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  • Demasco and Mattera (current issue, moved from forum archive)

    Wow. ****in hell, I just saw the new forum/library. Amazing man. But probably a lot of people don't know about it! Can you make a big message in the old forum saying we should go to the new one? And would it be possible to move the current 'other martial arts' discussion to the new one since we're in the middle of it?

    Thanks, great job
    Dave


    Following current issue copied from Forum Archive

    So what do people think about these guys? I noticed their on the cover of this months Black Belt Magazine. Their speaking about there "VAST" knowledge of shaolin weapons, and they state they are the FIRST American Shaolin disciples. So what do people think?
    Tsingtao




    I don't know what to think about them except if they're trying to gain profit from this then I hope they get what they want. But in truth there have been several foreigners to the temple (over the past 25 years)that have left with discipleship.
    At first it wasn't that widespread, but now it seems to be an often occurence.As far as their knowledge, your guess is as good as mine.
    Just remember, all true shaolin disciples are devoid of material needs. Especially fame and fortune.

    By the way, your beer is good.

    Han MacLeod




    I saw the article.

    It sucked.

    They are under Guolin, so why not go to him directly for info, why go to karate/hybrid disciples? I feel like these guys are a snub.

    $$$$$.

    Not Yongxin's brightest move, in my opinion.

    Arhat




    Can you get this article on the net?

    Lipster001




    Arhat,

    What do you mean they are under Guolin? Can you clarify that statement? Do you mean they train under him? Its too bad.... their only in it for personal gain. I can't believe Yongxin would have anything to do with them, given there track record.

    Does anyone know how the other monks/disciples feel about them?

    Lipster




    I don't know if its on line but if its not, its not worth putting up. The article did suck but what else would you expect from that magazine.

    Tsingtao




    Well, all I know is from what I have read in BB, and heard from others, and in one BB article DeMasco said he trained with Guolin. He went to Shaolin a few years back and there he 'demonstrated' his Shaolin kempo and revealed or understood Shaolin so well that Yong Xin proclaimed him as an 'ambassador,' and 'Shaolin Grandmaster' as follows:

    "During Steve DeMasco's 1997 visit to China, Head Abbot Shi Yongxin of the Shaolin Temple, presented Grand Master DeMasco with a signed and stamped certificate that recognized him as a Grand Master in the Shaolin Temple Martial Arts and as an honorable Master of The Shaolin Temple. Grand Master DeMasco is the first non-Asian to be recognized in this fashion and the first non-Asian representative of the Shaolin Temple in the world."

    In fact that article got me heated enough to want to write a letter to BB. I mean, they say he "....may become the most influential man in the Chinese martial art community of North America." CMAs should be screaming their heads off at a published statement like that. I mean, he teaches Karate. His Shaolin stuff that I have seen (in a book) was, in short, ri****ulous, a lot like that article. No chi.

    Something along those lines, anyways...my brother has a student who trained with DeMasco, and he also mentioned that he went to the monk in Flushing, which would be Guolin. But if he's a grandmaster and got an 'A' according to the certificate that's on his site, why is he training with Guolin, who is not a recognized grandmaster?

    I doubt any of the other monks know who he is, or would comment on him. They tend to simply smile and nod their heads when they are told about other masters. As to how Shi Guolin feels, I have no idea.

    http://www.ussdkarate.com/home.htm

    Arhat




    Yeah I've seen that article you mentioned. It looked to me as if he was trying to flaunt the fact that he trained with Guolin. From what I heard he paid a lot of money to earn that "A" and his title. I've also heard that he's got some "very close" contacts at that magazine, hense his videos and book deals. I've seen Demasco perform and he is somewhat "talented" when it comes to KARATE but I would say hes a Shaolin Master.

    From what I understand he is (was)the East coast united studios president and 90% of the east coast schools closed in the last year because the east coast org went bankrupt. Maybe all the orgs money went to yongxin. I heard the remaining east schools now fall under mattera. Too bad soooooooooo sad.

