Shaolins vs. UFC/Pride

[master-lu]

I think anyone who believes that a guy can practice only forms for several years by him self in the mountains and never fight a living person and still be a fierce fighter is a nut!!!! I dont care what you do all day every day in your life if you never apply your skills in real combat you will never be a real warrior! I am not saying that UFC guys are real warriors they are ring warriors and great sportsmen- anyone here dare face them in the ring? Street fight real fight is significantly different from sport fight. Still the so called shaolin monks are useless and in the ring they would all get their asses kicked! Same thing on the street facing real angry crazy people. Ive practised kung fu for some time- the important thing is to experience real combat until you do you can not consider yourself a fighter of any kind. I realised this after being attacked a couple of times by loonies on drugs, that i liked getting hit, i liked combat and beating people up, and there is no greater satisfaction to a warrior then leaving the battle field with bruises!!!! I love it! its real- i do real kung fu- xinyi the non bullshit aproach to fighting. to summaries
- KUNG FU IS GREAT its real combat! It contains the ultimate fighting skills! Shaolin monks suck they discredit their great heritage. all who practice kung fu in a dancing fashion put shame to the art thats why people look down on kung fu. But you should see the looks on peoples faces including grapplers when they find themselves slammed to the ground! They ask me whats that- I say its REAL kung fu! Shit you wont find in most so called kung fu schools.( I work as a bouncer thats why i fight so much- im really not a violent man and i am not crazy!!!!) just wanted to clarify that!

[master splinter]

uh......

i'll have some of whatever HE is on...

[michael289]

I think they call it PCP.

[renato]

grrr

( I work as a bouncer thats why i fight so much

a bouncer huh? well that explains a lot...

well, um. master-lu. i'm sure there's nothing as cool as beating up drunk 16 year olds. and in your cartoon world, when they laying on the ground asking who kicked sand in their eyes, you must feel like a real hero.

i was just wondering if you ever heard of that oh so fabulous dance called sanshou?

[zachsan]

I work as a bouncer thats why i fight so much- im really not a violent man and i am not crazy!!!!) just wanted to clarify that!

No man, you're crazy. Don't run away from it... embrace it.

[master-lu]

Yes well if im crazy i will try to embrace it! thanks that was a good tip i like it! As for that other fool- renato. you missed the point! First of all. In Sweden your not aloud to go out to clubs and drink at the age of sixteen! 18 is the minimum age and even at 18 you wont be let in to most places. Cartoon world thats the world you live in kid. What i talk about is real experience from real situations any one in any country who has ever been in real fights forced to defend themselves, can understand, relate to and appreciate what im talking about. It is not about beating helpless people or kids- if thats what you think than that says a lot about your own caracter. Perhaps you've been beat up and didnt like it, ran home crying.- well you are not awarrior of any kind thats for sure. And from your reply i sence fear. fear of the truth, the realness and the warrior. Sanshou is a sport- you try that on the streets and see how it works out for without rules and judges. You think the agressor will stand around taking kicks to the legs? Get real man. I wont claim that i know you. But i believe you are some kind of wimp- not in a bad way or anything but i think you are afraid of combat. You should not be in this forum you should be discussing the joys of splits, flips and modern wushu, not kung fu and pride since both of these are about fighting. The Shaolin way is the way of the warrior-monk other kung fu styles stress the way of the warrior leaving out the monk part. If you have no intress in being a warrior/fighter nor the understanding of these, kung fu is not for you. But you could still be a nice guy!!!
Warrior is a state of mind, a mind set. About looking danger straight in the eye and standing firm, facing it in righteousness. For that maybe you need to be a little crazy. But in battle THERE ARE NO RULES!!! / Love russbo by the way been checking it out for a long time and still enjoy it. looking forward to more comments on my views- any other warriors out there? with some real experience of applying thier kung fu?

[renato]

wow. i'm feeling so hurt. and humiliated. i'm just gonna go stick a needle in my eye.

