Whoring in Thailand

[Carona]

The last 5 years I have been doing some tourguiding. It's volunteer work for a non profit organisation which tries to promote travelling in a respectful manner towards nature, local culture, etc. We travel in small groups ( from 5 to 10) and try to interact as much as posible with the locals. Meaning putting our money into the local economy and getting to know people and their culture, sometimes participating in some local NGO managed project. Most trips are about a month.

I've guided groups in Europe, Africa, Asia and latin America and I never found a country free of prostitution. I had groups in Malasia and saw a lot of prostitution in Kuala Lumpur, men, women and children being offered. The statement about malaysia seems very naive to me.

Being the tour guide makes you see things differently than you would as a tourist. I mean everybody wants to be friends with the tour guide. Hotel owners invite you to dinner, let you stay for free when you're waiting for your group to arrive. Restaurants, bars, souvenirshops,...etc offer free meals, drinks and comissions.
Everybody want to be your partner to make sure your groups spends their money in their place.
And so do the pimps and prostitutes.

I can't remember how many pimps and whores told me all about their lives and business. Same goes for the times I 've been offered comission on jobs or free rides.

Some people are into prostitution for not having an alternative. Violent pimps, drugs, debts, being kidnapped, illegal imigrant with no papers... etc. I suppose we all pretty know what I am saying. I've seen and heard things that just make you want to cry.


But I've also talked to girls who just plain love what they do. Beautiful young women who go out to have fun and if they like some guy take him home to be ****ed by him and get paid for it. Girls without pimps who decide wether or not and by whom they get ****ed.

Whoring is said to be the oldest profession in the world and I don't see anything wrong with it. Indepent from the fact wether it's to feed yourself or your family or just to be able to buy designers clothes or not wanting to get a 9 to 5 job. People are free to do with their bodies whatever they want.

Where things start to get ****ed up is when someone starts calculating how much money he can make by making other people offering themselves for payment. Cold economics can turn really easyly into organised crime operations that include any type of violence towards the prostitutes who almost don't make enough to live working various clients all day.

Some examples:

an albanian girl that was brought to western europe to work the streets with false promises of decent work. She didn't make enough money according to her pimps so they decided to break her leg and put it back together with a twist so she would collect more money begging. She ended up being the cheap **** for customers who didn't want to pay the normal girls and didn't mind her deformed leg.

Nigerians girls who do their jobs right on the streets in between 2 parked cars for less than 5 dollar because their pimp threatens them with voodooshit.

I guess you get the idea.

If one of my tourists wants to use the services of a local adult girl who is controlling the situation and is doing it out of free will, then I am fine with that. The girl can charge the tourist more than her local clients and both end up "satisfied". I'll even talk to both beforehand to make sure everything happens in a respectful and correct manner.
But in my groups I do not want people going to whores who are part of some kind of organisations that afterwards takes away the money she just made by being humiliated.I never accepted any of the favors or money I've been offered because I don't want to participate in this and end up being a pimp.

I believe the problem isn't the whoring but the big money making involved. Drugs, diamonds, whores, oil, weapons are not evil in my opinion. But all these things are the reason for a lot of suffering and bloodshed. There's a lot of money to be made with these "products".

Reggaelegend Horace Andy sang money, money, money, is the root of all evil.

[doc]

Maybe your anger should be better directed at the American, British and European men that travel to Thailand, Vietnam, the Philippines, etc, than towards those countries and their governments themselves.

And these women have choices. There are many other jobs that they can do, but, when you're face with making two hundred bucks a month in McDonalds for a fifty hour work week, or, working in a bar at night with the possibility of making a grand or two a month, and, meeting the guy that's going to give you a "good life", well, for some of these girls, the choice is pretty easy. Some are not happy with what they do, some have a great time doing it.

I never said it was right. I never said that this was good. I'm just saying, that's the way it is. We don't live in a perfect world. And, it's getting less perfect the older I get.

[flow]

Very interesting post.

I though I made it clear that my criticism was of the Thai government and of the Sex tourists...A system than encourages pimping for the men and prostitution for the women. Not a criticism of these women that, how you said, were led by poverty.

