Asians "Saving Face" ?

[Steve]

A few situations have come up lately that I don’t understand with a couple different people and myself Vs. (Chinese, Japanese and Thai), the stories may be told at another time, but why is it so important for Asians to “Save Face” and not give in, than just accept blame, make everyone happy and move on?

[doc]

Funny you should ask...

[LeiYunFat]

I guess it lies in the upbringing. I don't have much of a problem with accepting blame for my mistakes, but my mom sure does. And my grammy. They are friggin nuts. Then again, they are women...

[master splinter]

its all about honor. us asians think were all samurai.

[Steve]

I understand the part about honor, but if you see that they obviously did or are doing something stupid and everyone around them knows it. What do you gain by not facing reality and handle the problems? They are just lying to themselves. I don't get it.

[LeiYunFat]

Ugh, I know how you feel. It's the culture, I guess. I get PISSED at my family sometimes. They don't even want to hear anything you have to say about them being wrong. Ever. My mom turns a deaf ear and my grandma laughs at you. My dad is better though. I think it's cause he spent only about 1/5 of his life in that sort of enviroment.

Now showing affection, that's another story. Same principle, though.

[pazman]

It's been my experience that 'saving face' always means apologizing, even when there is little or even no fault. Of course, that's in Japan, where everything is cute and cuddly. One thing that many foreigners note when they first come here is the frequency of three words they hear most often: arigato, sumimasen, gomennasai. Two of those are apologies.

Steve, sometimes our concepts of cultural norms do not fit all of the time...it probably has more to do with communication and stubbornness. 'Asshole' really is a universal concept.

[Steve]

An Apology is all I want, stubbornness and stupidity is what I am getting.

[pazman]

I guess it hinges on how much embarassment they expect to receive. This is where the whole communication thing comes in handy.

During my bouncing days, I've seen lifelong feuds ended in a few beers' time. Give them a situation where they can lower their barriers a bit and tell them how little embarressment they'll actually get.

[onesp1ng]

Steve, from my point of view, and especially because it's a kind of culturally based phenomenom, it really is quite complex. let me think a bit ...

g

[dogchow108]

I think this depends on how you apporach it. What do we really mean by "saving face" and in practice, how is it different with Asian cultures than it is with "Western" ones. In the end, its about keeping a good reputation. I dont really see how its all that different from us.

[doc]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you dog. Read the Face ARTICLE.

I've got more to say in there also. Much more.

Soon.

[dogchow108]

I'll be waiting! You better not disappoint me...

[SongshanMonk]

my two cents....

heh....well I think asians have a lotl of pride.....lots of pride. So they say westerners are arrogant huh?? It's rare now a days to even find a non asian person admit guilt or wrong doing. But to take a shot at the answer I just think that's the asian tradition. Don't take it personal.

[mortal]

Exactly it is all about pride and ego.