    Hey Doc what have you heard about in the shaolin circle about these guys?

    Tsingtao




    OK. This will be inflammatory, but the truth is the truth. Mr. Demasco called my Sifu (we were both located on L.I.) and tried to verbally throw his weight around and challenge my Sifu. Sifu Gus pointed out to him over the phone that he couldn't even pose correctly, that his Shaolin was a joke, and that any challenge would be welcome. Mr. Demasco couldn't back track fast enough, and spent several minutes kissing Gus' butt. We've seen his videos and in short, it's a joke. Bad Kempo masquerading as Shaolin where every technique ends with "a groin shot". Normally I'd leave well enough alone, but watching yet another American exploiting the Shaolin name to their own end is truly starting to get on my nerves. He sucks. If he ever reads this post and has a problem with it I'd be glad to be "held accountable" for my statements. He's a joke. His Shaolin is a joke and anything he says should be discarded. Just look at any picture, video or whatever of his "Shaolin" and it's clear that he has no idea what he's doing. To a martial is artist that has spent the better part of his life learning Kung Fu, and has the paper work and approval of a true master which qualifies him to teach real Kung Fu, someone like Demasco who is perpetuating a fraud is the worst kind of leech. A few weeks in Shaolin spread out over a couple of years hardly qualifies anyone to be an "authority" on Shaolin.

    -Jeff




    Sorry I made a typo. " I've seen Demasco perform and he is somewhat "talented" when it comes to KARATE but I would say hes a Shaolin Master. "

    I meant I wouldnt say hes a Shaolin master

    Tsingtao




    In my opinion, this was not Yong Xin's brightest moment...this last article was perhaps the weakest ever. I mean the pictures are pretty embarassing. Also he has a book out too.

    Jeff, what was DeMasco calling up about?

    I am going to write that letter. Maybe BB just does not know.

    Arhat




    I've got some to say on this issue, but, fortunately, I've been horribly busy getting the new forum ready to go online. This is an important thread, not because of the people that are involved, but because of the concepts that are presented within.

    I'll move this thread to the new forum, and will answer it there. Should have it online in a few days.... (And you WILL love it)

    Just for giggles and shits, as to what I think of all of this, read this:

    http://x.russbo.com/cgi-bin/discus/s...st=840#POST840

    You know that guy doc, he's got some pretty smart things to say. Oh, so every once in a while...

    Humored,
    doc
    Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

    "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

    (more comments in my User Profile)
    russbo.com



  • #2
    So, anyone have anything to add to this. I've just got introduced to this issue not too long ago. Granted I'm still "formulating" an opinion on this I think it could be a case of the same old same old as far the exploitation of the name shaolin.
    They are under Guolin
    If this is the case, what is there association with him, I don't think they are deciples, are they?
    practice wu de

    Comment


    • #3
      I've been told that Demasco spent some time training with Guolin. How extensive, I don't know. In my opinion, from looking at his "Shaolin" videos, that were widely advertised by Black Belt magazine, he had better spend more time there.

      Also remember that Guolin is close with Yongxin.

      The whole concept of "there's a new sheriff in town" in Shaolin, has changed a lot of things. Especially with regard to the older monk masters, who have moved on and left Shaolin. Just to give you an example of this absolutely ludicrous behavior, I've heard rumors from people who are associated with Mattera's training system, that Kevin (my gong fu training partner and fellow teacher, and an ex-instructor of Mattera's) is associated with "renegade monks", in our little school we're starting here.

      Shi De Cheng a "renegade monk". Now that's a laugh.

