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  • Is Master Wong really that good?

    I found this page of previews of instructional dvds by Master Wong who seems to have his school in the UK.


    http://www.masterwong-tv.com/home.html
    http://www.masterwongdvd.com/catalog/index.php

    On amazon UK these dvds get really enthusiastic reviews and most european mailorder sites sell them. So I wanted to know if it is really that good.

    anyone wants to comment on them? Anyone seen the actual dvds?

    I thought that these dvds, considering the price, look like a good buy. I myself have been training and teaching Shaolin for several years, practice tai chi chen for a couple a years and recently started win chung. This is to let you know from which point of view I'm looking at this.

    the Tai Chi Combat thing looks interesting to me because I never learned combat drills for Tai Chi, only form and Chin Na applications and I want my tai chi to be martial art and not only form. As for Win Chung I was looking for some instructionals as a reference anyway.

    Any advise or reference to other good titles would be great.

  • #2
    my comment would be...

    "De Plane! De Plane! DEE PLAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNE!"
    "Arhat, I am your father..."
    -the Dark Lord Cod

    Comment


    • #3
      arhat: 'my comment would be...

      "De Plane! De Plane! DEE PLAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNE!" ´


      I presume you refer to Herve Villechaize.... which really helps me a lot on my judgement of the instructional dvds....

      some comments on skill rather than on appearance would be nice

      Comment


      • #4
        You're looking for mature commentary on this website?

        LOL.... Welcome to the gang. You'll get used to us.
        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

        (more comments in my User Profile)
        russbo.com


        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Carona
          arhat: 'my comment would be...

          "De Plane! De Plane! DEE PLAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNE!" ´


          I presume you refer to Herve Villechaize.... which really helps me a lot on my judgement of the instructional dvds....

          some comments on skill rather than on appearance would be nice
          You presume correct sir! Well you are not quite the dull tack at all! you got the Herve reference so I think that tells you everything you need to know about Master Wong's DVD, skills, appearance, and all. come now carona. all you need do is take one cold hard look at those, and know you should enroll in a gun class...

          Maybe if you lived at the weather station on the arctic circle, but barring that, people have little to no excuse to not seek out good masters.
          "Arhat, I am your father..."
          -the Dark Lord Cod

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, you just type 'de plane, de plane' in google and you find out about Herve. I do am a dull tack because I didn't know who you referred to. Or maybe it's the fact that I am not living in the States so i don't see the same tvshows as you guys do. In fact I don't even have a television to watch those series. Or how Google helped me tricking you into believing I'm not as dull as dishwater. This is actually something you should take into consideration when reading posts by people who are not native English speakers, and therefor not US citizens. For me it' s ok if you want to judge based on my choice of vocabulary, but remember that I had to learn a foreign language to post on this forum. Imagine you posting on a forum in Dutch (my language). I once had to quote Stanley Kubrick and use the word reacharound to make someone understand that people who don't speak fluently english are not asdumb as he thought. I'm not taking this personal but I did see some posts by other non English speakers who were made fun of and didn't care to contribute anymore to the forum. Maybe loosing a lot of interesting info from these people...

            Let me make it clear that I am not looking for a teacher and I certainly do not pretend to learn a new style by watching dvds.

            I studied 5 years shaolin in Belgium with a teacher who he himself learned from Shi de ding ( Jiao Hong Bo), shi shi yong and other monks at the end of the eighties. Later we got visits from several monks and for example shi xing peng ( zhang li peng) stayed quite a while at our school before starting his own. I had several occasions to train with some monks myself. Sometimes we had guest teachers in kung fu (not shaolin i mean by this) as well. Then 3 years ago I moved to Spain and when I didn't find any teacher who seemed advanced/credible enough I was thinking of studying shaolin in China, but gave up on the idea after seeing numerous monks perform 'new' or 'shortened' versions of traditional forms that I had learned in Belgium. of all the places you'd expect to have to go for traditional kungfu... so why bother going to china and having to teach the full version of forms to the chinese teacher that's supposed to teach me, as happened to a fellow student of mine. So I'm travelling back and forth once in a while and still studying with those who seem fit and am teaching at the same time in Spain.

            As for Tai chi chen, my teacher is a direct disciple of Chen Shitong. ( Damn, that sounds too much like 'my dad is a police officer'type of childish nonsense). I studied like 3 years with him. He lives in Belgium and I moved to spain... same story as for shaolin.

            And when I mentioned I started Win Chung recently, it means that I'm going to clases twice a week since last summer.

            I just wanted to explain that I'm not the typical newbie who wants to learn fast without good instructor.