You have different types of "clients". The guy who came to this country for that; he has done research on where to find the best massage parlours, did not even bother learning "hello" and "byebye" in Thai but "suck me" "turn over"...The guy who knows what he came for, to eploit his money as much as he can in order to buy a maximum human bodies and satisfy all his perversions on teenagers in a poor country before he gets back to his rich country and goes to Church on a Sunday with a big smile on his face, telling his mates how many girls he ****ed and how. This one, I despise.

Then, there is the guy who didn't really come for that, but gets tempted once or twice, by really insistant girls (who really want his money), and just couldn't resist...That's ok, he did not initiate it, he probably had no-one to do it with in a long time (LOL) and won't spend the rest of his stay looking for more. I'm not a puritan, and I'm aware of the substance of human nature...At least I hope.

It's probably ok for some (not too bad) and worst for others, although f-u-c-king 10/15 men a day minimum is not a dream life for a girl (i guess, r there women here to express their opinion?).

Your criticism of Malaysia and (moderated) Islam is probably right, I never said that Malaysia was an idyllic country. We're kind of opposing two extremes.

In the majority Malay women live a good life -it's not Afghanistan. Even the poor have access to a good standard of education, are very protected and loved by their families, you can always see a smile on their face (overgeneralizing here so you can see the pic but it's true), and hopefully they have a large Chinese and Indian community that helps watering down the country's general "feel". This is not the case in other Muslim countries where Islam is the only possible religion, dictated by fear. But let's say that it's out of topic. The rights of women...I just think I'd prefer my daughter to wear a scarf on the head, go to school and get a job than to go to a whorehouse by necessity. That's personal.

Furthermore, I am perfectly aware that although Thailand is amongst the favourite countries of sex tourists, it is not the only country having this problem. Whoring has always existed, everywhere, as you pinpointed. You can get cheaper, fresher and younger meat in the Phillipines, and over there it is really worst than in Thailand, regarding the girls safety as I heard.

Then comes the notion of choice...Well if you have a gun on your head and are asked to do something, do you still have the choice? Arguable.

If led by poverty (the gun on your head) you're told you can make more money than ever in Bangkok or Pattaya to feed your family (atually not to feed them but to make their life easier), it has to be rather tempting. But is there a choice? A real free choice?

Forget it, wherever there is poverty, there is prostitution. You've mentioned it (China, the Philippines, Russia, Europe, the US, etc...). You have gorgotten to mention the 300 other countries that make our world.

My argument is:

If my neighbour beats his wife, should I do the same and feel justified by the fact he does it too? Is there any kind of progress in this kind of thinking?

to say that Thailand is one big whorehouse is just wrong

I agree with that. I love this country, the way of life, the culture, the martial arts, the history of independance, the religion, the FOOD everything! I guess when you love you care...But I don't wanna sound naive so hey, there is nothing you and I can do but maybe not to caution prostitution when we go there, and show that we Farangs are not all the same, some of us have dignity and respect for their hosts.

[Steve]

I am not saying prostitution is right or wrong, but I am never going to forget that damn little Thai girl's tongue.

[doc]

Doc, certainly did not mean to offend anyone and if I did I apology. Thailand is a wonderful country. But myself not being the typical sanctimonious type of dude, I still find what happens there really disgusting.

When you see planes full of mature single men leaving for Bangkok every single day (I used to work in an Airport, I've seen the queues before check in...), 365 days a year, you know they're not all business men. Not all pedophiles either but certainly not angels if u see what I mean?!I see them as hogs, consumers...But anyway the Thai know who is who there is no doubt about it, they get the respect they deserve -I hope?

I say this is also Thailand's fault to encourage and protect these men who come to consumme human bodies... led by poverty to the meticulous destruction of their bodies and souls. And worst is, if they stopped coming, the country would collapse. The young teen will still have to sell her ***** for 10 years before if she's not distroyed she could finance her studies...

It's not about prostitution itself, it's about the magnitude this phenomenon has taken...I felt the same when I was in Amsterdam, where u know everything is legal...Whores are in a showcase in exhibition, u pass by and make your choice...Most of them being forced by pimps who brought them to Holland from East-Europe telling them they would work in an office. Beaten up, raped, drugged, sullied...That's their everyday life.