      But, then again, there's a "new sheriff in town". And remember, whoever runs the country, writes (and rewrites) its history...

      doc
      Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

      "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

      (more comments in my User Profile)
      russbo.com


      Comment


      • #4
        Not that I've spent a lot of time with Guolin, but I studied there for a few years and I NEVER saw Demasco or Mattera ever there. Never at a classes or performances or even buddhist services. I do know that when Demasco and Mattera left the Villari organization they pulled the same stuff trying discredit the other instructors and put down the other schools that didn't go a long with them. They are solely in it for the fame and fortune and maybe someday Yongxin will see it. I think at some point Yongxin and Guolin will see where these "masters" priorities are and either go along with them or kick them to the curb and have nothing to do with them. I do think its pretty funny that the only magazine that will even mention them is Black belt. Thats got to be the worst mag out there. Every page is either an ad about getting your black belt using home study or article about some belt factory.

        Doc,

        How do the monks/people you speak with feel about these guys?


        Tsingtao

        Comment


        • #5
          By the way has anyone noticed Mattera and Demasco are trying to sell cardio karate videos.

          Check it out @ American Bunkai


          Watch out Tae Bo

          Demasco's in town


          Comment


          • #6
            Bunkai? Isn't that a Japanese term??? LOL

            Damn, and I thought that these guys were purely Shaolin grandmasters. Funny, I never heard the word "bunkai" spoken at Shaolin.

            In fact, any time I tried to show the monks that I've trained with, some of the things that I've learned in kempo (through the same school system, and which, I might add, I thoroughly enjoyed during my ten years there; it is good kempo training), or, even, some of the material that I've learned in Seidokan (taught by Eddy Schumacher, who teaches the stuff in purely traditional manner, which I thoroughly enjoy), none of the monks recognized any of the forms. Nor anything that might come close. (I was looking for historical similarities at the time).

            As for Yongxin "seeing it", I doubt it. You have to understand Yongxin's motives, and what he's all about. Now I won't claim to be an expert on anything Yongxin, but I've watched his various moves concerning the temple over the past few years, and I don't see him gravitating away from these guys, at least, not until they possibly become an embarrassment to him, or, until Yongxin finds that he has no need for them anymore. Hey, it's just like any other relationship, business, personal or otherwise. (Supposedly, this organization is inviting Yongxin to the US this summer, to appear at one of their black belt tests). Now, granted, one thing that I've come to respect about Yongxin, is his ability to change. For some ungodly reason, his actions seem to follow discussions that are seen on the net. In fact, I've come to be terribly humored about how major issues in the past have gotten talked about here on russbo.com, and how different "responses" are eventually evidenced in Shaolin. The destruction of the village, and the re-emphasis on gong fu focus in the temple are two major issues that come to mind. Don't give up on Yongxin; he's a smart one, a terribly smart one, one who has "eyes" here and there. Eventually, he may realize what he has done.

            As for some of the monk's feelings about the new grandmasters of the Shaolin temple, the ones that I have spoken with, (who shall remain nameless, damn, one of them has already spent time in jail over there in Shaolin), no one thinks anything of it. Typical monk response; don't like it, don't say anything. I can respect that. But, you can read their faces, they always send you signals with their facial expressions and laughter. They got a chance to view some of Demasco's "Shaolin" tapes, as I had brought some with me, which, btw, were recently heavily advertised in Black Belt (which, if you haven't noticed, appears to receive some significant advertising revenue from Demasco et al). I've been told by reasonable sources that the tapes were not received in a positive fashion. To them, Shi Su Xi is the grandmaster. The rest of this, as I have seen it first hand, appears to just humor them.

            The story continues. It's going to be interesting to see where this ends up next.

            doc
            Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

            "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

            (more comments in my User Profile)
            russbo.com


            Comment


            • #7
              Just met some of the underlings of Demasco (actually I've known them just kinda realized). Asked them about some of the issues at hand, all they wanted to talk about was the "new schools." They are flying these guys around the world to start up new schools. I talked with my shirfu about them during a Chinese New Year celebration, it was funny, he had some stories of one of the guys when he first came to the Denver area.....
              From what I've seen though, there kempo has some really solid technique.
              practice wu de