[renato]

Hey Master-Lu (cough cough), I’d like to explain something to you. I know you think you have me all figured out, which is odd since we’ve never even met. Or have we? You not that guy who keeps sending me his frilly underwear are you? I’m not even gonna respond to your childish comments, though i may make some of my own. But yours aren't even funny. Anyway, see if you can keep your temper till you’ve at least read the whole of my post.

Firstly I’ve not been in a fight since I was ten. The last person I hit was my little sister and only because that’s what big brothers are supposed to do.

I personally find that speaking to people is a way better method of resolving disputes than hitting them. Then at least both parties may walk away with a better understanding of each other. This is a theory I’ve had opportunity to test. In my short life I’ve had three guns pulled on me in two separate incidents and I’ve even had a Hells Angel pull a knife on me!

Having said that I knowledge of what makes a good bouncer. Both my father and brother have worked as bouncers and neither of them has EVER been in a fight on the job. This is inspite of them working in Johanesburg, South Africa, a city I think you might really enjoy... Not as quite as Sweden. So here’s my take on you.


what's bold is quoted form your original post...


I dont care what you do all day every day in your life if you never apply your skills in real combat you will never be a real warrior!

This quote of yours makes me think that you’re the kind of person who enforces their opinion and isn’t open to discussion.

Still the so called shaolin monks are useless and in the ring they would all get their asses kicked!

Again, here you speak with such confidence. I guess you personally have met and fought every Shaolin Monk out there huh? You bad ass.

the important thing is to experience real combat until you do you can not consider yourself a fighter of any kind.

Dude, you rock. Thank you for sharing your law with this low life. Now I know that taking time to smell the flowers is in fact not the most important thing.

I realised this… that i liked getting hit

Not judging you man. I myself enjoy a bit of light S&M occasionally. You might want to watch those head blows though…

i liked combat and beating people up,

Now we getting somewhere! This is a major reason why I reacted like I did. I personally don’t believe that this is a trait of a good bouncer, for obvious reason!


And to top it all off you reacted way overboard to my post! Another good bouncer trait huh?

[master-lu]

You're funny man! I agree with a lot of things here but do you seriosly believe that you can talk your way out of an attack that has already begun? There is a big difference. Talking is used to avoid a fight. (which is what all warriors and regular people too, allways should try to do)Thats not what i am talking about though. I´m talking about the situation where you are already in it- big difference try talking your way out of that. I is obvious that you didn't understand what i meant. If you have never been attacked in Johannesburg- well you and your bouncer brother are lucky guys! Violence can occur anywhere anyone human can try to tear the next one apart, that goes for calm cold Sweden aswell- you know that! (Check the Hells Angels web site you'll find them in Sweden too i know some myself)There are drugs in all countries and people drink like hell in Sweden that is the main reason behind most, but not all, fights. I have never been attacked by a person who was not on drugs, cocaine and extacy mostly sometimes alcohol on top of that. It makes somepeople go nuts if you have never seen it well- once again youre a lucky guy your johannesburgh does not sound one bit like the johennseburgh i heard about. No barfights no drugs nothing? wow i'm moving. Hopefully a sober person would not attack you but phsychos can be found anywhere and sure most of the time people will listen to reason but not allways.Talking is fine and anyone should try it just not during the actual ass kicking- thats when you fight or run like hell! Even you can't disagree with that.

[michael289]

Master-lu, your last post was very logical. I agree with your views on "talk your way out when you can"; "know how to kick ass for the times you can't". If your zeal for being prepared for those "times you can't" is what you mean by being a warrior, then I agree.

Just so you know: your first post on this thread did make you sound like a rabid loonatic. It even made you sound like you yourself might have been on drugs. You also said some things that show that your knowledge of shaolin and other kung fu styles is not very accurate. As for a monk getting his ass kicked on the street. . . I doubt that. So he has a knowledge of hundreds of forms -many of them "flowery." That doesn't mean that that's all he knows. I guarantee he knows all the "non-bullshit" stuff you are talking about as well. For example: are you aware that "shaolin" kung fu isn't just one "style"? It is actually many different styles that are taught together? They include Tiger, Preying Mantis, Crane, Drunken style, Xing yi, Ba Gua, etc. Yes, I did say Xing yi. That is a style that they teach. You didn't know that did you? The world of kung fu is far more vast than you realize at this point. There are hundreds of different kung fu styles and many of them don't look anything like what you have seen so far.

