story” director Bob Clark and his son pleaded not guilty Friday to two counts of gross vehicular manslaughter while intoxicated.

          Prosecutors say Hector Velazquez-Nava, a 24-year-old Mexican national, was drunk when he steered his sport utility vehicle into the wrong lane of Pacific Coast Highway early Wednesday, and struck Clark’s sedan. Clark, 67 and his son, Ariel Hanrath-Clark, 22, died at the scene.

          Velazquez-Nava had a blood-alcohol level of 0.24 percent, three times the legal limit, authorities said. Both he and his passenger were treated for minor injuries.

          “The family of Velazquez-Nava ... are very much hurt and they want to offer their deepest condolences to the family, to the Clark family,” said defense attorney John Borges.

          Velazquez-Nava was being held on $200,000 bail, although a federal immigration hold prevents him from posting bail. Immigration officials have said he is in the country illegally.

          If convicted, he could face at least 10 years in state prison,
          Sad, that this being so common, I accurately predicted it.
          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

          (more comments in my User Profile)
          russbo.com


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          • #20
            I'd like to know how he could afford an SUV?

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            • #21
              Well, although i'm not in the US to see by myself, and i understand that these Mexicans seem to bring lots of problems to your country,

              1st: Out of true misery and poverty, if you heard of an Eldorado just next, what would u do?

              2nd: A drunk Mexican illegal immigrant killed some natives on the road. That is a terrible thing. But on the same day, how many native Americans did kill on the road for the same reason?

              3rd: Who's guilty, the illegal immigrant or the native who hires him? Would they come if they knew no one would give them work?

              4th: With regards to the honnest illegal immigrants (i mean who do not disrespect the law in any other way than by their illegitimate presence in your country) that work like hell for miserable wages, while some live luxury lifes sitting on their asses earning enough money to feed Africa, don't you feel a little bit of compassion and empathy?


              I'd be happy to get a better insight of this issue and to hear from US natives on the subject. Thanks
              The East? The West?

              Men and Women, that's all...

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              • #22
                Flow, good questions. Let me add this, for thought, from an email petition I got, concerning an issue now in Nevada (and many other states):

                State Sen. Bob Beers (R-Las Vegas) has introduced a bill (SB 325) which, as described by the Associated Press, would designate English as the official state language and "with limited exceptions, requires that all official proceedings of the state be conducted in English." In addition, "the bill requires that all official records of the state be prepared, stored and made available in English, and requires that all official publications of the state be printed in English."

                What problem could there possibly be in naming an official state language? After all, we have an official animal (Desert Bighorn Sheep), an official bird (the Mountain Bluebird), an official fish (the Lahontan Cutthroat Trout), an official flower (sagebrush), an official fossil (Ichthyosaur), an official gemstone (black fire opal), an official semi-gemstone (turquoise), an official grass (Indian Rice Grass), an official reptile (desert tortoise), an official rock (sandstone), an official slogan ("Battle Born"), an official tree (Single-Leaf Pinion), an official song ("Home Means Nevada"), and even an official motto ("All for our Country").

                So why NOT an official language?

                But Nevada Senate Minority Leader Dina Titus (D) calls the bill "extreme." And a leader of the Latin Chamber of Commerce called it "racist."
                Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                (more comments in my User Profile)
                russbo.com


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                • #23
                  I dont understand:

                  Is English not the official language in Nevada at the moment? It sounds quite amaizing...

                  Does this article imply that Spanish would be banned from all official proceedings? Does this imply that the state would provide an army of translators and interpreters or just tell immigrants to learn English or to go away?


                  Although i believe that the original language of the host country has full priority (if u consider that it is English and not Navajo), i also believe that a certain form of linguistic accompaniment should be provided to mature migrant workers (England is a very good example of it, and as i am in the business i do understand this necessity).

                  I sometimes feel angry at these people here in the UK who don't bother learning even a few words of English, who always criticize the country and pay no respect to the country that feeds and protects them. I have met many of these people who do no wish to integrate anything eles than the economical market. They keep on praising their original country and i always fell quite upset about it.

                  However, i understand that most of them are mature people, who spent more than half their lifes somewhere else, and they barely went to school (some of my students are completely illiterate). It is extremely difficult for them to integrate and learn the language. Their kids or younger immigrants do it very well!
                  The East? The West?

                  Men and Women, that's all...

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I think that this is a reflection on what is happening in other areas of the US. There are so many Mexicans, for example, in some parts of Texas, that few people in some towns actually speak English. And because most everything is transacted in Spanish, there is no reason for these people to learn English. As more and more of these people envelop communities, this process expands. So the fear is, in some communities in Texas, that the English language is going to be lost, especally when it comes to legalities, newspapers, etc. You have some towns starting to do this process of making English the official language.