              Comment


              • #8
                Flying who around to open new schools? As I've said before somewhere in this forum or maybe somewhere else, Demasco is "somewhat talented" when it comes to Kempo. However I know a lot of people who are talented in Kempo, but that doesn't make them Shaolin masters. I trained in the kempo system (Villari branch) for many years and enjoyed it very much. I've made some very close friends in the system and I'm very grateful to them because I've earned a very solid base from the system. As for the system, it is a pretty solid system. I believe the system like many other systems has gotten watered down over the years and has now become more of a belt factory then a self defense system. I think if you look at any Americanized system you'll see the same thing, they all follow the trends. First it was cardio kickboxing, then tae bo, then bjj, and now shaolin. United studios even was pushing a program for flight attendents/pilots after the 9/11 thing. They'll do anything to make money and become famous. Thats what there doing with shaolin, and hopefully people will see through them.


                The one thing that bothers me is why does Yongxin even bother with them (Dam ass co & Company) when there are so many monks in the US? Is it because they already have a lot of existing schools and Yongxin looks at it as a avenue to branch out? It just doesn't make sense. Whatever it is I'm sure money's got a lot to do with it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hey, I've studied with these guys for a while, and while I was there, there was no Shaolin Gong Fu in their system as I've recently learned it at the temple. In my opinion, all they are trying to do is build publicity about themselves. They are not the only Shaolin deciples in the US. So what's up with that? Why do they have to say that? Is it a confidence thing? They have made a name for themselves in the Kempo world, and they are very good at it. Their business concepts are good too. Why this now? Kempo isn't Shaolin!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Kevin,

                    I agree 100% with you. Everything and anything they do is about themselves and publicity. Their business CONCEPTS are good but their business ETHICS are horrible. These guys have been to court many times because of their ethics.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I started a thread on the archive about a year ago on this very topic. I even used a picture of our "friend" Demasco to illustrate my point, i called the thread "American Sifu"

                      http://x.russbo.com/discus/messages/...tml?1020272475

                      Jeff

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Wha''s this about going to court? Just curious.
                        Experienced Community organizer. Yeah, let's choose him to run the free world. It will be historic. What could possibly go wrong...

                        "You're just a jaded cynical mother****er...." Jeffpeg

                        (more comments in my User Profile)
                        russbo.com


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I've been in the org for a while and my instructors were VERY close with Demasco. They've told me a lot of first hand info about him and his business ethics. We've also had a few of his instructors come to the school with stories about how they were screwed over by the org and what they had to do about it. I've heard everything from sex to drugs being sold out of the studios, to just crazy price hikes accross the boards.

                          I don't train much in the Villari org anymore but I've gotten very close with my instructors (they've been teaching me since I was a child and I respect them greatly) and have made a lot of very close friends at their studio. Not to mention I met my wife there. To me there more family then anything. I still like to go in once and awhile and do combos and stuff but I've focused my training more towards Shaolin Kung Fu at this point in my life. I'm very open minded when it comes to the martial arts but when these guys who are only in it for the fame start this shit it drives me crazy. The only American Shaolin desciples !!!!!!! Give me a brake. I dont care what they call themselves, to me their a joke.


                          Tsing

                          Take note the things I've said are based on what I've HEARD and may not be fact. I fully believe them based on the relationship I have with the sources.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This is off of www.ussd.com


                            United Studios of Self Defense Presents the Shaolin Monks of China
                            This spectacular performance, training seminar and banquet will feature the 33rd Abbot to the Shaolin Temple in China, Great Master Shi Yongxin along with his personally selected delegation of Shaolin Monks. This event will be held at the Anaheim Convention Center, August 23, 2003 through August 24, 2003.

                            Details to be announced.
                            practice wu de

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Forum Users,

                              www.Shaolinsecrets.com is translating Shaolin Wugong Book Series.

                              Are they aware of the person who was responsible of writing these series ?

                              Is their work proof readed by Shaolin Masters or only edited by Shaolin Temples curent Abbot(With all respect to Shaolin Abbot Shi Yun Shin) ?

                              Comment

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