            So, to return to the subject: I was interested in the fact that this Master Wong does some combat drills using chen tai chi. And I wanted to have a reference for win chung if one day I want to look something up as I do for example with the Tagou encyclopedia (I do not learn forms from the book, just once in a while I look into it to see if a certain movement uses a palm or fist for example, when my memory plays tricks on me.)

            And one thing that made me consider buying this stuff ( not talking about gun courses) is this review on amazon UK I include here.

            http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/image.../stars-5-0.gifPeople who don't understand shouldn't comment, 26 Jul 2004
            Reviewer:combat (United Kingdom) - See all my reviewsMy name is Chen Lei, a former National Wushu Champions in China. As a Martial Arts teacher, I would like to give my respects and complements to Master Wong for his contributions on the development of Chinese Martial Arts, especially in the fighting aspect in Europe.Martial arts have always been about variety and diversity: different styles, different cultures, and different states. Individuals vary from one another in terms of body size, age, personality, and other vital respects. So everyone has his or her own styles of fighting and performing, as long as they follow the principle of each particular style, and emphasis on the essences of Chinese martial arts on self-defence, health, culture & arts.
            I must say that Master Wong has created a new way of Chinese fighting, which based on the principle and tradition of Chinese Martial Arts. His fighting skills are very effective in self-defence, as well as in the health benefits. Therefore it would be insensible for anyone who works in Chinese Martial Arts industry to criticise someone's style without truly understanding of Chinese Martial Arts.


            So could we start again on discussing this Master Wong and not by the way he dresses or does his presentations. I would like someone with win chung and tai chi chen background look at the techniques he uses and talk about those. I am not one of his students defending him. I just want to know if you think this would be wort buying. And if not recommend something that's worth buying by another author.


            And now for something completely different.

            Comment


            • #7
              I must say that Master Wong has created a new way of Chinese fighting, which based on the principle and tradition of Chinese Martial Arts. His fighting skills are very effective in self-defence, as well as in the health benefits. Therefore it would be insensible for anyone who works in Chinese Martial Arts industry to criticise someone's style without truly understanding of Chinese Martial Arts.
              Well, I don't kow about you guys, but, I certainly didn't understand that. Sounds like bullshit to my New York trained ears.

              Oh, and welcome to the gang Carona. Don't let Arhat bother you man, he's due for his Jamaica trip soon. He'll settle down again, lol.
              Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

              "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

              (more comments in my User Profile)
              russbo.com


              Comment


              • #8
                Carona, welcome!

                surely nobody here would like to take a pop at your use of english language, which is admirable given you clearly fooled the crew here!

                Also it seems to me that you know your martial arts.

                So we will cut throught the chase... I think Doc hit the nail on the head... the Chinese do seem to have a habit of making glib comments about each other's ability (its a form of back scratching), so you are right to be wary of these grand statements.

                There is a performance art and the traditional arts. Hengxuan performs for the crowd and chops his quans around... putting a crowd pleaser in here and another in there, but is quite open with me that he is bastardizing the traditional to please the Western audience. If you turn up to his classes, he only teaches Shaolin traditional, albeit in a way that is more attune to westerners' training needs. If a student doesn't accept that, then Hengxuan believes the student should find a different shifu.

                Of course most, when they start learning, only want to learn the show-off stuff... then usually pick up the bug and realise the value in the traditional forms... it takes time to make the transition, and the bulk in the west haven't gone through it yet. So the demand is for the modern / performance stuff so the teaching tends to supply the demand.

                There's a shortage of good shifus out there teaching the traditional stuff. Which part of Spain are you in? I have family down there, so Hengxuan will come visit some time in the next year or two, and if he likes it might come down there regularly so you could get a "fix" every once in a while if you are close by.

                Chicken

                Comment


                • #9
                  uuuhhhh...Car? It has nothing to do with your first, second, third, or even fourth language.

                  You asked for opinions of Master Wong, the uber sifu DVD, and apparently you felt like it was worth serious discussion.

                  In my first language opinion, it's horseshit.

                  2nd Language.
                  Caca.

                  3rd.
                  Cavallu Mierda.

                  4th
                  Pferd schiess.

                  5th
                  Merde Cheval.

                  6th
                  Bombaclaat *****hole horseshit
                  "Arhat, I am your father..."
                  -the Dark Lord Cod

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Carona
                    I'm not taking this personal but I did see some posts by other non English speakers who were made fun of and didn't care to contribute anymore to the forum. Maybe loosing a lot of interesting info from these people...
                    You mean BL? I agree she is a non english speaker and we make fun of her, but it sure as shit doesn't stop her from posting. Hell would have to literally freeze over.