                    Funny, actually, since America is made up of immigrants, and never before was there a need to make an "official" language. People came to the US and learned the language. They assimilated into our culture, granted, enriching it (and detracting from it), but they assimilated. Assimilated doesn't mean "changed". There is a difference.

                    Nevada is taking steps to, well, who knows. As if this is going to change anything. Las Vegas is officially 25% Mexican, and more likely, over 40%. Most of them are illegals. Almost all of the illegals have no car insurance, health insurance, nor pay taxes. So, guess what?

                    The people that are "registered", ie, have social security numbers, addresses, insurance, etc, are going to have to pay more to support the costs of those who don't pay. Simple economics.

                    It's taking its toll already.
                    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                    (more comments in my User Profile)
                    russbo.com


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                    • #25
                      Classic email. Says it all (about America, well, especially the southwest...)

                      Subject: Math 1950-2007

                      Last week I purchased a burger at Burger King for $1.58. The counter
                      girl took my $2 and I was digging for my change when I pulled 8 cents
                      from my pocket and gave it to her. She stood there, holding the nickel
                      and 3 pennies, while looking at the screen on her register. I sensed her
                      discomfort and tried to tell her to just give me two quarters, but she
                      hailed the manager for help . While he tried to explain t he transaction
                      to her, she stood there and cried. Why do I tell you this?

                      Answer: Because of the evolution in teaching math since the 1950's

                      1. Teaching Math In 1950

                      A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production
                      is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit?


                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      2. Teaching Math
                      In 1960

                      A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production
                      is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit?


                      --------------------------------------------------------------------
                      3. Teaching Math In 1970

                      A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production
                      is $80. Did he make a profit?


                      -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                      4. Teaching Math In 1980

                      A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production
                      is $80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20.


                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      5. Teach ing Math In 1990

                      A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and
                      inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the
                      preservation of our woodlands. He does
                      this so he can make a profit of
                      $20. What do you think of this way of making a living? Topic for class
                      participation after answering the question: How did the birds and
                      squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes?
                      There are no wrong answers. )


                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      6. Teaching Math In 2007

                      Un hachero vende una carretada de maderapara $100. El costo de la
                      producciones es $80. Cuanto dinero ha hecho?
                      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                      "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                      (more comments in my User Profile)
                      russbo.com


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                      • #26
                        What's funny is that I actually do math from the 1950's.
                        "For some reason I'm in a good mood today. I haven't left the house yet, though. "

                        "fa hui, you make buddhism sexy." -Zachsan

                        "Friends don't let friends do Taekwondo." -Nancy Reagan

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                        • #27
                          Muslim Demographics

                          I think you'll find this interesting. It's what I've been saying for years...

                          [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU"]YouTube- Muslim Demographics[/ame]
                          Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                          "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                          (more comments in my User Profile)
                          russbo.com


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                          • #28
                            Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat

                            Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life.
                            Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components.
                            Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.
                            When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well..


                            Here's how it works:

                            As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:


                            United States -- Muslim 0..6%
                            Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
                            Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
                            China -- Muslim 1.8%
                            Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
                            Norway -- Muslim 1.8%


                            At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:

                            Denmark -- Muslim 2%
                            Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
                            United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
                            Spain -- Muslim 4%
                            Thailand -- Muslim 4..6%


                            From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

                            France -- Muslim 8%
                            Philippines -- 5%
                            Sweden -- Muslim 5%
                            Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
                            The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
                            Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%


                            At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

                            When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:
                            Guyana -- Muslim 10%
                            India -- Muslim 13.4%
                            Israel -- Muslim 16%
                            Kenya -- Muslim 10%
                            Russia -- Muslim 15%


                            After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

                            Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%


                            At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

                            Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
                            Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
                            Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%


                            From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:

                            Albania -- Muslim 70%
                            Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
                            Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
                            Sudan -- Muslim 70%


                            After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

                            Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
                            Egypt -- Muslim 90%
                            Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
                            Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
                            Iran -- Muslim 98%
                            Iraq -- Muslim 97%
                            Jordan -- Muslim 92%
                            Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
                            Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
                            Palestine -- Muslim 99%
                            Syria -- Muslim 90%
                            Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
                            Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
                            United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%


                            100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:

                            Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
                            Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
                            Somalia -- Muslim 100%
                            Yemen -- Muslim 100%

                            Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

                            'Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel. -- Leon Uris, 'The Haj'

                            It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate.

                            Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century.

                            Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat
                            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                            (more comments in my User Profile)
                            russbo.com


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                            • #29
                              I havent read the last posts. Though "I" "am" bask, I ve spent 20 years in Paris and feel no threat from muslims at a politikal level. U will note that though amerikans kill civilians in Afghanistan there have been no terrrorist attack in France.

                              Doc, r u paranoiac?
                              Namo Guan Yin Pusa / Dont create suffering / Dont harm animals!

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                              • #30
                                No. I try to look at things realistically based upon my experience and education.
                                Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                                "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                                (more comments in my User Profile)
                                russbo.com


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