You said some things that were very incorrect and it obviously aggrivated some readers of your post because you were very "forceful" about your assertions. I just wanted you to understand why. We're all here to learn.

By the way, do they teach Ba gua where you learn Xing yi?

[onesp1ng]

xingyi and bagua may be taight in shaolin, but, i don't recall them being shaolin styles, if that's what you were saying. i practice baji, not either of the others, so i'm not too sure about it. although baji contains attributes of both, their histories/origins are all quite different.

[michael289]

Yeah, I guess you're right, onesp1ng. I do recall that they were originally "family" styles and not created by a temple monk, but I was under the impression that they had been integrated into the actual curriculum at the temple some centuries back just the same way that some of the other styles they teach were integrated at one time or another. For example, Eagle Claw was originally a royal style forbidden to all except the royal guards. During the Ming dynasty, the relationship between the Shaolin temple and the royal family was very intimate and the monks were allowed to exchange martial skills with the royal personage. Eagle Claw was then taught at shaolin for some time. I don't know if it still is or not. I was referring to a "shaolin" style as any style that was taught in the shaolin curriculum before say. . 1850 or so. I guess that would be less correct than using "shaolin" to mean any style that was actually developed by a shaolin monk at the temple. I don't know as much about it as I would like to. If you have a different spin on any of this, I'd like to hear it.

Tell me about Baji. I've never heard of it. Where does it come from and what is it like?

[Maestro]

the origination of styles is mostly myth mixed in with fact, for all we know atleast..what we are told could all very well be true but whos to know what is true or not, there are no actual documents and even still they are usually different depending on who you ask. what u want to do when comparing chinese arts is look for similaritys in training and principles.

shaolin arts as far as ive seen always go from hard to soft. all masters say it is easier to do so, students progress quicker this way and it is just characteristic of shaolin arts both northern and southern to train in such a way.

from my experience so called "external" pracs usually have a better understanding of internal and how to apply yao kiu(soft bridge) better then most so called internal boxers.

xing yi really has nothing to do with shaolin. the footwork is different, the energy is more focused in a straight line, whereas shaolins energy goes in all directions, not to say a xing yi fighter cant or doesnt its just the style itself is this way.

bagua definately isnt shaolin gung fu. supposedly dong hai chuan was a shaolin master but the style he created is trained differently and is characteristically different from any other shaolin style.

but..at the highest levels if your basics are powerful and your footwork solid you could very well pick up either of these arts and within a short time be a proficient fighter, moreso by absorbing the principles and basics of the style.

this is my oppinion though

[master-lu]

too michael289
Just so you know: your first post on this thread did make you sound like a rabid
loonatic- You are right! And it made some people think hard and start applying themselves too. Thats what i wanted. Many of our writers here kid around so much so i wanted to provoke some real response- an excellent way of doing this was by attacking the so called shaolin monks. I agree with you i did sound like i my self was on drugs but thats what made it fun and interesting. It brought life to the forum. You have understood the warrior part. Its very simple to understand, anyone would have agreed had i just put it as simple as you just did by saying be prepared to kick ass when talking fails or when attacked. There is really nothing new and spectacular about that so i hyped it up.