                    Anyway, toughen up soldier, before vince calls you a whiny crybaby.
                    "Arhat, I am your father..."
                    -the Dark Lord Cod

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      well if your looking for an opinion from someone with wingchun experience i can tell you that in the little intro video where hes talking about bil gee i had no idea what he was talking about, but bil gee is all about learning to retake your centerline after someone has taken it from you, thats all i got from that intro video but from that alone i would say he didnt know what he was talking about in my opinion... and besides all that its impossible to learn wingchun without a real teacher, and besides that its impossible to learn wingchun without a really good teacher who truly understands it..

                      and i have never seen any good wing chun teacher that actually teaches wingchun and jkd, it doesnt make sence.. not to mention theres some jkd guys with like 5 - 9 year experience come to our school and get tossed around like nothing... if you got any questions about wing chun though let me know, even if i dont know or cant explain it properly ill call my sifu

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Nice to see some response.

                        Chicken: I live in Valencia on the mediterranean Coast. I liked what you said and it sounds like a great offer and whenever Hengquan comes to Spain you can notify me.

                        And while we are talking about Spain, could I get your opinions on Huang Aguilar who claims to be a shaolin warrior monk???? I thought there were no foreigners ever made monk, let alone warrior monk at shaolin...... He opened this new Temple of the ocean of tranquility or whatever. I'll look for a link to his webpage if anyone would want to comment.

                        Arrhat: I appreciate your response, at least it's clear what you think. And that's what I wanted, to hear people's opinions on Wong.
                        but I have taken the liberty to correct some of your foreign language skills

                        3rd.
                        Cavallu Mierda.
                        Italian????? merda di cavallo or Spanish??? mierda de caballo or Portugese maybe????? merda de cavalo

                        4th
                        Pferd schiess.

                        German???? pferdescheiβe

                        5th
                        Merde Cheval.
                        French??? merde de cheval
                        anyway I got the idea. You think it's horseshit, what it may very well be. To show my gratitude I' ll tell you what horseshit is in Dutch: paardestront.

                        I was talking about some posts I saw by some brazilian/portugese guy somewher on the mmaforum


                        Wu LongXin: Thanks for the feedback. Good to hear the opinion of someone who pratices win chung


                        Trying not to be a dull tack I included a reference to Monthy python's flying circus to my last post which nobody seems to have noticed up until now.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi guys,

                          On the kungfumagazine forum I found some comments on these dvds saying it was Pan Nam Win chung and I had no idea what they were talking about. So I started searched and it seems interesting.

                          Found an interesting site here
                          http://www.wingchunbakmei.com/pannam1.htm
                          and among others this video

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_geVJUH8xks

                          It's Pan Nam style Win Chung from a series produced by the sons of Pan Nam, so it should be pretty authentic.

                          I got curious and bought one of wong's DVDs that has all of the win chung forms on it and compared this video and Master Wong doing the biu jee form and found out they are identical. The exact same moves in the same order. The chinese guy is a bit faster and more fluid, but it's the exact same thing.

                          The main diference is that Master Wong presents his advertising clips spectacularly with adrenaline rushed music and he draws more attention to himself. The chinese do it soberly and with some nice traditional music in the background.

                          But bottom line is that it's the same thing. Using Arhat's words I would have to say horseshit is horseshit even if it's decorated with flowers. But it is also true that a flower is a flower even if it's been shitted on by a horse. You just have to hose it down to see it.

                          The DVD itself is a lot more sober than the advertising clips and what he says about the concepts of win chung on his DVD makes sense to me.

                          In the end I am pretty glad I looked past the spectacular advertising and got the DVD to judge it on content rather than appearances. even if it's not the same style as I am learning in class. I learned quite a few things about theory and concepts from this DVD and it also opened up my eyes and made me realize that Yip Man was not the only one on the planet to have taught decent Win Chung.

                          But I still appreciate the straight forward replies by Arhat

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Carona
                            Using Arhat's words I would have to say horseshit is horseshit even if it's decorated with flowers. But it is also true that a flower is a flower even if it's been shitted on by a horse. You just have to hose it down to see it.
                            I think the term would be "shat upon", instead of "shitted on". But, either way, it's not a pleasant thought.

                            Did Arhat really say that? I'm impressed. Very deep.
                            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                            (more comments in my User Profile)
                            russbo.com


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              He didn't really say all that.

                              He just said "Horseshit" but I wanted to use a metaphore with the same terminology.

                              I was doubting wether to shit in past tense was shitted or shit and now it turns out to be Shat, so that makes it a productive day, I finally learned how to use the word shit the right way.

                              Comment

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