I'd like to hear your views on the subject though, regarding Thailand, do you deny this fact? How do you live it from the inside?

I find living it on the inside quite easy. I have nothing to do with the whoring and such that goes on here; I, as well as all of my farang (foreigner) friends, expats and such, have steady long term girlfriends and wives. We have no interaction with the nonsense that goes on in certain parts of the island, or, in Bangkok for that matter.

To think that prostitution, and the concept of prostitution, is limited to Thailand, is very short sighted. I think that if you read my Journals from China, especially the last ones (the Discovery Channel shoot), you'll find that it's overwhelmingly present there, in fact, over the past ten years I've been going, it's gotten to be more "in your face" and less secretive. Young women from poor parts of the country flock to areas where they can make money, and they do so not so that they can get drugs and BMW's (as the whores/strippers/girls in Las Vegas, Los Angeles, San Diego, etc), but so that they can take care of their parents. Imagine that. Prostituting yourself so that you can take care of your mom. It's accepted. It's part of life. Contrast that to the women you find doing similar things in the US, and you'll start to understand that, in a way, it's part of the culture.

And not only in Thailand and China. But you'll find it in the Philippines, one of the most Christian countries in the world. When I go there to do my annual medical mission (I see and take care of poor villagers in the Cebu area), the overwhelming presence of bars (whore houses) is not easy to disregard. Some of the largest nightclub buildings are outrignt whorehouses. I've been told that Anglis City is an entire city of whoring.

It's life in Asia. It's the way it is. It's the whole concept of survival for these people. And if you talk to some of these girls, most of them really don't like doing what they're doing, but they do it to take care of their families. And, ironically, to find a husband. Some do, and they move on with happy marriages. It's a bit bizarre if you ask me, but, in some ways, this whole whoring thing that you find here, in a way, is almost like their version of dating for us in the west. To some of these girls, it's a way to find a boyfriend. To some, who have developed "dark hearts", they've descended truly into the pits of hell with this, and get involved with drugs and god knows what else. Some really deteriorate into the lifestyle, much as a good deal of the Las Vegas strippers do.

I don't condone prostitution. I'm not saying it's a good thing. But it's part of life in MANY parts of the world. In Russia, forget it. It's everywhere. In fact, when we see Russian women here in Thailand, 98% of the time, they're with mafia types. These women are whores, much as they are in Vegas when they go there to strip. Russian bars tend to be whore houses. Eastern European girls travel to the Caribbean to work in island "clubs" to make money, and meet men, all in an effort to support themselves, or, find a newer, better lifestyle. You'll find it all over in China, in Vietnam, Thailand, Philippines, and the US. It's prevalent in Europe, and it's advertised in Holland. To think that this is not a common way of life throughout the world is laughable.

So, to say that Thailand is one big whorehouse is just wrong. There are many wonderful women here that have never gotten involved in this sort of thing, just as there are many wonderful women in China, the Philippines, Russia, Europe, the US, etc, who have not either. Not sure I can say the same thing about Vegas, oh, another story, lol.

You probably won't find this sort of thing in Malaysia. In the Muslim dominanted societies, I doubt you'll find prostitution to any degree. But, don't think that these people are all that clean in this regard. Their treatment of women in many ways is far worse than the whole concept of prostitution. The Quran makes it clear that for a woman to claim rape against a man, there must be four other men who have witnessed it. A woman's word is only worth half of what a man's word is worth. Women can be abused at will, with little repercussions. And so on.

So, you think about what's better. Your repressive society in Muslim dominated worlds, where prostitution is not allowed, or, your other societies in Asia, where prostitution is accepted, and women do as they please. Remember something. These women do this of their own free will. In other countries, that participate in Sharia law, their free will is limited, sometimes, to a significant degree.

Enjoy your time in Thailand. It's a wonderful country, full of wonderful people. You can live here without any sort of interaction with these "elements" that you seem to think are evil, and, at the same time, have a fruitful and wonderful life.