I know about all the forms and styles you talk about i have seen most of them and met several monks. I know that some can fight and i know that most of them can't and even more of them are no real shaolin monks. They are government sanctioned wushu people in robes. A buddhist monk does not perform for money or fame!!! You all know this.
I want to clarify that there is nothing wrong with practising a form for combat- that is what i do. There are different forms. Some are no good for fighting they were disigned for exhibitions.
Have you a traditional form you should practice it in all its aspects. Many real traditional forms contain excellent fighting methods and excersises. These should be studied in detail and applied. Do this and build your spirit then you can face combat.
The spirit part is the most important!!!! The spirit MAKES the warrior, IS the warrior! All techniques are useless to you if you in the heat of combat lack the spirit. So my point about Warriors really only deals with Spirit and nothing else. You don't need gong fu to have spirit, anyone can have it, most people don't but anyone can. I have alot of friends who train in a lot of different arts. Regular western boxing, MMA wing chun etc.. My self i trained in Muy thai, Brazilian jujitsu and wing chun. I make sure to test my skills against these people because i know they have good spirit, in the ring that is. Most gong fu practitioners i know lack the spirit and confidence to use their skills. Its easy to beat them. A lot of people do not believe in gong fu thats a pity but i can understand why. The modern shaolin has wattered it down so thoroughly that today its hard to find any real skills, many do not teach any applications att all or sometimes just a little but no emphasis is put on the combat aspect so people lose faith in it. Tai chi is an excellent fighting style if you train it the right way but same goes for tai chi. Many tai chi and bagua masters turn them into martial dancing. They have the wrong aproach. Give me a tai chi technique and i can use it to break someones arm, but tai chi practitioners are seldom able to defend themselves thats a shame. Basically i believe that most real gong fu styles are great but there are to few real practitioners that can use it most gong fu students are not even interseted in using it because of their flawed view of it which can only be blaimed on those silly masters who do not promote it correctly or do not teach or know the real thing. It seams a lot of chinese hustlers travel abroad and call themselves gong fu masters or shaolin monks just to make money. I have seen a lot of that.
My xinyi is a rare type of xinyi a special shaolin branch mostly cept secret, very different from the other xinyis but with a lot in common. Very health promoting, chi building and combat effective. Combat requires warrior mindset if you're crazy enough you don't even need technique. Real gong fu practitioners know that a lot of gong fu styles including shaolin gong fu styles include deadly techniques! I mean stuff you really use to kill! No MMA or muy thai have or practise theese. MMA and Muythai practitioners are often self confident and able to use their skills but they are not as deadly or effektive as real gong fu- not a lot of people dare claim that but i do!

[michael289]

I agree with everything you just said. If I practiced boxing or Karate or collegiate wrestling, I could tell people: "yeah I practice xxxx or xxxxx", and most people would say: "that's cool" and they would mean it. But when you say "I practice kung fu," people look at you funny and sarcastically say: oh, don't mess with this guy, or they snicker and then play it off by saying "that's cool" but to them it's really a joke. And you've made a joke of yourself by telling them.

Gong fu is actually more efficient, more complete, far more deadly (if you take it to that extreme) and far far more vast than any or all the other martial arts. But modern society has labeled it a farse and a joke because they associate it with the likes of movie stars (and people think that most of what they see is camera tricks -ie. crouching tiger/hidden dragon with people floating through the air or that the moves are sped up -when in reality, they are slowed down) or they associate it with modern wushu people who do the art/dance crap, or they associate it with posers who don't really know kung fu but say they do to sound cool and then they get their ass kicked by somebody who doesn't know any martial art.

And you are definately right about lots of kung fu teachers actually being "snake-oil salesmen." Lots of guys teach kung fu but don't really know the internal mechanics that make it the effective art it is. They are teaching you the motions, but not the skills that make the motions work. They just teach what you could learn from mimicking an instructional video. They don't teach you what muscles to flex and when, which ones to relax or keep relaxed, what it should feel like when you execute a particular technique, etc. etc. And even when they really know the internal mechanics of gong fu, they don't teach it for combat, they teach it for health, or for a hobby, or for sport.

I live in Arkansas, a mostly rural state with only one major metropolis and it's not a very big one. I looked for genuine gong fu here for about 5 years before I found it. All I could do is learn the different histories and stories about the different gong fu styles and the shaolin temple. I found a shaolin long fist school and a vietnamese wing chun school and neither one of them knew anything of internal mechanics. Their gong fu was bull****. This summer, I was lucky enough to find a guy who has been learning shaolin gong fu since he was in college and he teaches it now. Most of his students take it instead of karate or TKD and they don't care about combat. When I came and explained to him my background and what I wanted to get out of it, he just lit up. He was thrilled to finally have a student who wanted to learn the combat application of gong fu. I was thrilled to have found what I was looking for.